Fire Matt LaFleur

[adambr2]

OK yeah I also forget that in addition to MLF missing that XP and short FG, and those blocks when he was playing LT, he also failed to get that snap off leading to that delay of game penalty, THEN he was in at center he hurt his leg when we were out of timeouts leading to a 10 second runoff.. what a bum!!

Can we just get a mannequin to be our head coach, then? If a head coach can never be accountable for anything that happens on the field unless they were physically participating, it doesn’t seem to matter who the HC is then, they can’t be blamed.

 

[rmontro]

Can we just get a mannequin to be our head coach, then? If a head coach can never be accountable for anything that happens on the field unless they were physically participating, it doesn’t seem to matter who the HC is then, they can’t be blamed.

Compare the fire the Bears had toward the end to ours. If there's one thing Ben Johnson has accomplished, it's been to put that attitude into the Bears. We looked like we were just waiting for the blade to drop.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Unfortunately it isn't just a ST issue with discipline and dumb penalties. We see these problems on O + D. :-(

Nixon is the poster child for dumb penalties, especially needless and just plain stupid personal fouls. He seems to be good for at least one/game, killing momentum for the Packers or creating it for an opponent.

I don't see any reason to keep Nixon. I know he has been surprisingly good at PBUs, but not enough to keep him. He is a greater liability than asset, IMO.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Sounds like just type of HC that can bring a different kind of culture to this team. That would be a welcome change. A breath of fresh air.

Remember all the Chip Kelly hype? Not many college coaches have turned that success into NFL success. Coaching kids trying to make a name for themselves is completely different from coaching multi-millionaire adults.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If your LT is having problems blocking edge rushers then why in the hell didn't MLF make the adjustment with a TE or RB helping Walker out? Why were the communication issues not fixed on the spot? These are examples of the in-game issues Matt has in games all season. It doesn't appear he has a plan B if things go south.

While I agree with your post and a few others that have pointed out adjustments by the coaching staff should have been made, I also think some are intentionally ignoring that players mistakes contributed to the loss. Mistakes that were made before and after adjustments.

Don't get me wrong, I want Bisaccia gone, but it would be silly for me to say that Bisaccia is directly responsible for McManus's 3 missed kicks. I also think the Packer offense would perform better with a dedicated OC calling the plays, but that doesn't mean that players still won't make mistakes.

Much like the first loss against the Bears, this loss was a team loss, one that every player and every coach should view as a sign that they could do better.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sad Walker flubbed on the big stage. I figured he was a sure departure in FA that would be missed.

I would be fine with resigning Walker, but not at the expense of a solid starting LT, which I think some team will offer him. I am not excited about Morgan taking over for Walker either. LT, Center and OL depth will need to be addressed in the offseason.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If you don't think MLF wouldn't get another job you are just blindly hating on him.

My guess, MLF's agent has already been approached by teams that would hire Matt and said agent will be using this as leverage in discussions over Matt's new contract and increase in pay, if the Packers want him to keep coaching.

 

[rick1255]

The PolICY family are agressive, Ed's father, Carmen had just about the same situation with George Seifert in S.F. Seifert quit because the crap Carmen pulled, Good little read if you look it up.
Also, Carmen was the main drive to get rid of Montana for Young, so Love may not be safe either. The only way for Ed to be on level to an owner is to be the Packers president. He had a plan, he worked that plan and now he is there.
Ed has 12 years to leave his mark onthe Packers and the NFL. Don't sell his ego short, there will be a time when the will be known as Ed PolICY's Green Bay Packers.

 

[rdawsoniii]

Had a 7th team not been added, the Packers would have missed the playoffs the past 3 years (and would be in the midst of a 4 year playoff drought).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Cignetti has only been at IU for 2 years? Damn that is a turnaround, and one I would think impossible for a small-market Big 10 school. If it can work at Indiana, why not Wisconsin?

It would definitely work for Wisconsin, if a Mark Cuban like UW alum would match Cubans donations to the Hoosiers.

 

[rdawsoniii]

My guess, MLF's agent has already been approached by teams that would hire Matt and said agent will be using this as leverage in discussions over Matt's new contract and increase in pay, if the Packers want him to keep coaching.

Then let him walk. The Packers should not fall victim to that tactic.

 

[rdawsoniii]

The PolICY family are agressive, Ed's father, Carmen had just about the same situation with George Seifert in S.F. Seifert quit because the crap Carmen pulled, Good little read if you look it up.
Also, Carmen was the main drive to get rid of Montana for Young, so Love may not be safe either. The only way for Ed to be on level to an owner is to be the Packers president. He had a plan, he worked that plan and now he is there.
Ed has 12 years to leave his mark onthe Packers and the NFL. Don't sell his ego short, there will be a time when the will be known as Ed PolICY's Green Bay Packers.

