Devin Funchess has opted out of the 2020 season

[tynimiller]

I think some, @Pokerbrat2000 may fit this or may not, are just so incredulous when it comes to the steps or lack of steps taken to cure it. With that whether fair or not, makes stepping back from the topic and speaking unbiasedly is very tough to do.

I've been in a similar situation on variety of items in life - some Packers related. You see so much red its' tough to see anything but in shades of red.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

incredulous when it comes to the steps or lack of steps taken to cure it.

I understand that its a very big picture thing. Maybe some feel that I make it sound much easier than it really is, but I am more disappointed in the effort than I am in what I perceive to be the very predictable and should have been expected results. Basically, the Packers have reaped what they sewed by their actions or lack there of in regards to the WR position.

Big Picture:

1. Davante Adams was the last high draft pick used on the position, a late 2nd round pick (#53) in 2014.
2. 3 starters since that time were allowed to walk (Jones, Nelson, Cobb)
3. Gute invested a 4th, 5th and 6th round into the position in 2018. None of those WR's have fully panned out yet IMO. The 4th round pick had 2 career catches and is out of football.
4. Devin Funchess is the only FA WR of any substance signed in a long time.
5. Long list of WR's, mostly mid-late round or UDFA's have paraded through GB in the last 10 years, Lazard at the moment seems the only one to have shown potential.

I'm sure there are some things I missed, but when you add it all up, I don't know why anyone is surprised that we currently have 1 starting caliber WR on the 53 man roster.

Let's face it, the Packers have a FHOF QB in #12 and he has been able to make up for a lot of the deficiencies at the WR position. I just can't imagine how much better this team could have been some seasons, had Rodgers had better weapons at his disposal.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't think you missed anything. I LOVED Jones and Nelson, both though were past their prime and paid behind their offerings were smart walks...Cobb I could make an argument was smart and I could make argument was dumb - both with evidence.

I concur, we really have avoided the position with any real committed substance outside of the Funchess signing - which even it was a bargain due to his previous injury.

It's the main reason I was screaming for Pittman when we traded up...screaming to get Mims or Edwards in the 2nd even if it meant a trade. It's why I was fine if we took a flier on a guy like Gandy-Golden in the 3rd (above where he should have gone)....or why I was screaming from the 5th on DPJ was a SOLID pick for the position he was at - not a DPJ fan, but after the 4th the dude was a straight steal for anyone.

 

[PikeBadger]

I understand that its a very big picture thing. Maybe some feel that I make it sound much easier than it really is, but I am more disappointed in the effort than I am in what I perceive to be the very predictable and should have been expected results. Basically, the Packers have reaped what they sewed by their actions or lack there of in regards to the WR position.

Big Picture:

1. Davante Adams was the last high draft pick used on the position, a late 2nd round pick (#53) in 2014.
2. 3 starters since that time were allowed to walk (Jones, Nelson, Cobb)
3. Gute invested a 4th, 5th and 6th round into the position in 2018. None of those WR's have fully panned out yet IMO. The 4th round pick had 2 career catches and is out of football.
4. Devin Funchess is the only FA WR of any substance signed in a long time.
5. Long list of WR's, mostly mid-late round or UDFA's have paraded through GB in the last 10 years, Lazard at the moment seems the only one to have shown potential.

I'm sure there are some things I missed, but when you add it all up, I don't know why anyone is surprised that we currently have 1 starting caliber WR on the 53 man roster.

Let's face it, the Packers have a FHOF QB in #12 and he has been able to make up for a lot of the deficiencies at the WR position. I just can't imagine how much better this team could have been some seasons, had Rodgers had better weapons at his disposal.

I just want to say that I believe that Lazard has clearly shown that he is a starting caliber wide receiver in this offense. I do believe that we need another guy with Ervin’s skill set on board.

 

[PikeBadger]

As far as adding another since 2014. I understand your angst. In retrospect, If we’d traded out of round 1 instead of drafting Datone Jones and Dix, we may have gotten that next WR. It’s all water under the bridge though. I always liked those Lockett guys coming out of KansasState. Multi-dimensional skill sets.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I just want to say that I believe that Lazard has clearly shown that he is a starting caliber wide receiver in this offense. I do believe that we need another guy with Ervin’s skill set on board.

As far as adding another since 2014. I understand your angst. In retrospect, If we’d traded out of round 1 instead of drafting Datone Jones and Dix, we may have gotten that next WR. It’s all water under the bridge though. I always liked those Lockett guys coming out of KansasState. Multi-dimensional skill sets.

