Put The Heat On Matt LaFleur And Mark Murphy

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Put them in the hot seat and tell them to fix this **** or be fired!!!
I’m going to give credit where credit is due. For its quite obvious that without this post??
There would not have been the needed pressure to get it ** * **** ** * fixed!
(I will let You fill in the ** * blanks!)
Thank You Carolina! :tup:

PS.. could we start a Fire Nathaniel Hackett “hot seat” *** thread before our bye week #1 seed n the playoffs? That and that alone should muster the necessary motivation to finish this season properly! :whistling:
 
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Halfmooner

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Well, obviously Rodgers will get his criticisms for today and justifiably so. Matt LaFleur needs to feel the heat rain down on his head big time for today though and ya damn right I'm going to do that. Big time cardinal sins committed by him that he must be held accountable for.

1. He hates AJ Dillon as evidenced by his lack of snaps. BAD!!!

2. Didn't do his homework on the Saints defense or make any adjustments - Extremely AWFUL!!!

3. Took too long to get Amari Rodgers in the game - ATROCIOUS!!!

4. Hiring that clown Joe Barry - Ridiculously STUPID!!!


He needs to be ripped by the Green Bay Press Gazette and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel hard for today's game. And Mark Murphy must be held accountable for not reviewing this coaching staff and fixing it by hiring elite special teams and defensive coordinators.

Put them in the hot seat and tell them to fix this **** or be fired!!!
Murphy is the biggest fraud in the NFL….whoever is responsible for hiring this guy (i.e. on the Exec Board) should be tossed out along with Murphy.
 

Firethorn1001

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Murphy is the biggest fraud in the NFL….whoever is responsible for hiring this guy (i.e. on the Exec Board) should be tossed out along with Murphy.

I think Murphy is really good at the off the field business stuff. On field stuff.. not so much.
 

adambr2

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I think Murphy is really good at the off the field business stuff. On field stuff.. not so much.
The Packers should have distanced themselves from Murphy when the hazing scandal came out. Instead they went tight lipped and you hear nothing about it.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Murphy is the biggest fraud in the NFL….whoever is responsible for hiring this guy (i.e. on the Exec Board) should be tossed out along with Murphy.

How's that? Look at the business side of The Green Bay Packers. Murphy has done more for the Packers AND Green Bay in that area than anyone before him. He has kept the Packers relevant in todays quickly growing NFL Business first, team second. When was the last time the Packers hosted the Draft?

This is nothing but a knee jerk reaction of a spoiled fan that expects the Packers to always go to the Super Bowl.
 

tynimiller

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How's that? Look at the business side of The Green Bay Packers. Murphy has done more for the Packers AND Green Bay in that area than anyone before him. He has kept the Packers relevant in todays quickly growing NFL Business first, team second. When was the last time the Packers hosted the Draft?

This is nothing but a knee jerk reaction of a spoiled fan that expects the Packers to always go to the Super Bowl.

It's just frustration and anger at the season clouding folks heads with utter self destruction.
 

Schultz

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I get that Murphy has done a stellar job on the financial side. Let someone else run the football side.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I get that Murphy has done a stellar job on the financial side. Let someone else run the football side.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Murphy does much "running" or decision making on the Football side of things. He may give off that appearance, but Gute and MLF are running the show.

Murphy in 2019:

"I’ll be involved and supportive, but I’m not going to make football decisions. I’m not making decisions on who we are going to draft or who’s on the 53-man roster or whether we should pass on third-and-1."
 

Firethorn1001

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Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Murphy does much "running" or decision making on the Football side of things. He may give off that appearance, but Gute and MLF are running the show.

He doesn't do much decision making on the football side, but the decisions he makes are massive ones.

1. I think he stayed attached too long to Ted Thompson when it was apparent that TT was slipping mentally.
2. Gute as the hire is questionable post-Rodgers
3. MLF as the hire is questionable post-Rodgers
4. The handling of Rodgers as a whole was a 3 year mess (I think QB relationships/contracts are in that ownership/president responsibility now)
5. I question changing the President>GM>Coach dynamic and making everyone report to him.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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He doesn't do much decision making on the football side, but the decisions he makes are massive ones.