Ed may or may not be as aggressive as his dad. The son isn’t always like the father.

 

[mradtke66]

I am not excited about Morgan taking over for Walker either.

I'm willing to be cautiously optimistic here. He struggled at RG, but his natural position is LT and he has looked much better at tackle.

LT, Center and OL depth will need to be addressed in the offseason.

Center is probably fine between Monk and Rhyan (assuming he's re-signed, of course). Our depth looked poor as the season went on because we were using our depth. Our starting C went on IR, our preferred starting RG failed, and then our starting RT missed the last several games of the season.

A starting group of Morgan, Banks, Rhyan, Belton, Tom should be solid.

Kinnard is a RFA and cheap. He has value as the 6th OL/TE for short yardage and the right-side backup. Monk is your backup center. Lecitus Smith is your backup guard. Try to find a backup LT in the draft. Add in the various 2nd year players currently on the roster making a jump and you've got your 9-10 guys.

 

[Magooch]

A couple of random tidbits I've been thinking about. Not really trying to push one direction or the other, just some things to consider I guess...

- Some of our most important players, guys like Parsons, Kraft, Tom, Wyatt, etc are likely going to be out to start the season. If we bring in an entirely new coaching staff, how does that impact their returns? It's one thing to get back up to game-speed, it's another thing to do that AND come back into a new system with no real live reps.

- I'm not sure how long this current "window" is going to be open for. Not a cap wizard by any means but it looks like from my amateur view we should start to feel some more crunch in '27 and beyond until the potential '29 media deal kicks in. There will probably need to be some re-tooling after next season anyways.
You can take that either way...you might suggest we should run it back and maintain continuity for one more year before taking our licks the next year. You could also look at it and say we've got those aforementioned guys set to miss time already, a cap crunch possibly incoming, a small "window"...maybe you just rip off the bandaid and take a down year in '26 to completely reset.

- It seems far-fetched but could there really be another team involved, like a trade or something? I'm not sure why there would be so little "movement" and basically radio silence otherwise. By all accounts the team wants to continue with LaFleur so what's the hold up? Are they in a spot where they're not on the same page regarding money, but not so far apart that it's pointless? Do they just not like the idea of the "optics" of announcing an extension right now? (Or, alternatively, was the plan to extend but upon hearing widespread fan/media pushback they're reconsidering?) Even if it is a disagreement about money, I don't think anyone really gains leverage by drawing it out. Maybe both parties do want to extend and are roughly in agreement on compensation but not yet totally aligned on some additional terms/stipulations (assistant staff, responsibilities, etc)

 

[adambr2]

My guess, MLF's agent has already been approached by teams that would hire Matt and said agent will be using this as leverage in discussions over Matt's new contract and increase in pay, if the Packers want him to keep coaching.

Ed Policy: “That’s fair, but here is our counterpoint.” (Turns on TV and Al Michaels says, “we’re about to kick off to start the second half, the Packers will receive first.”)

 

[El Guapo]

It would be great if we could trade coaches with the Steelers - they get LaFleur and and we get Tomlin. The real problem/opportunity in that scenario is that Tomlin would have to find a new offensive coordinator for the Packers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A starting group of Morgan, Banks, Rhyan, Belton, Tom should be solid

I'd disagree with it being "solid", without improvement from 4 of those 5. I am also not really sold on Rhyan at center, not to mention we don't know what it will cost to keep him for 2026 and beyond?

The Packer OL needs to get better at run blocking and I don't know it if is conditioning or what, but as a game goes on, they seem to get worse.

 

[gopkrs]

My guess, MLF's agent has already been approached by teams that would hire Matt and said agent will be using this as leverage in discussions over Matt's new contract and increase in pay, if the Packers want him to keep coaching.

I guess then someone will offer a trade

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Then let him walk. The Packers should not fall victim to that tactic.

You mean the tactic used by most agents for both players and coaches? When demand exceeds supply, simple economics dictates that prices go up.

If the Packers fire MLF, they will have to replace him. Are they only going to go after people that aren't wanted by other teams?

 

[OldSchool101]

Had a 7th team not been added, the Packers would have missed the playoffs the past 3 years (and would be in the midst of a 4 year playoff drought).

It’s an interesting argument.
I think the most impressive thing for me is that we DID qualify as that added 7th seed and in 2023-24 and we did make an improvement off of our Rodgers led 8-9 ending in 2022.