I think Lazard is on his way to being decent. Still not ready to anoint him a top 50 or even 75 WR. I do think he is a much better fit in MLF's offense than MVS, EQ or any of the other guys. Mainly due to his blocking skills, but also due to what appears to be a guy that actually gets open and catches the ball.

As far as all the drafts and decisions that have gone down, without what would appear to be very little results when it comes to the WR position, that is my point. We can all talk about what we think that the Packers should have, could have done, but in my mind, they have basically done very little and as a result, have very little to show for it. That is also their choice. Sure, they may have missed out on "this guy or that guy", but then go out and find someone else. Not picking ANY WR's in last years draft was beyond questionable for me.

It's hard to get too mad (at the results) when you send someone to the store to buy steaks, they come back with a bunch of bottom round steaks, throw them on the grill and plate them. It's on you if you were expecting to cut into a nice Filet Mignon. Now had they bought expensive steaks and they came out tasting equally bad, that is a whole different discussion on how those steaks were picked, prepared and grilled.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

The offense is fine against doormats. When teams can cover sideline throws and pressure Rodgers that's when it leads to problems.

IMO, it's only ok that we beat Houston (as we should have) but what I saw yesterday doesn't lead me to believe that we'll beat the Bucs defense if we were to play them again any time soon. If GB handles the Bears defense then maybe we're talkin'.

 

[Mondio]

It's hard to get too mad (at the results) when you send someone to the store to buy steaks, they come back with a bunch of bottom round steaks, throw them on the grill and plate them. It's on you if you were expecting to cut into a nice Filet Mignon. Now had they bought expensive steaks and they came out tasting equally bad, that is a whole different discussion on how those steaks were picked, prepared and grilled.

If the Drinks, Company and desserts are pretty dang good, I'll have a great time regardless of the steaks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If the Drinks, Company and desserts are pretty dang good, I'll have a great time regardless of the steaks.

Problem is, sometime the desserts melt, the beer is warm and the company is up in your face before you can even flip those steaks.

If all you want is a run of the mill, beans and farting picnic, then no need to worry about the fixings and the high end stuff, since you aren't looking for anything Super. In that case you probably haven't set up a tent either. So I hate to tell you about those heavy storms coming out of the Tampa and San Fran areas that are very likely to stop by your picnic and **** in your porridge.

 

[Mondio]

you're probably right. I don't even know why they play with that offense. Let's trade our RB's and get some more WR's we'll be better then.

 

[GleefulGary]

Maybe I am "reading the room" wrong, but when the Packers were 4-0, it seemed that there were posters and media pointing to the record, the points scored and the fact that Adams wasn't even playing as proof that the offense was just fine. Now that we have whipped another doormat team, I can see people thinking that Tampa Bay was a fluke and the talk returning to "all is well".

More importantly, Gute still has not brought anyone in, so that tells me it isn't top priority for him. Yeah, Yean I know what some are going to say "how do you know he isn't trying?" Well guys, if he is trying, he sure should get an F grade over the last 2 years on his results if all he can bring in is Reggie Begelton and Funchess.

Name names for who he should’ve brought in post July. Thanks!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

you're probably right. I don't even know why they play with that offense. Let's trade our RB's and get some more WR's we'll be better then.

My face if I had to deal with an 8 year old boy all the time....

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[tynimiller]

Honestly, after all the heat Gute has felt for not grabbing a WR, issues hitting the WR room between Adams and Lazard injuries, MVS at best not progressing, ESB obviously not quite ready....I am mildly excited for 2021.

I foresee a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round WR will be picked, Funchess comes back - I would love to be living in a world where Adams, Lazard, Funchess and a higher draft pick are the 1-4...could be SPECIAL!

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Honestly, after all the heat Gute has felt for not grabbing a WR, issues hitting the WR room between Adams and Lazard injuries, MVS at best not progressing, ESB obviously not quite ready....I am mildly excited for 2021.

I foresee a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round WR will be picked, Funchess comes back - I would love to be living in a world where Adams, Lazard, Funchess and a higher draft pick are the 1-4...could be SPECIAL!

It would be nice if Green Bay's first pick was #32 overall.

Nice, but not expected.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Honestly, after all the heat Gute has felt for not grabbing a WR, issues hitting the WR room between Adams and Lazard injuries, MVS at best not progressing, ESB obviously not quite ready....I am mildly excited for 2021.

I foresee a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round WR will be picked, Funchess comes back - I would love to be living in a world where Adams, Lazard, Funchess and a higher draft pick are the 1-4...could be SPECIAL!

Interesting that you bring this up Ty. Before the draft, there were a number of people who argued that even the best rookie WRs only averaged about 500 yards/year. But this was a unique class. A lot of these receivers chosen early are doing pretty well.