1. I think he stayed attached too long to Ted Thompson when it was apparent that TT was slipping mentally.
2. Gute as the hire is questionable post-Rodgers
3. MLF as the hire is questionable post-Rodgers
4. The handling of Rodgers as a whole was a 3 year mess (I think QB relationships/contracts are in that ownership/president responsibility now)
5. I question changing the President>GM>Coach dynamic and making everyone report to him.
Again, I don't think Murphy had a lot to do with points 3-5.

Hard to argue with the success that the Packers have had on and off the field. So saying that you don't like the dynamic of how the organization has been structured, isn't reason enough to change it.

Again, I am not making excuses for the 2-5 Packers, but I think people are expecting far too much from this current team.
 

Firethorn1001

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Again, I don't think Murphy had a lot to do with points 3-5.

He was heavily involved in hiring MLF and changed the structure. If he wasn't involved in sorting out #4, then he really failed in that aspect. If the Packers spiral out of control in 2023/2024 and it results in the firing on Gute and MLF, then that means Rodgers was just covering significantly for the shortcomings of MLF/Gute which falls on Murphy ******** up the biggest on field stuff.

If that happens, he will be remember for being very good at the off-field stuff and leaving the on the field product as a smoking wreck.
 

Schultz

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Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Murphy does much "running" or decision making on the Football side of things. He may give off that appearance, but Gute and MLF are running the show.

Murphy in 2019:

"I’ll be involved and supportive, but I’m not going to make football decisions. I’m not making decisions on who we are going to draft or who’s on the 53-man roster or whether we should pass on third-and-1."
I think my point was people are saying Gute and MLF are safe at least until Murphy retires. I would rather someone else made a decision on those 2 right around XMAS 2024.
 

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Again, I don't think Murphy had a lot to do with points 3-5.

Hard to argue with the success that the Packers have had on and off the field. So saying that you don't like the dynamic of how the organization has been structured, isn't reason enough to change it.

Again, I am not making excuses for the 2-5 Packers, but I think people are expecting far too much from this current team.
I remember some folks this past summer here and on other Packers message boards talk about this collection of players being a playoff team. These might be the same people who now are considering gathering torches and pitch forks ready to storm down Lombardi Avenue to 1265 calling for heads to roll. I suspected a lot of ups and downs but it appears we are experiencing more downs this year. I think we all better come to grips with the reality that wins are going to be hard to come by this year. It isn't the end of the world. Maybe now we can actually have the opportunity to draft real blue chippers at the top the draft in each round. Teams like Jax, Miami and the Lions have stunk for years while accumulating good young talent and are now finally reaping the rewards. Let's hope we don't have to be bad for years before we return to our winning ways...
 

tynimiller

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I remember some folks this past summer here and on other Packers message boards talk about this collection of players being a playoff team. These might be the same people who now are considering gathering torches and pitch forks ready to storm down Lombardi Avenue to 1265 calling for heads to roll. I suspected a lot of ups and downs but it appears we are experiencing more downs this year. I think we all better come to grips with the reality that wins are going to be hard to come by this year. It isn't the end of the world. Maybe now we can actually have the opportunity to draft real blue chippers at the top the draft in each round. Teams like Jax, Miami and the Lions have stunk for years while accumulating good young talent and are now finally reaping the rewards. Let's hope we don't have to be bad for years before we return to our winning ways...

So I've shared elsewhere when someone said Gute sucked at drafting as we don't hardly have any players here anymore....he really is about normal. Good drafting is about retention of them, meaning they're good enough for the NFL - *as expressed elsewhere, this sentence better put should have said one aspect of good drafting is...

Dolphins
2018 - 8 drafted / 3 on team still
2019 - 6 drafted / 2 on team still
2020 - 11 drafted / 6 on team still
2021 - 7 drafted / 4 on team still
15 still there

Jaguars
2018 - 7 drafted / 1 on team still
2019 - 7 drafted / 1 on team still
2020 - 12 drafted / 6 on team still (*one listed as exempt on team...didn't research)
2021 - 9 drafted / 6 on team still
14 still there.

Lions
2018 - 6 drafted / 2 on team still
2019 - 9 drafted / 1 on team still
2020 - 9 drafted / 2 on team still
2021 - 7 drafted / 6 on team still
11 still there

Now for Packers...


