Fire Matt LaFleur

[tynimiller]

That's my gut feeling.

Whether for or against LaFleur, with all these teams opening up, I have to think SOMEONE would give us SOMETHING for him.

Now maybe it's a case where Matt simply doesn't want to be traded at all, or not traded to a team we have a deal with, but unless he is basically refusing to agree to it, there's no reason to just fire him outright with no return

Yeah coach trades are a three way thing as the coach legally must be part of the discussions. I'll be honest I really think if I'm the Miami GM I'm calling about him and if I get him debating grabbing Malik.

Wait, nope...Miami is too tied to Tua check that. Just call about MLF.

 

[Pugger]

Mike Tomlin is on the market now

As much as I have had enough of MLF this might not be the best time to be searching for a HC. There are now 9 openings with Tomlin walking away. I won't be surprised if Rodgers leaves Pitt now too.

 

[red4tribe]

One thing that’s always stood out to me is that LaFleur’s teams don’t blow out opponents often. True, a win is a win, but a big win is generally a sign of a team firing on all cylinders, which we don’t see often with MLF. There always seems to be something holding the team back from playing a compete game.

By my count, MLF has had 18 wins by three possessions or more in his tenure. In MM’s first seven seasons, he had 28, and that was of course with one fewer game per season. Say what you want about MM, and he certainly had shortcomings, but there were times where the team totally dominated with him at the helm. Same thing with his teams in Dallas. We haven’t seen that often with MLF, really with the exception of the 2020 season.

You can see that reflected in point differential too, with MM having +728 in his first seven years and MLF +467.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Fun fact: Over the last 2 seasons, The Packers are 4-11 against teams that made the playoffs. 1 of those 4 wins were against the Steelers team this season and a 2nd win came last season, when they beat the Rams, who were playing without all of their starting receivers.

 

[milani]

You missed my point. First, I am not saying cave to any leverage, if it exists. However, what I am saying is, IF the reports are true, that other teams are looking at hiring Matt if he is fired, than that is a tactic his agent will use IF the Packers want to retain Matt.

If there are ZERO teams that want to hire Matt and he has few, if any, opportunities knocking at his door, than yes, you are correct, there is no leverage there.

He would get hired. If not filled, the Titans would want him.

 

[Sanguine camper]

I would love to see this evidence and the rationale for calling it an "injury epidemic".

Here are some things that points to problems in Green Bay concerning their injury situation.

Soft tissue injuries got so bad that players like Christian Watson sought help outside of the organization.

David Bahktiari's recovery was completely botched leading to his retirement. That's highly unusual.

For most weeks, the injury report lists more injured Packers than the opposing team. In the past 2 years over 34 games, the Packers have listed more injuries than the opposing team 23 times with 3 ties and the opposing team had more injuries 8 times. That's nearly a 3-1 margin! That's according to the stats put out by the NFL.

In 2025, the Packers averaged 15.2 players each week on the injury report. That must interfere with getting enough practice as well as conditioning.

It's not just rhe number of injuries but the star players that go down. Nearly all the Packers best young players are injury prone or get a season ending injury. The list is long but you get my idea.

 

[milani]

One thing that’s always stood out to me is that LaFleur’s teams don’t blow out opponents often. True, a win is a win, but a big win is generally a sign of a team firing on all cylinders, which we don’t see often with MLF. There always seems to be something holding the team back from playing a compete game.

By my count, MLF has had 18 wins by three possessions or more in his tenure. In MM’s first seven seasons, he had 28, and that was of course with one fewer game per season. Say what you want about MM, and he certainly had shortcomings, but there were times where the team totally dominated with him at the helm. Same thing with his teams in Dallas. We haven’t seen that often with MLF, really with the exception of the 2020 season.

You can see that reflected in point differential too, with MM having +728 in his first seven years and MLF +467.

The last blowout I recall was against the lowly Saints late in 2024.
MM had some blowouts even with Favre at QB in 2007 and a few in Rodgers first year as a starter. The blowout years were obviously in 2011 and 2014.

