Fire Matt LaFleur

[Pokerbrat2000]

You’re right….its a common tactic and understandable after a player/coach has performed well. Not so much after a year in which the Packers choked multiple games away (including 2 to the same team, one of which was a playoff game), and ending the season on a 5 game losing streak. Not to mention many fans clamoring for Matt to be fired.

Matt’s agent doesn’t seem to have much leverage for a big raise and extension, IMO.

You missed my point. First, I am not saying cave to any leverage, if it exists. However, what I am saying is, IF the reports are true, that other teams are looking at hiring Matt if he is fired, than that is a tactic his agent will use IF the Packers want to retain Matt.

If there are ZERO teams that want to hire Matt and he has few, if any, opportunities knocking at his door, than yes, you are correct, there is no leverage there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not saying the Packers were lucky or a failure. Merely pointing out if it weren’t for the recently added 7th team, the Packers would be in a 4 year playoff drought.

And I would suspect that if it were still the old format, losing the last 4 games of the season and missing the playoffs again would have seen Matt get the axe on Black Monday.

If the playoff format wasn't 7 teams from each conference get a playoff spot, do you think the Packers approach the Vikings game any differently?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I hear this from others and to be honest, I'm not sure why. No one seems to be able to point to a deficiency that he has or a mistake that has hurt us at center. To my eye, the double teams are much improved with him over Jenkins and he's better at get a look at the defense before shotgun snapping.

That is a better question for the coaches, ie. "Is Rhyan a better C or RG?" I don't think he is a very good pass blocker at either position. As I said, I would be in favor of bringing Rhyan back, if nothing else for depth. I just don't think the Packers should overpay to do that. Which is something they probably will have to.

 

[adambr2]

I don’t think you can say because nothing has happened a few days after the end of the season “feet are dragging” … I could see this taking until after the Super Bowl although I think it will be resolved sooner. Hopefully Policy does not give the tiniest crap what fans or the media think. Have you ever listened to the inane questions many reporters ask after a game? (I’m suprised more coaches and players tolerate it w/o mocking them), and most fans are even dumber (bless their hearts). The goal is to see net improvements to the tesm regarding the players we lose to free agency vs the ones we gain via free agency and the draft… That’s Gute’s job. Then hope the injuries we suffer next year (yes there will be injuries) are less impactful than this year. Given losing Kraft, Parsons, Wyatt, Jenkins… I think odds are that SHOULD happen. We are in good position for next year, regardless of what the bar stool gloom and doom crowd says over and over and over agsin

The reporters in Green Bay go out of their way to word questions in about the least offensive, walking on eggshell way that they can when talking to MLF, because he is indeed known to get snippy.

Also, it’s literally their job.

 

[adambr2]

If the playoff format wasn't 7 teams from each conference get a playoff spot, do you think the Packers approach the Vikings game any differently?

Not sure, they would have been eliminated by then anyway, so it wouldn’t have mattered.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The reporters in Green Bay go out of their way to word questions in about the least offensive, walking on eggshell way that they can when talking to MLF, because he is indeed known to get snippy.

Also, it’s literally their job.

Good reporters know how to answer questions in a way that gets them the most information on the spot and in the future. I don't see a lot of good happening in being a confrontational and abrasive reporter. First, that will probably just get you a stonewall response. 2nd, that will probably close future doors for other potential interviews.

MLF and Gute rarely give away too much in their answers, especially if they don't have the exact answer. So being that guy that shouts out "Dude, are you getting fired or are you coming back?", probably isn't the best approach here.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure, they would have been eliminated by then anyway, so it wouldn’t have mattered.

LOL...you got me there. I should have gone and looked, they couldn't improve their playoff spot after week 17, my bad.

That said, my point to the poster was that saying "they wouldn't have been in the playoffs if there were only 6 spots", is somewhat of a moot point, since there are 7. Teams know that from day 1 of the season.

 

[OldSchool101]

Not saying the Packers were lucky or a failure. Merely pointing out if it weren’t for the recently added 7th team, the Packers would be in a 4 year playoff drought.

And I would suspect that if it were still the old format, losing the last 4 games of the season and missing the playoffs again would have seen Matt get the axe on Black Monday.

Sure that’s accurate.

I’m just applying that to “had we not made that FG we lost or won”. Ok but we did or didn’t it’s kinda water under the bridge.
Nobody cares what seed we were if we’re successful is my point.

I’ll agree with you on 2024-2025 seasons being a failure.