Packers
2018 - 11 drafted / 1 on team still
2019 - 8 drafted / 3 on team still
2020 - 9 drafted / 4 on team still
2021 - 9 drafted / 5 on team still
13 still here
 
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adambr2

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So I've shared elsewhere when someone said Gute sucked at drafting as we don't hardly have any players here anymore....he really is about normal. Good drafting is about retention of them, meaning they're good enough for the NFL -

Dolphins
2018 - 8 drafted / 3 on team still
2019 - 6 drafted / 2 on team still
2020 - 11 drafted / 6 on team still
2021 - 7 drafted / 4 on team still
15 still there

Jaguars
2018 - 7 drafted / 1 on team still
2019 - 7 drafted / 1 on team still
2020 - 12 drafted / 6 on team still (*one listed as exempt on team...didn't research)
2021 - 9 drafted / 6 on team still
14 still there.

Lions
2018 - 6 drafted / 2 on team still
2019 - 9 drafted / 1 on team still
2020 - 9 drafted / 2 on team still
2021 - 7 drafted / 6 on team still
11 still there

Now for Packers...


Packers
2018 - 11 drafted / 1 on team still
2019 - 8 drafted / 3 on team still
2020 - 9 drafted / 4 on team still
2021 - 9 drafted / 5 on team still
13 still here
"Good drafting is about retention"?

So you're treating players as equals here as long as they are still in the NFL? By this GM measuring stick, we're assigning the same level of success to the draft selections of Josiah Deguara and Royce Newman as we are to Amon Ra St Brown and Alim McNeill?

In addition to that, some front offices are more apt to exercise patience with their fringe roster guys, whereas some front offices are more prone to just cutting their losses and moving on, which is further problematic for this grading scale. I'm sorry, but this is such a broad measurement of GM performance which misses out on so many details that you might as well just throw it out completely and come up with a different grading system.

You cannot name one single "impact" player that Gute has drafted since the 2019 season. Not one. An actual, current impact player, not just "the potential to be one."

The last was Gary, and he took a long time to get there. Since then, it's been a barren wasteland. You are not going to be competitive in the NFL with "guys that are good enough to be on a 53 man roster." The Josiah Deguara's and AJ Dillon's of the world are a dime a dozen and could be replaced tomorrow with no noticeable effects.
 
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tynimiller

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"Good drafting is about retention"?

So you're treating players as equals here as long as they are still in the NFL? By this GM measuring stick, we're assigning the same level of success to the draft selections of Josiah Deguara and Royce Newman as we are to Amon Ra St Brown and Alim McNeill?

I'm sorry, but this is such a broad measurement of GM performance which misses out on so many details that you might as well just throw it out completely and come up with a different grading system.

You cannot name one single "impact" player that Gute has drafted since the 2019 season. Not one. An actual, current impact player, not just "the potential to be one."

The last was Gary, and he took a long time to get there. Since then, it's been a barren wasteland. You are not going to be competitive in the NFL with "guys that are good enough to be on a 53 man roster." The Josiah Deguara's and AJ Dillon's of the world are a dime a dozen and could be replaced tomorrow with no noticeable effects.

I cannot encompass an entire thought on drafting in one thought, but yes a major part of good drafting is actually finding players that can play in the NFL. For sure finding one HOF'er would outweigh finding 4 starters in some cases - also considering or weighting the position of the HOF....a HOF kicker is far less valuable than a HOF center who is far less valuable than a HOF LT...who...you get the thought process.

You may be newish to the board, but trust me I may be the most draft oriented nerd addict card holder...it would be ignorant to make a statement that any single measurement is the metric to hold a GM as a good or bad drafter. I just didn't take the time to flesh out it all, but could have worded that part differently for sure.

Another massive part is drafting guys that are even in the NFL...folks would be blown away if they did the exercise I did from 2018-2021 drafts just how many GMs not only maybe have one or two guys still on their teams...there are nearly entire draft classes for teams that the guys aren't even on a roster or even in the league.
 

adambr2

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I cannot encompass an entire thought on drafting in one thought, but yes a major part of good drafting is actually finding players that can play in the NFL. For sure finding one HOF'er would outweigh finding 4 starters in some cases - also considering or weighting the position of the HOF....a HOF kicker is far less valuable than a HOF center who is far less valuable than a HOF LT...who...you get the thought process.