 

[Scotland Yard]

A lot of trepidation around here about firing MLF citing the viewpoint that the Packers might not hire a better HC.

In response to that, I'm asking was MLF really an improvement from McCarthy?

Just looking at the 2021-2023 seasons, MM was 36-15 in those three seasons, compared to MLF's record of 30-21.

MLF had the MVP winning QB Rodgers in 2021. And had him again in 2022, but, the team still collapsed under MLF's leadership, including a five-game losing streak featuring a home loss to the NYJ's! Meanwhile, MM had a good QB, a mediocre defense and a meddling owner and still outperformed MLF in that period. In 2021 MM's team had the 1st ranked offense (but, I thought MLF was the offensive genius?)

Go ahead and point out the 2023 playoff result, that's a solid point in MLF's favor.

But, quite frankly, I think MM could have done more in GB had he ever been gifted the four FA's MLF was given when he walked in the door in 2019.

The point I'm making is MM or a few other HC hires would have probably done just as well as MLF did in his seven seasons. MLF is not the end-all, be-all HC, and his replacement would likely perform at least as well as MLF.

 

[rmontro]

But, quite frankly, I think MM could have done more in GB had he ever been gifted the four FA's MLF was given when he walked in the door in 2019.

The point I'm making is MM or a few other HC hires would have probably done just as well as MLF did in his seven seasons. MLF is not the end-all, be-all HC, and his replacement would likely perform at least as well as MLF.

MLF has had better defenses on average than McCarthy had, although that is at least partly on McCarthy.

MLF was supposed to be some sort of scheming offensive genius, but it seems like he gets outcoached a lot, especially in the playoffs. So in that aspect, he's been a bit of a disappointment. The Bears made a halftime adjustment to put more pressure on our offensive line, but he couldn't come up with an adjustment to counter?

 

[Scotland Yard]

I'll also add that only two things kept MLF from being fired already eight days ago:

1 - In 2024 he finally hired a competent DC Hafley (blind squirrel finally found a nut).

2 - Gute traded two 1st round picks + Kenny Clark for Micah Parsons.

Without those two events, MLF does not make the playoffs each of the last two seasons. In fact, this season MLF would have finished in last place in the division even with Hafley, as the Parsons injury clearly proves, and Policy's decision would have been easy.

 

[milani]

MLF has had better defenses on average than McCarthy had, although that is at least partly on McCarthy.

MLF was supposed to be some sort of scheming offensive genius, but it seems like he gets outcoached a lot, especially in the playoffs. So in that aspect, he's been a bit of a disappointment. The Bears made a halftime adjustment to put more pressure on our offensive line, but he couldn't come up with an adjustment to counter?

MLF devises so many plays over a season with different players. He can be great in between games. But on game day if the opponent responds well he does not always make necessary adjustments. Teaching players to get a first down has to be at the forefront and stopping it on defense as well. As bad as the defense was in Quarter 4 and as bad as our kicker was, One first down in 4 possessions in the second half is horrific. Were we playing the Texans or the Seahawks or the Patriots? No. The Bears.

 

[OkieCheesehead]

I'd be surprised if he doesn't take a year off. Maybe even go into broadcasting.

Yeah I seen he might go to Fox. I think he’d actually do pretty good in broadcasting

 

[OkieCheesehead]

As much as I have had enough of MLF this might not be the best time to be searching for a HC. There are now 9 openings with Tomlin walking away. I won't be surprised if Rodgers leaves Pitt now too.

Yep. I figured after last nights game that was Rodgers last one

 

[Sanguine camper]

I'll also add that only two things kept MLF from being fired already eight days ago:

1 - In 2024 he finally hired a competent DC Hafley (blind squirrel finally found a nut).

2 - Gute traded two 1st round picks + Kenny Clark for Micah Parsons.

Without those two events, MLF does not make the playoffs each of the last two seasons. In fact, this season MLF would have finished in last place in the division even with Hafley, as the Parsons injury clearly proves, and Policy's decision would have been easy.