Oh well, that opportunity has come and gone. GB has had a lot of success finding first-round capable receivers in the second round - Adams, Jennings, Nelson. So yeah, I'm looking forward to 2021 as well with Adams, Lazard and a solid draft pick. I'm on the fence about MVS and ESB, and will wait to see Funchess in action. So far, MLF has made the most of his WRs.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Honestly, after all the heat Gute has felt for not grabbing a WR, issues hitting the WR room between Adams and Lazard injuries, MVS at best not progressing, ESB obviously not quite ready....I am mildly excited for 2021.

I foresee a 1st, 2nd or 3rd round WR will be picked

Before you get too excited, this was the same scenario as a year ago. Just substitute GMO for ESB. Hate to beat a dead horse, but as long as we have #12 and #17, it seems that Gute and the Packers are pretty comfortable with the position. I hope they prove that statement to be very wrong.

 

[tynimiller]

Before you get too excited, this was the same scenario as a year ago. Just substitute GMO for ESB. Hate to beat a dead horse, but as long as we have #12 and #17, it seems that Gute and the Packers are pretty comfortable with the position. I hope they prove that statement to be very wrong.

False, we didn't have Funchess or an equivalent FA acquired then. While I agree one shouldn't get excited to the point of thinking it will be amazing for sure - this is different.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

False, we didn't have Funchess or an equivalent FA acquired then. While I agree one shouldn't get excited to the point of thinking it will be amazing for sure - this is different.

I should have said "Replace Funchess for GMO", but since Funchess isn't even on the 53 this year, that would be silly.

If you want to get excited about Adams, Lazard and Funchess + dream about a Draft pick in the first 3 rounds being used on a WR, I won't stop you. All I was pointing out was you were probably having a similar dream last season, especially when the 2019 WR draft class was being discussed?

 

[tynimiller]

I should have said "Replace Funchess for GMO", but since Funchess isn't even on the 53 this year, that would be silly.

If you want to get excited about Adams, Lazard and Funchess + dream about a Draft pick in the first 3 rounds being used on a WR, I won't stop you. All I was pointing out was you were probably having a similar dream last season, especially when the 2019 WR draft class was being discussed?

Not really, last year I still thought Lazard was as easily a bum as an above average guy...before his injury he finally I think convinced me at worst he can be a capable and good #3 for us and push for a #2B type spot honestly.

Last year I felt we had:

Tier 1: Adams
Tier 2: Nothing
Tier 3: "maybe" Lazard
Tier 4: MVS, ESB, GMo
Tier 5: Darrius and others...

Where now:

Tier 1: Adams
Tier 2: Lazard
Tier 3/4: Funchess
Tier 4/5: MVS
Tier 5: ESB, Darrius, Malik and others...and I sense a draft pick as well as expressed.

For reference I'd loosely define my Tiers as this:

1 - Surefire starter, and ELITE
2 - Can count on as starter and to contribute week in and week out.
3 - May not start or may...but will contribute here and there, typically your #3 or #4 guy
4 - Supporting cast WRs...play 10 or fewer percent of the snaps ever, yet can rise for limited duty and roles.
5 - Depth, developing....

 

[Dantés]

I understand that its a very big picture thing. Maybe some feel that I make it sound much easier than it really is, but I am more disappointed in the effort than I am in what I perceive to be the very predictable and should have been expected results. Basically, the Packers have reaped what they sewed by their actions or lack there of in regards to the WR position.

Big Picture:

1. Davante Adams was the last high draft pick used on the position, a late 2nd round pick (#53) in 2014.
2. 3 starters since that time were allowed to walk (Jones, Nelson, Cobb)
3. Gute invested a 4th, 5th and 6th round into the position in 2018. None of those WR's have fully panned out yet IMO. The 4th round pick had 2 career catches and is out of football.
4. Devin Funchess is the only FA WR of any substance signed in a long time.
5. Long list of WR's, mostly mid-late round or UDFA's have paraded through GB in the last 10 years, Lazard at the moment seems the only one to have shown potential.

I'm sure there are some things I missed, but when you add it all up, I don't know why anyone is surprised that we currently have 1 starting caliber WR on the 53 man roster.

Let's face it, the Packers have a FHOF QB in #12 and he has been able to make up for a lot of the deficiencies at the WR position. I just can't imagine how much better this team could have been some seasons, had Rodgers had better weapons at his disposal.

Since Gutekunst and LaFleur took over together in Green Bay, the Packers are 18-4 and 1-1 in the postseason. They have elite talent at literally every premium position on the field. And yet some fans can't do anything but constantly ***** that he hasn't signed, traded for, or drafted a guy at the position they're preoccupied with.