You may be newish to the board, but trust me I may be the most draft oriented nerd addict card holder...it would be ignorant to make a statement that any single measurement is the metric to hold a GM as a good or bad drafter. I just didn't take the time to flesh out it all, but could have worded that part differently for sure.

Another massive part is drafting guys that are even in the NFL...folks would be blown away if they did the exercise I did from 2018-2021 drafts just how many GMs not only maybe have one or two guys still on their teams...there are nearly entire draft classes for teams that the guys aren't even on a roster or even in the league.
I am not newish to the board, I've been posting for probably 10 years on and off. I am sure that fans tend to overmagnify their own GMs successes and ignore the failures of others...so I don't disagree with you that fans probably don't always have the total perspective. Truth be told, I simply am in total disagreement with Gute's draft philosophies, and I will explain why as rationally and reasonably as I can.

I think Gutekunst's drafting philosophies are a massive organizational inefficiency. I think it's inconsistent with any good business sense in the NFL.

To me, with the salary cap in the NFL, it's essentially a game of "Moneyball" between 32 GMs. We all have this same amount to work with. So how can we be most efficient with it?

Well, taking the length of one of your most valuable assets, the rookie contract, and cutting it by 50-75% because that's how long it takes your prospects to get up to speed, is not efficient. It is horribly inefficient. Look, it's no secret how important it is to get production out of rookie contracts. You can't build a good roster solely on the veteran market, it's just too expensive.

IMO, "NFL-ready", should be a heavily weighted attribute for any rookie, and Gute not only doesn't value that trait, but he seems to seek out the opposite. So even when you finally start getting production out of your players like Gary, you had years from them where you were getting little to nothing. And I'm not knocking the Gary pick or saying it was bad, and I thought the extension was perfectly reasonable for the market, but that's the reality. You got little out of the rookie deal, now you have to pay market, and you can't build a good roster on all market deals.

I'm not saying that every rookie needs to show up at rookie camp ready to be a big contributor from Day 1, but it sure needs to be valued a lot more than we are doing. And these rookies are out there, and they aren't all just guys you find in the top 10 of the first round. Amon Ra St Brown and Puka Nacua being two recent examples.
 

tynimiller

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I am not newish to the board, I've been posting for probably 10 years on and off. I am sure that fans tend to overmagnify their own GMs successes and ignore the failures of others...so I don't disagree with you that fans probably don't always have the total perspective. Truth be told, I simply am in total disagreement with Gute's draft philosophies, and I will explain why as rationally and reasonably as I can.

I think Gutekunst's drafting philosophies are a massive organizational inefficiency. I think it's inconsistent with any good business sense in the NFL.

To me, with the salary cap in the NFL, it's essentially a game of "Moneyball" between 32 GMs. We all have this same amount to work with. So how can we be most efficient with it?

Well, taking the length of one of your most valuable assets, the rookie contract, and cutting it by 50-75% because that's how long it takes your prospects to get up to speed, is not efficient. It is horribly inefficient. Look, it's no secret how important it is to get production out of rookie contracts. You can't build a good roster solely on the veteran market, it's just too expensive.

IMO, "NFL-ready", should be a heavily weighted attribute for any rookie, and Gute not only doesn't value that trait, but he seems to seek out the opposite. So even when you finally start getting production out of your players like Gary, you had years from them where you were getting little to nothing. And I'm not knocking the Gary pick or saying it was bad, and I thought the extension was perfectly reasonable for the market, but that's the reality. You got little out of the rookie deal, now you have to pay market, and you can't build a good roster on all market deals.

I'm not saying that every rookie needs to show up at rookie camp ready to be a big contributor from Day 1, but it sure needs to be valued a lot more than we are doing. And these rookies are out there, and they aren't all just guys you find in the top 10 of the first round. Amon Ra St Brown and Puka Nacua being two recent examples.

I think the test here would be to isolate GMs and their draft picks and their average snaps per game played on rookie deals. That would tell you at minimum how much are the teams those GMs running using their draft picks at their most affordable timeframes.