I don’t think anyone felt at the time that GB “got lucky” in 2023 if that’s what you’re arguing? I would argue against that and I’d exclude 2023. If we’re being honest with ourselves I think 2023 was NOT considered a failure at the time nor should it now be switched to “failure”. We did have some surprising success in 2023 by besting Dallas on the road and going toe to toe with a really good 49ers team in their house. If we recall we were winning 21-16 in the 4th Quarter when our Kicker shanked a very doable 41 yard FG, one that would’ve put us up 24-16. with 6 minutes left. It took SF49ers 5+ minutes to score a TD on that following drive. Which would’ve at best would’ve been a Tie if they made the 2-pt conversion or a GB win. Yet even a tie GB had the ball and now only needed FG and didn’t have to protect the clock as much with 1:09 and timeouts. That Divisional game was either OT or a Packer Win if we simply make a 41 yard FGA.
Sound familiar?!

So I’ll give you the 2024,2025. In 2024 we shouldn’t have risked a Kick return on play #1. Take it at the 35 and keep the crowd out of the game. The rule change that year allowed a +10 yard penalty on Philly for kicking into paint. We obviously either didn’t discuss that or we didn’t care imo. Mistake #1 in an opponent stadium. Do NOT give that crowd any reason to get raucous. ESPECIALLY on the 1st possession which is when players are just hyped. Settle it down. Pretty bad when a guy coming novice fan can figure that out. Our coach thinks he’s so smart he outsmarted himself.

I’ll stand by my opinion because I watched it and felt it opening drive Q3. Due to playing “not to lose” UNTIL we realized Chicago wasn’t going away. You don’t run up the gut on 2nd n 10 in 3rd quarter after Chicago stopped us multiple times in the middle. It was the antithesis of the game flow. Don’t worry about the clock there it’s too early in the game to shut it down by implementing a delayed handoff for MINUS ZERO into their strength. We were having incredible success throwing the ball against a middling Bears secondary and we tried to get cute right into a cute 3rd n 10 deep in our own territory. That play was the beginning of a momentum shift into Chicago favor that never ended. Once again we allowed the crowd momentum opening the half when everyone just got hyped by a halftime speech. Not the time to go to an A gap on a delay handoff. Do something inventive for once. The only thing you could NOT do was start 3 n out in our very first drive in Q3 after failing to get into FG range on the last possession in Q2 half possession after trying to get 20 yards when we needed 6 or 8
Let’s be honest 55 yards in that weather was like our previous contest trying at 64 yards or whatever. It’s a ruse. We just watched a Bears kicker from 51 nearly hit the goal post bottom and he’s a dang good Kicker.

Btw. Josh Jacobs on 4 preceding Runs between the Tackles? In Q2?
0 yards
0 yards
0 yards
0 yards

Let’s call a -2 into the Guard on a delayed handoff into? The middle?? Really ? On 2nd 10? While their D is fresh to open the Q3? You couldn’t draw up anything inventive during halftime to jump start us. That should’ve been a 2-minute drill and I said that during the game. Full attack mode!
Instead we had them on their heels and instead of “full charge ahead” we pulled a Civil War Union General “Little McClellan” move because we got complacent on the retreating enemy. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now.

 

[mradtke66]

I'd disagree with it being "solid", without improvement from 4 of those 5.

If we're going to pick on a coach, I have to look to Luke Butkus. I see more good than bad with all of our top 6 or 7, but some of the technique lapse suggests to me that the he needs to focus on some stuff.

Tom is great, no issues. Belton was a rookie tossed into the fire and plays angry. I'm excited for his progression. Rhyan I think would do well to be able to enter camp with the confidence that he's number one on the depth chart and he's not splitting snaps with Morgan.

Banks isn't a great pass protector, but he's servicible. It doesn't always show up in the running stats, but he has good feet and knows how to get to the second level. He's harder to judge unless you sit and stare a lot. We don't normally lose because due to his guy.

Morgan is the question mark.

I am also not really sold on Rhyan at center,

I hear this from others and to be honest, I'm not sure why. No one seems to be able to point to a deficiency that he has or a mistake that has hurt us at center. To my eye, the double teams are much improved with him over Jenkins and he's better at get a look at the defense before shotgun snapping.

not to mention we don't know what it will cost to keep him for 2026 and beyond?

Thankfully, the league really under values centers. 10th in the league is 7M per year, or 36% of what Banks is getting paid. Rhyan is going to be cheap.

The Packer OL needs to get better at run blocking and I don't know it if is conditioning or what, but as a game goes on, they seem to get worse.