You literally said that you'd be glad if the offense face planted just to illustrate the point that they need more WR help. It's to the point that you're ok with failure just so long as it vindicates your prolonged temper tantrum.

It's ok to be happy that the Packers are good.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Where now:

Tier 1: Adams
Tier 2: Lazard
Tier 3/4: Funchess
Tier 4/5: MVS
Tier 5: ESB, Darrius, Malik and others...and I sense a draft pick as well as expressed.

Looks a lot like 2019 IMO:

• Adams
• GMO
• Davis
• MVS
• ESB
• Kumerow

Funchess was paid very similar to GMO (1 year $2.5/2.8M) and I expect about the same from a guy that basically hasn't played since 2018. Interesting enough, GMO sat out this year due to COVID too.

There was a lot of optimism (not by me) when the 2019 season was nearing, it was thought that we had a lot of young up and coming talent. Davis is out of football, Kumerow is on the Bills PS. So in 2021, having MVS, ESB for a 4th straight year trying to prove themselves doesn't excite me and same with Shepherd possibly going into a 3rd year.

Sorry, as of today about the only guy that I have seen improve over the last 2 seasons is Lazard and I am still not 100% sold that he is legit for the long haul.

This WR group has been built on hopes and prayers for 2+ seasons now and I am not even going to let you persuade me to get excited about it in 2021 But....we still have the rest of 2020 for these youngsters to crank it up!

 

[Heyjoe4]

Before you get too excited, this was the same scenario as a year ago. Just substitute GMO for ESB. Hate to beat a dead horse, but as long as we have #12 and #17, it seems that Gute and the Packers are pretty comfortable with the position. I hope they prove that statement to be very wrong.

I can't call Funchess a success because he's not playing. Lazard is out. Not every team is the Texans so expect more safety help on Adams. MSB has topped out, ESB can't catch a ball, and I don't remember the other guys in the WR room. Tonyan has helped, but needs to make that consistent. As the season goes on, opposing Ds will get better at covering Rodgers and Adams. Don't get me wrong, at 5-1 I'm not complaining. But how far can this WR go?

 

[tynimiller]

ESB can't catch a ball, and I don't remember the other guys in the WR room.

Hang on....this claim struck me as odd. VERY LIMITED times in games so not sure where this claim of ESB being unable to catch comes from but here's the stats I could find:

2018 (11 games) he had 21 receptions on 38 targets. That's total targets. According to playerprofile.com he was credited with zero drops that year, a catch rate of 58.3% and boasted a true catch rate of 80.8%

2020 he has had 2 targets, 1 drop and no receptions.

For reference few Lazard lines:

2019 (11 games same as ESB's 2018 as far as games)
He had 13 receptions on 17 targets. That's total targets. According to playerprofile.com he was credited with 3 drops that year, catch rate of 67.3% and boasted a true catch rate of 86.7%

On 21 fewer targets Lazard in 2018 boasted higher catch rates but had more deemed drops than ESB in 2019.

I mean no one has the evidence to believe ESB is or will for sure become even what Lazard is now, but to say he can't catch a ball is a gross overstatement.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Hang on....this claim struck me as odd. VERY LIMITED times in games so not sure where this claim of ESB being unable to catch comes from but here's the stats I could find:

2018 (11 games) he had 21 receptions on 38 targets. That's total targets. According to playerprofile.com he was credited with zero drops that year, a catch rate of 58.3% and boasted a true catch rate of 80.8%

2020 he has had 2 targets, 1 drop and no receptions.

For reference few Lazard lines:

2019 (11 games same as ESB's 2018 as far as games)
He had 13 receptions on 17 targets. That's total targets. According to playerprofile.com he was credited with 3 drops that year, catch rate of 67.3% and boasted a true catch rate of 86.7%

On 21 fewer targets Lazard in 2018 boasted higher catch rates but had more deemed drops than ESB in 2019.

I mean no one has the evidence to believe ESB is or will for sure become even what Lazard is now, but to say he can't catch a ball is a gross overstatement.

That's fair. I just don't think much of ESB (subjective) and woulddn't think to compare him to Lazard as far as who I want on the field come money time. MVS and ESB have been around for 3 years now. I think wee've seen their ceilings.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

ESB and MVS "might" turn into decent, reliable receivers. The issue the Packers have is that they currently have one of the best QBs in the NFL and should be focused on trying to get that QB some reliable weapons. Instead, it has appeared the Packers are trying to rely on Rodgers to keep them afloat while they build for the future in the hopes that one day, maybe 5 years from now, they'll have QB almost as good as the one they have now.