Honestly, I suspect Gute would be middle to upper in use actually - but outside the Top10 because as you said he does for sure not allow immediate need to sway their war rooms' board if you will. Gary is the perfect example, dynamite prospect, freaking freak really...but we had no need for that position arguably given our roster structures. It'd be a good exercise to compare and one I'd love someone to spend the time to compile say in that 2018 to 2021 draft classes how does Gute stack up to providing rookie contract snaps....shoot I'm intrigued enough some bourbon and bad weather (so I can't hunt) and I may do it - if I do I'll be sure to let you know, as I suspect you're just as curious now as I am how it all washes out.

Bad thing is too as you no doubt already thought...it isn't the same wait if you are providing a lot of depth type snaps vs starters...but it is a more detailed approach to analyzing this that at least removes subjectivity or ranking/weighting with subjective reasonings.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I remember some folks this past summer here and on other Packers message boards talk about this collection of players being a playoff team. These might be the same people who now are considering gathering torches and pitch forks ready to storm down Lombardi Avenue to 1265 calling for heads to roll. I suspected a lot of ups and downs but it appears we are experiencing more downs this year. I think we all better come to grips with the reality that wins are going to be hard to come by this year. It isn't the end of the world. Maybe now we can actually have the opportunity to draft real blue chippers at the top the draft in each round. Teams like Jax, Miami and the Lions have stunk for years while accumulating good young talent and are now finally reaping the rewards. Let's hope we don't have to be bad for years before we return to our winning ways...
Agree

All about expectations to me. All those fans thinking that this was a playoff ready team, set what I would call unfair expectations and now they are unhappy.

I would have LOVED Santa to bring me a real car when I was 16, but had I thought that was really going to happen, that scarf my Mom knitted me would have been so so disappointing.
 

Sunshinepacker

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I read the title to this thread and it just baffles me that Gute gets off with none of the blame for putting together this awful offense. The Packers currently field the cheapest offense in the league and have exactly ONE skill position player that isn't on a rookie contract (Jones)...but somehow it's MLF's fault for not magically making the cheapest and youngest offense in the NFL decent? MLF's job is to scheme players open (which he does very succesfully). Gute provided a QB who, after three years in the league, is one of the most inaccurate deep passers in the NFL. Oh, and Gute gave that QB with bad deep ball accuracy a highly drafted receiver who is a terrific deep ball threat (and a really fast TE who should be a deep threat) so us fans could watch Love miss him and then, somehow, blame MLF for it. Also, Gute gave Love a bunch of playmakers who drop passes and run the wrong routes but somehow that's MLF's issue to. Gute built this offense and the personnel is trash (but trash with potential). The 2020 draft is looking like a really bad draft and the 2021 draft is certifiable bad (Slaton is the only guy who has been good for the team). Out of those two drafts, the best offensive player Gute got for MLF is...AJ Dillon, an underwhelming backup RB.

Blame MLF for keeping Barry around as the DC (he absolutely deserves it for keeping that garbage hire around) but don't blame MLF for having to coach one of the worst collections of offensive talent in the NFL.
 

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I read the title to this thread and it just baffles me that Gute gets off with none of the blame for putting together this awful offense.
this is what I’ve been getting at elsewhere and I can’t understand it. Not even specifically Gute necessarily but it seems like some are willing to put no blame on Love, no blame on LaFleur, AND no blame on Gute and I just can’t fathom this.

I’m repeating myself but again I think you can only pick two:

If Gute’s done a good enough job putting together the team and LaFleur’s done a good enough job coaching those players then Love is the problem.

If Love’s good enough to be our QB and Gute’s done a good enough job surrounding him with the talent necessary to be successful then LaFleur is the problem.

And if LaFleur and Love are both good enough to be “the answer” going forward but simply don’t have enough talent to work with to be able to be successful, then Gute is the problem.

But I just don’t see how you could possibly look at this season (or last season, for that matter) and conclude that Gute has done a fine job putting together a talented and competitive team AND LaFleur has put those players in a good position to succeed and is getting the most out of those tainted players AND Love is growing and progressing well and maturing as a pro and showing he has what it takes to be our long term QB. Just don’t see how all three can be deemed adequate right now. Like I said, pick two.
 

tynimiller

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OR....it is possible the three of them as a unit together isn't the option...
 

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