Let's put the hiring of Jeff Hafley in context by looking at the full spectrum of all of MLF's coordinator selections.

MLF has hired 2 D coordinators: Joe Barry and Hafley. Barry didn't work out and was fired. Harley has 'improved' the defense but they suck in the the 4th quarter.

MLF has hired 2 Offensive coordinators: Nat Hackett and Adam Stenovich. Hackett was considered good enough to leave and be hired by another team. Under Stenovich, the offense has good spurts but struggles for long periods.

MLF has hired 3 Special Teams Coordinators: Shawn Menenha, Mo Drayton and Rich Bisaccia: All 3 have been disasters.

Out of 7 coordinator selections, Hafley and Hackett were OK while the other 5 were regrettable IMO. Stenovich was an excellent O line coach and moving him to Offensive coordinator hurt the O line performance.

Would a new coach do any worse? Outperforming MLF in selecting coordinators isn't a high bar to jump over.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Cignetti is one of the most arrogant coaches in the entire sport - I want no part of that.

And I’m a Hoosier resident myself and loving they’re relevant again…but no. I’ve had coaches like him coach my team before and it sucks…Brian Kelly coached my Irish for years and it is a very weird feeling wanting your coach to get a loss but your team win somehow.

I wish we had that problem with the Badgers!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Let's put the hiring of Jeff Hafley in context by looking at the full spectrum of all of MLF's coordinator selections.

MLF has hired 2 D coordinators: Joe Barry and Hafley. Barry didn't work out and was fired. Harley has 'improved' the defense but they suck in the the 4th quarter.

MLF has hired 2 Offensive coordinators: Nat Hackett and Adam Stenovich. Hackett was considered good enough to leave and be hired by another team. Under Stenovich, the offense has good spurts but struggles for long periods.

MLF has hired 3 Special Teams Coordinators: Shawn Menenha, Mo Drayton and Rich Bisaccia: All 3 have been disasters.

Out of 7 coordinator selections, Hafley and Hackett were OK while the other 5 were regrettable IMO. Stenovich was an excellent O line coach and moving him to Offensive coordinator hurt the O line performance.

Would a new coach do any worse? Outperforming MLF in selecting coordinators isn't a high bar to jump over.

Great summary Sanguine, thanks.

After the game on Saturday night, I was ready for MLF to be gone. Now that I've cooled down and realized that my first thought is usually wrong, I've reconsidered.

The one thing I've read about MLF, pro and con firing, is that he has the respect and loyalty of the team. That can't be overstated.

The second thing that came to mind - in spite of some glaring defects at CB, this team is built to win. A lot of guys will be healthy next season, Gluten will at least repair the CB group, and is it necessary or even good to mess with that coach/team chemistry?

Anyway, on second though, dumping MLF now would be a mistake IMO. Let his last contract year play out, don't extend him.

I'm sure there are a lot of other opinions on this matter (now that the season is over) and I'd like to hear them!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yep. I figured after last nights game that was Rodgers last one

Yeah I don't see Rodgers coming back either. Too bad he had to go out on such a low note, not even a TD pass.

Well he's headed to the HOF. I've had issues with the guy and his super-sized ego, especially the last few years, but he gave us a lot of great, winning football. We were fortunate he played for our team. I'll look forward to seeing his name go up inside Lambeau.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'll take his winning! If his no-nonsense style is construed as arrogance, I'll take that too since it translates to teams that play outstanding fundamental football. In contrast to what we see with the Packers.

After the Ravens game, MLF commented that he didn't know if the reason why the Ravens ran the ball down the Packers throat was due to players who could've been out of position. How in the world can players be out of position in week 17 other than not knowing their assignments, not reading the plays correctly, or completely botching the defensive call.

Those mistakes point to a cavalier attitude towards getting the basics down right.

Yeah for most of his career, I didn't see Rodgers as arrogant, just extremely confident in his abilities. He had his faults (we all do), and especially with the weird stuff, hallucinogenics, darkness retreats, a tendency to blame others first, and on.

