Calling Time-out

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Why does the NFL allow timeouts called AFTER the play started, sometimes even after the ball is snapped??

Seems to me there should be a time limit on when the plays are stopped.
Has that always been like that that I never noticed?
Maybe there's a advantage to this I'm not understanding.

It even looks like some of the players are surprised when their own team call timeout while executing a play.

 

[El Guapo]

It's usually the coach standing next to the ref on the sideline, waiting for the play clock to hit a certain point before zero, and then calling timeout. The action of timeout combined with the reaction time of the ref often allows time for the play to begin even though the referee heard the coach call TO before the play began.

I suspect they don't show us the instances where a coach tried to call TO and the ref ignored it because the ball had already been snapped.

 

[n4t]

They don't.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've never seen a timeout granted, that was called after the ball was snapped.

What I have seen and it could be so easily fixed, is the ball snapped after the play clock has expired and the refs let it go. Why have a play clock if you aren't going to enforce it?

The easy fix, just like other sports, have a horn go off, and/or a big white spotlight shine onto the field when the play clock hits zero.

The NFL seems so concerned about over-ruling or stepping on referees toes, that I have to wonder if the Referees Union doesn't have a filing cabinet full of incriminating stuff on the NFL.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

I've never seen a timeout granted, that was called after the ball was snapped.

What I have seen and it could be so easily fixed, is the ball snapped after the play clock has expired and the refs let it go. Why have a play clock if you aren't going to enforce it?

The easy fix, just like other sports, have a horn go off, and/or a big white spotlight shine onto the field when the play clock hits zero.

The NFL seems so concerned about over-ruling or stepping on referees toes, that I have to wonder if the Referees Union doesn't have a filing cabinet full of incriminating stuff on the NFL.

The discussion I've heard regarding this is that the ump who watches the clock then switches his eyes to the center to confirm if it's snapped, so there is a less than second delay, but it does happen.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The discussion I've heard regarding this is that the ump who watches the clock then switches his eyes to the center to confirm if it's snapped, so there is a less than second delay, but it does happen.

Yup. My point being, the technology to remove the human error of this has been around and being used in other sports, for 50 plus years. Yet, the NFL continues to say "we do the best we can, the refs can't watch everything." I would rather see the back judge focused on other things.

 

[gopkrs]

Not sure I like taking the human element out of everything we can

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not sure I like taking the human element out of everything we can

I understand some prefer the purist way that sports used to be played, coached and officiated. No replays, no challenges, no headsets, no tablets, etc. However, that left most sports a long time ago, including Football. So while I don't think it is a bad thing to leave the "human element" to officiating, that is to physically have them on the field, there are many ways to make sure that the human element is correct and fair.

 

[gopkrs]

I understand some prefer the purist way that sports used to be played, coached and officiated. No replays, no challenges, no headsets, no tablets, etc. However, that left most sports a long time ago, including Football. So while I don't think it is a bad thing to leave the "human element" to officiating, that is to physically have them on the field, there are many ways to make sure that the human element is correct and fair.

With you it seems to be totally black or white. I only said I am not sure I like taking the human element out of everything we can. I think you would like to do just that. And as AI gets better and better that will be a godawful lot of stuff.

 

[milani]

Not sure I like taking the human element out of everything we can

Like Tommy Lasorda used to say. " Let's not show up the umpire. " " That's MY job! "

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With you it seems to be totally black or white. I only said I am not sure I like taking the human element out of everything we can. I think you would like to do just that. And as AI gets better and better that will be a godawful lot of stuff.

AI will some day play the game and we as fans, might not even notice.

I think you are mistaking my desire to get black and white calls correct, with replacing humans with machines. An expired play or game clock isn't a judgement call at all, the clock hits zero or it doesn't. Like I started my whole conversation with, if you aren't going to strictly/consistently enforce a play clock, then why have one? It's a super easy thing to enforce with technology, and doing so would free the back judge up for doing other things.

 

[tynimiller]

They don't.

This ^

 

[El Guapo]

Yup. My point being, the technology to remove the human error of this has been around and being used in other sports, for 50 plus years. Yet, the NFL continues to say "we do the best we can, the refs can't watch everything." I would rather see the back judge focused on other things.

I don't see this as an error. Everyone knows that the process includes the half-second it takes for the ref to see the clock and then the ball. It's a quirk of the mechanics and works the same way for all teams. I am okay with this inexactitude in the game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's a quirk of the mechanics and works the same way for all teams.

Yet, it doesn't.

 

[Guacamole]

Why does the NFL allow timeouts called AFTER the play started, sometimes even after the ball is snapped??

they never have and never will.....don't know what games you are watching

 

[El Guapo]

Yet, it doesn't.

Explain

 

[tynimiller]

Yet, it doesn't.

What...you're gonna need to expound on this claim.