2023 was successful imo. Everyone even outside of Green Bay was expecting us to advance upward in 2024. 2023 was not a failed season especially when nobody really had Super Bowl aspirations in Love’s 1st year. It was a clear improvement over 2022 and likely a missed FG from a good shot at a Conference game. I’d say GB was equal strength to SF49ers imo.

I am with you on importance of seeding. Winning the Division is really big deal and success odds generally jump pretty good playing at home. I recall Brady saying how important he thought being a Division Winner was in his consistent success and he should know.

 

[AKCheese]

The reporters in Green Bay go out of their way to word questions in about the least offensive, walking on eggshell way that they can when talking to MLF, because he is indeed known to get snippy.

Also, it’s literally their job.

I’m not saying they’re offensive- i’m saying they’e STUPID

 

[rdawsoniii]

You missed my point. First, I am not saying cave to any leverage, if it exists. However, what I am saying is, IF the reports are true, that other teams are looking at hiring Matt if he is fired, than that is a tactic his agent will use IF the Packers want to retain Matt.

If there are ZERO teams that want to hire Matt and he has few, if any, opportunities knocking at his door, than yes, you are correct, there is no leverage there.

Just because another team would hire him is not a reason to give Matt a raise and extension. The agent might think it’s leverage, but a competent GM (or president in Green Bay’s case) should not fall for it. If Policy doesn’t think he is performing at an acceptable level, then move on. Simple as that.

Also….there is no guarantee he would be hired elsewhere as head coach.

 

[adambr2]

I’m not saying they’re offensive- i’m saying they’e STUPID

If you were a sports reporter, what kind of questions would you be asking after the game?

Their audience is the fanbase. Their questions to a degree need to be reflective of things the public would like to know.

 

[Half Empty]

OK yeah I also forget that in addition to MLF missing that XP and short FG, and those blocks when he was playing LT, he also failed to get that snap off leading to that delay of game penalty, THEN he was in at center he hurt his leg when we were out of timeouts leading to a 10 second runoff.. what a bum!!

I sort of lost track. What is his job, anyhow?

 

[Magooch]

Schrodinger's Coach, I guess....

I really have mixed feelings. I think there's merits to both approaches. And it's true that some things simply do come down to execution. But at the same time reductive arguments like "Matt didn't kick the missed field goal" are kind of ridiculous. We can't give him credit when players do execute well and absolve him of any blame when they fail to do so.

If the head coach does not share at least SOME culpability for what happens on the pitch - IF and/or HOW the players execute (or not) - then what's the point in having a head coach at all?

 

[Scotland Yard]

Remember all the Chip Kelly hype? Not many college coaches have turned that success into NFL success. Coaching kids trying to make a name for themselves is completely different from coaching multi-millionaire adults.

Chip Kelly is a terrible comparison. Chip Kelly was all hype, you said it.

Jimmy Johnson is a much better comparison. Intelligent, details oriented coach who came from U. MIA and dominated the NFL in his tenure at Dallas. Two undefeated seasons at Miami, lost one and won one college title game. Two Lombardis, and he gets most of the credit for a third in my book.

Cignetti is far more like Johnson, pending Monday's outcome of course.

Also, the Packers' penchant for young teams kind of works against your argument. Cignetti is the perfect coach for the perennially youngest team in the NFL.

 

[OkieCheesehead]

Mike Tomlin is on the market now

 

[Sanguine camper]

Because context matters as do injuries. Ignoring those two factors just proves someone is acting emotionally and has no business making important decisions.

Packers no doubt have lots of injuries. I and others have posted that its unreasonable to assume all injuries are purely random. Things like having superb strength and conditioning, medical care and scouting that identifies durable players also plays a huge role in minimizing injuries so they don't wreck seasons.

There are multiple lines of evidence that show the Packers are failing at preventing injuries that should be placed at the feet of MLF and Gute. I don't give MLF a free pass because of the injuries. I think the injury epidemic is partially his fault.

The Packers sure look gassed at the end of games. That points to a lack of conditioning as a contributing factor. Maybe the team does their conditioning out of sight but when I've attended practices at Nitschke field, I've been appalled at how easy they are.

 

[Magooch]

Chip Kelly is a terrible comparison. Chip Kelly was all hype, you said it.

Jimmy Johnson is a much better comparison. Intelligent, details oriented coach who came from U. MIA and dominated the NFL in his tenure at Dallas. Two undefeated seasons at Miami, lost one and won one college title game. Two Lombardis, and he gets most of the credit for a third in my book.

Jimmy Johnson is also one of the last/best examples of a coach with no NFL experience succeeding in the NFL. Generally this is not the case.... Most college coaches who are successful at the NFL level have at least SOME NFL experience before taking a head coaching gig in the league

Also, the Packers' penchant for young teams kind of works against your argument. Cignetti is the perfect coach for the perennially youngest team in the NFL.