Something isn't right, but I think it's more that we struggle to run when the other team knows we need to. Some of that is personnel, but I'm more angry at our backup TEs. And I'd really to see if we could fit a true fullback on the roster. Some of that is play design.

 

[AKCheese]

A couple of random tidbits I've been thinking about. Not really trying to push one direction or the other, just some things to consider I guess...

- Some of our most important players, guys like Parsons, Kraft, Tom, Wyatt, etc are likely going to be out to start the season. If we bring in an entirely new coaching staff, how does that impact their returns? It's one thing to get back up to game-speed, it's another thing to do that AND come back into a new system with no real live reps.

- I'm not sure how long this current "window" is going to be open for. Not a cap wizard by any means but it looks like from my amateur view we should start to feel some more crunch in '27 and beyond until the potential '29 media deal kicks in. There will probably need to be some re-tooling after next season anyways.
You can take that either way...you might suggest we should run it back and maintain continuity for one more year before taking our licks the next year. You could also look at it and say we've got those aforementioned guys set to miss time already, a cap crunch possibly incoming, a small "window"...maybe you just rip off the bandaid and take a down year in '26 to completely reset.

- It seems far-fetched but could there really be another team involved, like a trade or something? I'm not sure why there would be so little "movement" and basically radio silence otherwise. By all accounts the team wants to continue with LaFleur so what's the hold up? Are they in a spot where they're not on the same page regarding money, but not so far apart that it's pointless? Do they just not like the idea of the "optics" of announcing an extension right now? (Or, alternatively, was the plan to extend but upon hearing widespread fan/media pushback they're reconsidering?) Even if it is a disagreement about money, I don't think anyone really gains leverage by drawing it out. Maybe both parties do want to extend and are roughly in agreement on compensation but not yet totally aligned on some additional terms/stipulations (assistant staff, responsibilities, etc)

I don’t think you can say because nothing has happened a few days after the end of the season “feet are dragging” … I could see this taking until after the Super Bowl although I think it will be resolved sooner. Hopefully Policy does not give the tiniest crap what fans or the media think. Have you ever listened to the inane questions many reporters ask after a game? (I’m suprised more coaches and players tolerate it w/o mocking them), and most fans are even dumber (bless their hearts). The goal is to see net improvements to the tesm regarding the players we lose to free agency vs the ones we gain via free agency and the draft… That’s Gute’s job. Then hope the injuries we suffer next year (yes there will be injuries) are less impactful than this year. Given losing Kraft, Parsons, Wyatt, Jenkins… I think odds are that SHOULD happen. We are in good position for next year, regardless of what the bar stool gloom and doom crowd says over and over and over agsin

 

[rdawsoniii]

You mean the tactic used by most agents for both players and coaches? When demand exceeds supply, simple economics dictates that prices go up.

If the Packers fire MLF, they will have to replace him. Are they only going to go after people that aren't wanted by other teams?

You’re right….its a common tactic and understandable after a player/coach has performed well. Not so much after a year in which the Packers choked multiple games away (including 2 to the same team, one of which was a playoff game), and ending the season on a 5 game losing streak. Not to mention many fans clamoring for Matt to be fired.

Matt’s agent doesn’t seem to have much leverage for a big raise and extension, IMO.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If we're going to pick on a coach, I have to look to Luke Butkus. I see more good than bad with all of our top 6 or 7, but some of the technique lapse suggests to me that the he needs to focus on some stuff.

Tom is great, no issues. Belton was a rookie tossed into the fire and plays angry. I'm excited for his progression. Rhyan I think would do well to be able to enter camp with the confidence that he's number one on the depth chart and he's not splitting snaps with Morgan.

Banks isn't a great pass protector, but he's servicible. It doesn't always show up in the running stats, but he has good feet and knows how to get to the second level. He's harder to judge unless you sit and stare a lot. We don't normally lose because due to his guy.

Morgan is the question mark.



I hear this from others and to be honest, I'm not sure why. No one seems to be able to point to a deficiency that he has or a mistake that has hurt us at center. To my eye, the double teams are much improved with him over Jenkins and he's better at get a look at the defense before shotgun snapping.



Thankfully, the league really under values centers. 10th in the league is 7M per year, or 36% of what Banks is getting paid. Rhyan is going to be cheap.



Something isn't right, but I think it's more that we struggle to run when the other team knows we need to. Some of that is personnel, but I'm more angry at our backup TEs. And I'd really to see if we could fit a true fullback on the roster. Some of that is play design.