But that's recent-memory bias. I'm sure as hell glad he was on our side, and I look forward to seeing his name in the Lambeau Ring.

 

[Heyjoe4]

G

Good luck getting Cignetti! With what he's done at James Madison and now at Indiana, he'll be able to go anywhere he wants at any price. That said, I would think his approach would work at any level.

He's only been at Indiana two years, right Sanguine? Before I declare him the next great coach, I'd like to see if he can maintain a winning team in the cutthroat colllege football business.

That doesn't take away from what he has done at Indiana, which is close to miraculous in these days of the portal and NIL.

 

[BrokenArrow]

MLF devises so many plays over a season with different players. He can be great in between games. But on game day if the opponent responds well he does not always make necessary adjustments. Teaching players to get a first down has to be at the forefront and stopping it on defense as well. As bad as the defense was in Quarter 4 and as bad as our kicker was, One first down in 4 possessions in the second half is horrific. Were we playing the Texans or the Seahawks or the Patriots? No. The Bears.

Here's my take on him for several years now. MLF is good at making halftime adjustments if we are playing from behind. What he's not good at is coming back with a lead in the second half and responding in real time to the adjustments the other team makes. That, and I don't think he has anything in his playbook for picking up 1 yard. When we had a first down on the 1 yard line the other day, I knew it was going to take 3 or 4 plays to pick that up, if at all.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

MLF and Gute back on 2 yr extensions IMO (3 total). Either get it done in 3 yrs or else (meaning SB). Lots of issues with this team that are not likely to get fixed this coming year due to finding a new DC, possible OC that calls plays or has bigger role in doing so, lack of 1st round DP, lack of cap money (unless they get rid of Jenkins and a handful of others). OL needs a fix, DB's improvement is urgent (Hobbs out, Nixon and Valentine??), back-up QB as hopefully Willis finds a QB1 home, Kraft coming back to old self (likely later in season), Jacobs returning to his first year performance with GB, .... way too many needs and lots of questions and few answers right now- thus you leave the current leadership in place and tell them they need to start fixing now, improve in 2026 and 2027 is the year of expectation.

 

[tynimiller]

Players are not going to speak ill of the current couch, BUT the level of which players are speaking in support of Matt is for sure something Ed has to consider. I mean Parsons being so new to the organization has made it clear and evident in a big way MLF was a major reason they have him in the building.

 

[shockerx]

Players are not going to speak ill of the current couch, BUT the level of which players are speaking in support of Matt is for sure something Ed has to consider. I mean Parsons being so new to the organization has made it clear and evident in a big way MLF was a major reason they have him in the building.

Many other non current players and coaches have spoken out in favor of MLF

 

[Magooch]

- It seems far-fetched but could there really be another team involved, like a trade or something? I'm not sure why there would be so little "movement" and basically radio silence otherwise. By all accounts the team wants to continue with LaFleur so what's the hold up? Are they in a spot where they're not on the same page regarding money, but not so far apart that it's pointless? Do they just not like the idea of the "optics" of announcing an extension right now? (Or, alternatively, was the plan to extend but upon hearing widespread fan/media pushback they're reconsidering?) Even if it is a disagreement about money, I don't think anyone really gains leverage by drawing it out. Maybe both parties do want to extend and are roughly in agreement on compensation but not yet totally aligned on some additional terms/stipulations (assistant staff, responsibilities, etc)

Interesting from Schefter along this angle:

“I would say this on Matt LaFleur. … We said yesterday that they’re trying to work out a deal with Matt LaFleur. It’s almost 48 hours later. There’s still no deal with Matt LaFleur. We’re waiting. … It should not be that hard. And by the way, let me say this. They still might work it out with Matt LaFleur. They might. They’re trying. But it shouldn’t be a difficult deal to do."

 

[tynimiller]

Many other non current players and coaches have spoken out in favor of MLF

Oh absolutely - Rodgers had zero reason to feel the need to speak on him and Tomlin in his presser, that speaks volume.