I guess you could take that either direction. TBH, the "adults" on the Packers and the "kids" on the Hoosiers aren't that far apart. Indiana has an average age of roughly 23 this year...our team's average age I want to say is 25.3? Either our NFL team is basically still kids, or his college team is basically already adults

But, I've mentioned it before, I don't see any reason for him to leave the college ranks at the moment. He's just signed a massive contract and part of that includes a market adjustment that basically stipulates Indiana will pay him like one of the top 3 coaches in college. His salary's already would be a top-10 NFL coach salary and he basically has total control over his program. He's got Mark Cuban bankrolling the operation. We would have to offer him significantly more than we are currently paying LaFleur to begin with, and even if we did I haven't seen any indication that he's interested in making that move. It would certainly be interesting but I have a hard time seeing it happen.

 

[El Guapo]

If Policy doesn’t think he is performing at an acceptable level, then move on. Simple as that.

Except that it's not.

If Policy doesn't think that there is a better coach available that he can sign to a contract, then it is a dumb move. In addition, if he hires a head coach that isn't also an offensive coordinator-type, then he's got to hire an offensive coordinator too....and likely a new DC because the babies usually go out with the bath water.

 

[Magooch]

Packers no doubt have lots of injuries. I and others have posted that its unreasonable to assume all injuries are purely random. Things like having superb strength and conditioning, medical care and scouting that identifies durable players also plays a huge role in minimizing injuries so they don't wreck seasons.

There are multiple lines of evidence that show the Packers are failing at preventing injuries that should be placed at the feet of MLF and Gute. I don't give MLF a free pass because of the injuries. I think the injury epidemic is partially his fault.

The Packers sure look gassed at the end of games. That points to a lack of conditioning as a contributing factor. Maybe the team does their conditioning out of sight but when I've attended practices at Nitschke field, I've been appalled at how easy they are.

Not that it means a ton (he has had a tendency to often SAY lots and ultimately DO little) but to his credit MLF did mention this as an area of focus:

"I think we have to look at everything, from how we train to how we practice. Just trying to find maybe different ways to do things, but those are all the conversations that are ongoing right now, just taking all the data that we have, comparing to other teams or whatever it may be. Certainly this year, we had the injury bug a little bit. It's like all right, can we do something different to avoid that?"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Mike Tomlin is on the market now

I'd be surprised if he doesn't take a year off. Maybe even go into broadcasting.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There are multiple lines of evidence that show the Packers are failing at preventing injuries that should be placed at the feet of MLF and Gute. I don't give MLF a free pass because of the injuries. I think the injury epidemic is partially his fault.

I would love to see this evidence and the rationale for calling it an "injury epidemic".

 

[AKCheese]

Thinking you can condition your way out of torn ACLs and broken bones shows perhaps why reporters ask stupid questions to mollify the fan base (as someone suggested earlier) LOL

 

[shockerx]

Except that it's not.

If Policy doesn't think that there is a better coach available that he can sign to a contract, then it is a dumb move. In addition, if he hires a head coach that isn't also an offensive coordinator-type, then he's got to hire an offensive coordinator too....and likely a new DC because the babies usually go out with the bath water.

There are 9 HC openings right now. Agree who gonna be better, just in the last 2 days hall of famer Aaron Rodgers all pro M. Parsons and minus the injury pro bowler T. Kraft. say you are crazy to move on from MLF. Other agree too, Former All pro TE G. Olson and J. Gruden. And it MLF strong point is play calling , do not take away a strong point. They lost these games because they could not run the football to close games out. Get a OL coach that can teach and push these guys to be better. i would hope they can bring in via draft and FA and maybe kidnapping 4-5 guys to compete. plus Hafley gonna be gone so you got that to deal with.

 

[tynimiller]

I've already said I'm not in the camp of fire him - but in truth I don't even need to argue the merits of keeping him, just don't clean fire him.

MLF would absolutely be a HC worthy of a team trading for him without a question in my mind. 1,000%

 

[Magooch]

I've already said I'm not in the camp of fire him - but in truth I don't even need to argue the merits of keeping him, just don't clean fire him.

MLF would absolutely be a HC worthy of a team trading for him without a question in my mind. 1,000%

That's my gut feeling.

Whether for or against LaFleur, with all these teams opening up, I have to think SOMEONE would give us SOMETHING for him.

Now maybe it's a case where Matt simply doesn't want to be traded at all, or not traded to a team we have a deal with, but unless he is basically refusing to agree to it, there's no reason to just fire him outright with no return