I'm not a fan of Butkus. First, the guy wasn't even a good player in the NFL to begin with. Now that isn't to say that he can't coach, but lets look at that. If you look at his NFL career path in coaching it is really underwhelming. In 2007 he started with the Bears as their Offensive assistant and assistant OL coach. Instead of typing it all out, here it is, keep an eye on his progression/degression:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

I honestly wasn't that impressed with the job that Stenavich did before Butkus either and he got promoted to Offensive Coordinator. That move also is a real head scratcher for me.

Ultimately, the assistant coaches are the responsibility of the HC, Matt LaFleur. This might be Matt's other strike for me, I don't think he sees weaknesses and failures within himself or his coaching staff. If Matt is retained, his first move should be to give up play calling, I doubt he does that. After that decision, he should fire Bisaccia. Then he should find a new OC and a new OL coach.

Basically, if Matt is retained and Hafley moves on, Matt should do thorough evaluation of his coaching staff and fire the weak links.

 

[rdawsoniii]

It’s an interesting argument.
I think the most impressive thing for me is that we DID qualify as that added 7th seed and in 2023-24 and we did make an improvement off of our Rodgers led 8-9 ending in 2022.

I don’t think anyone felt at the time that GB “got lucky” in 2023 if that’s what you’re arguing? I would argue against that and I’d exclude 2023. If we’re being honest with ourselves I think 2023 was NOT considered a failure at the time nor should it now be switched to “failure”. We did have some surprising success in 2023 by besting Dallas on the road and going toe to toe with a really good 49ers team in their house. If we recall we were winning 21-16 in the 4th Quarter when our Kicker shanked a very doable 41 yard FG, one that would’ve put us up 24-16. with 6 minutes left. It took SF49ers 5+ minutes to score a TD on that following drive. Which would’ve at best would’ve been a Tie if they made the 2-pt conversion or a GB win. Yet even a tie GB had the ball and now only needed FG and didn’t have to protect the clock as much with 1:09 and timeouts. That Divisional game was either OT or a Packer Win if we simply make a 41 yard FGA.
Sound familiar?!

So I’ll give you the 2024,2025. In 2024 we shouldn’t have risked a Kick return on play #1. Take it at the 35 and keep the crowd out of the game. The rule change that year allowed a +10 yard penalty on Philly for kicking into paint. We obviously either didn’t discuss that or we didn’t care imo. Mistake #1 in an opponent stadium. Do NOT give that crowd any reason to get raucous. ESPECIALLY on the 1st possession which is when players are just hyped. Settle it down. Pretty bad when a guy coming novice fan can figure that out. Our coach thinks he’s so smart he outsmarted himself.

I’ll stand by my opinion because I watched it and felt it opening drive Q3. Due to playing “not to lose” UNTIL we realized Chicago wasn’t going away. You don’t run up the gut on 2nd n 10 in 3rd quarter after Chicago stopped us multiple times in the middle. It was the antithesis of the game flow. Don’t worry about the clock there it’s too early in the game to shut it down by implementing a delayed handoff for MINUS ZERO into their strength. We were having incredible success throwing the ball against a middling Bears secondary and we tried to get cute right into a cute 3rd n 10 deep in our own territory. That play was the beginning of a momentum shift into Chicago favor that never ended. Once again we allowed the crowd momentum opening the half when everyone just got hyped by a halftime speech. Not the time to go to an A gap on a delay handoff. Do something inventive for once. The only thing you could NOT do was start 3 n out in our very first drive in Q3 after failing to get into FG range on the last possession in Q2 half possession after trying to get 20 yards when we needed 6 or 8
Let’s be honest 55 yards in that weather was like our previous contest trying at 64 yards or whatever. It’s a ruse. We just watched a Bears kicker from 51 nearly hit the goal post bottom and he’s a dang good Kicker.

Btw. Josh Jacobs on 4 preceding Runs between the Tackles? In Q2?
0 yards
0 yards
0 yards
0 yards

Let’s call a -2 into the Guard on a delayed handoff into? The middle?? Really ? On 2nd 10? While their D is fresh to open the Q3? You couldn’t draw up anything inventive during halftime to jump start us. That should’ve been a 2-minute drill and I said that during the game. Full attack mode!
Instead we had them on their heels and instead of “full charge ahead” we pulled a Civil War Union General “Little McClellan” move because we got complacent on the retreating enemy. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now.

Not saying the Packers were lucky or a failure. Merely pointing out if it weren’t for the recently added 7th team, the Packers would be in a 4 year playoff drought.

And I would suspect that if it were still the old format, losing the last 4 games of the season and missing the playoffs again would have seen Matt get the axe on Black Monday.