 

[gopkrs]

I'm pretty sure he means that sometimes the offense gets away with being late and sometimes they don't. Even in the same game. I've seen that

 

[tynimiller]

I'm pretty sure he means that sometimes the offense gets away with being late and sometimes they don't. Even in the same game. I've seen that

But that isn't a fair for one and not the other. The mechanics of the call remain the exact same. Unless they institute some bogus time clock buzzer to go off I think how they do it is fine....and the buzzer would be crazy annoying

 

[Heyjoe4]

Why does the NFL allow timeouts called AFTER the play started, sometimes even after the ball is snapped??

Seems to me there should be a time limit on when the plays are stopped.
Has that always been like that that I never noticed?
Maybe there's a advantage to this I'm not understanding.

It even looks like some of the players are surprised when their own team call timeout while executing a play.

Good question and I've thought the same thing. I think what happens is that just before the ball is snapped, the HC calls a timeout. The players are still trying to avoid a delay penalty and so the snap occur most of the time.

It happens a lot on FGs. The opponent waits until the last millisecond, and by then the ball has been snapped and so the outcome meaningless. It worked for the Bears against the Packers. As the half ended, McManus hit from 54 I think, butm timeout had been called. He made that kick, and then when it really counted, he missed.

Anyway I think that's what happens.

 

[milani]

Good question and I've thought the same thing. I think what happens is that just before the ball is snapped, the HC calls a timeout. The players are still trying to avoid a delay penalty and so the snap occur most of the time.

It happens a lot on FGs. The opponent waits until the last millisecond, and by then the ball has been snapped and so the outcome meaningless. It worked for the Bears against the Packers. As the half ended, McManus hit from 54 I think, butm timeout had been called. He made that kick, and then when it really counted, he missed.

Anyway I think that's what happens.

That has happened to kickers across the league. The Vikings did it to Crosby in the game that ended in a tie. And he missed the second one. The Cowboys did it in the playoff game. But Crosby responded by making it.
What would have to change is that they remove the ability of the sideline to call timeouts and leave it up to someone on the field. You would need a Rodgers on your offense or a Ray Lewis on your defense. Coaches would have to signal or contact someone on the field to do it.
Remember when the Jets hit a long TD pass against us and it was called back. One of Rex's assistants signaled for a TO before the snap. Rex was like..HUH!.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Explain

But that isn't a fair for one and not the other. The mechanics of the call remain the exact same. Unless they institute some bogus time clock buzzer to go off I think how they do it is fine....and the buzzer would be crazy annoying

The "mechanics of the call" are prone to human error and thus can be viewed as fair and unfair, depending on which team it negatively impacts.

So this potential for error could easily be removed by using simple technology.

Don't like a buzzer going off and stopping play when the play clock hits zero? Than have the sound of a whistle, at the same audible level of a refs go off. Don't like that? Than simply have the sideline LOS marker emit a red beam of light across the field as soon as the play clock hits zero and the RFID device, that is already inside of all balls, indicates that the ball has yet to be snapped.

Honestly, I would love to see them use that same technology (LOS beam) to determine if the defense actually jumps offsides before the ball is snapped.

I find it pathetically comical that play will be stopped to determine if a 12th man, running to get off the field, still had 1 foot on the field before the ball was snapped. However, snapping the ball after the play clock expires, isn't that important. I bet it would suddenly be REALLY important if that play resulted in a game winning TD.

 

[tynimiller]

The "mechanics of the call" are prone to human error and thus can be viewed as fair and unfair, depending on which team it negatively impacts.

So this potential for error could easily be removed by using simple technology.

Don't like a buzzer going off and stopping play when the play clock hits zero? Than have the sound of a whistle, at the same audible level of a refs go off. Don't like that? Than simply have the sideline LOS marker emit a red beam of light across the field as soon as the play clock hits zero and the RFID device, that is already inside of all balls, indicates that the ball has yet to be snapped.

Honestly, I would love to see them use that same technology (LOS beam) to determine if the defense actually jumps offsides before the ball is snapped.

I find it pathetically comical that play will be stopped to determine if a 12th man, running to get off the field, still had 1 foot on the field before the ball was snapped. However, snapping the ball after the play clock expires, isn't that important. I bet it would suddenly be REALLY important if that play resulted in a game winning TD.

It cannot be viewed as unfair though - the same process is followed for both teams. I get not liking it, but the unfair thing or bias is bogus claim IMO

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It cannot be viewed as unfair though - the same process is followed for both teams. I get not liking it, but the unfair thing or bias is bogus claim IMO

Sure it can be viewed as unfair, when it is called immediately when the clock hits zero or not called, when the ball is snapped seconds after the clock hit zero. Using "human error" and "the same process" as being the same, just isn't accurate at all. I have seen times in games when it is missed sometimes, but still called at other times.

I mean why wait to enforce the play clock after 1, 2 or 3 seconds of its expiration? Should they set the play clock at 37 seconds instead of 40 to make up for that? Oh wait, you still have the margin of human error.

What if I told you that they had the technology to call offensive holding or pass interference calls equally and correctly ALL the time? Or are you fine with those just being a judgement call, because that makes them equal?

 

[gopkrs]

Pretty soon we won't need players. Just bios and plug them in.