Defending Janis

[Sunshinepacker]

Tretter?

I might be wrong on this but I don't recall Tretter being injured in college and, in the NFL, Tretter suffered tore his meniscus which cost him the starting job. Outside of that injury, has Tretter been injured that often?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think the notion that the reason Abby was still in the game was so they could see if he can stay healthy is silly. His ability to play is dependent on him being healthy now and not can he stay healthy in the future. You give guys more reps to help them work back from an injury or to "knock the rust off" or you give them more reps because they simply need them to get up to speed. You don't give them more reps to see if they get injured or not. Its not like McCarthy is going to say "I''d like to put Abby in there, he's a great WR but I'm just not sure if he can stay healthy. I wish I would have given him more reps in the preseason to see if he can stay healthy" If he is healthy and he knows his stuff he will play. Besides, I'm not sure what a player staying healthy through the preseason has to do with whether or not he will stay healthy during the regular season.

Perhaps when considering 2 equal players and deciding which one will make the team and which one will be cut the injury issue factors in but but I don't think a player being able to stay healthy for an extra half a game is going to sway anyone's opinion.

I think the reason Abby was still in the game that late was because we had 5 other WRs already out of the game and he still needs the reps. Its that simple. I don't think it is any indicator of how close he is to making the team or getting cut.

I never said the ONLY reason he was in the game was to see how tough he was but it would be silly to assume the coaches aren't looking for evidence that Abby can take some hits before they decide if he has a place on the roster. The fact is that he has not been able to stay healthy for very long when actually playing in live game action in the NFL and it would be nice if the coaches could see him take some hits and keep playing.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I might be wrong on this but I don't recall Tretter being injured in college and, in the NFL, Tretter suffered tore his meniscus which cost him the starting job. Outside of that injury, has Tretter been injured that often?

Tretter suffered a broken ankle during his first practice with the Packers during OTAs in 2013 and was sidelined until week 15 of his rookie season as well. He was inactive for the rest of that year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO the reason we are seeing a lot of Abby is pretty simple, Packers view him as a player that could be seeing playing time come the regular season. Whether its at WR or returning kicks/punts. Due to various injuries and his position on the depth chart, he hasn't been on the field a lot and now is the time to get him those reps as well as make sure he is the real deal. Only one out of his 3 previous NFL injuries occurred while playing in "live game action in the NFL". He tore his ACL and suffered a concussion in training camps. He sustained a rib injury last year on a catch in Detroit that kept him out of the next 2 games. Playing him now isn't to find out if he is made out of glass or steel, its merely to evaluate a player that AR and the Packer Coaches appear to be pretty high on.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I might be wrong on this but I don't recall Tretter being injured in college and, in the NFL, Tretter suffered tore his meniscus which cost him the starting job. Outside of that injury, has Tretter been injured that often?

Did abby miss time in college I am not aware of? It looks like he played 13 or more games each season. So at most he miss 1 game a year or two

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Tretter suffered a broken ankle during his first practice with the Packers during OTAs in 2013 and was sidelined until week 15 of his rookie season as well. He was inactive for the rest of that year.

Ok, so then he doesn't have much of an injury history then. Just a freak play that broke his ankle?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Did abby miss time in college I am not aware of? It looks like he played 13 or more games each season. So at most he miss 1 game a year or two

Abby missed a bit of time with concussions in College. Which is probably the one nagging fear when it comes to Abby, will another concussion possibly end his career? But the same could be said for any player who decides brain injuries just aren't worth the risk (Abby's fellow teammate and friend Chris Borland). Abby has publicly stated that 2 of the 3 "concussions" he sustained in college were very minor and in general he isn't worried about it.

September 2012 against Oregon State he sustained a concussion and sat out the next game.

He also suffered head injuries against Penn State in November 2012 and against Northwestern Oct. 2013 but only sat out the remainder of those prospective games.

The Badgers played in at least 13 games/season and twice 14 (Big 10 Championship 2011 and 2012) durings Abby's UW career.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ok, so then he doesn't have much of an injury history then. Just a freak play that broke his ankle?

Well, he missed his first one and a half years with the team, not sure if that makes him injury-prone.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Did abby miss time in college I am not aware of? It looks like he played 13 or more games each season. So at most he miss 1 game a year or two

The main reason he fell in the draft was because of concussion concerns. His talent was above a fifth round pick but people were worried about his durability and concussion history:

CBS draft profile: ...questionable durability with several concussions over his career and other minor injuries
NFL.com: ...history of concussions
ESPN: concerns about concussion history

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well, he missed his first one and a half years with the team, not sure if that makes him injury-prone.

I don't look at a broken bone as being injury prone. Sherrod wasn't injury prone just because he suffered what turned out to be a career ending broken leg (yes, he played again but was never the same after that injury).

 

[bigbubbatd]

I guess i see concussions as different than other injuries. They are weird thing and I can't imagine the team is throwing Abbrederis out there to see if he is going to have another concussion. They would likely do the opposite to limit hits. I don't see anyway the Packers cut a guy bc he might get another concussion. If that was the case they would have cut him last year instead of praising him all the time

 

[Poppa San]

I don't look at a broken bone as being injury prone. Sherrod wasn't injury prone just because he suffered what turned out to be a career ending broken leg (yes, he played again but was never the same after that injury).

By the start of his third season, Tretter had missed a year and a half due to injury. First season mostly gone due to ankle injury in OTA. second season half gone because of knee injury in preseason game. That is tantamount to injury prone in my book, if you use the same stats for Abby and term him injury prone. BTW, I can't find a cite but I recall a knock on A. Rodgers, before he became the starter, as being made of glass and "one hit" from being out of football due to prior concussions.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

BTW, I can't find a cite but I recall a knock on A. Rodgers, before he became the starter, as being made of glass and "one hit" from being out of football due to prior concussions.

Well, Rodgers had several injuries before he became the Packers starter as he tore an ACL in college, broke his foot in 2006 and missed several games in 2007 because of a hamstring injury. As far as I know he didn´t suffer a concussion before the 2010 season though.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

By the start of his third season, Tretter had missed a year and a half due to injury. First season mostly gone due to ankle injury in OTA. second season half gone because of knee injury in preseason game. That is tantamount to injury prone in my book, if you use the same stats for Abby and term him injury prone. BTW, I can't find a cite but I recall a knock on A. Rodgers, before he became the starter, as being made of glass and "one hit" from being out of football due to prior concussions.

It's been proven that every concussion makes you more prone to future concussions. So a guy that's had multiple concussions is going to be riskier than a guy who has had freak plays that broke bones. One broken ankle doesn't mean a player is more likely to break that same ankle going forward.

 

[adambr2]

I think Nelson and Cobb are locks obviously and Adams and Abbrederis are close to locks. I think they will keep 2 of 3 of Janis, Davis, and Allison and try to sneak the other onto the PS.

I think Janis is still a good bet as long as his injury isn't expected to sideline him long. There's no guarantee Davis can replicate Janis' special teams play.

 

[Pkrjones]

...I think they will keep 2 of 4 of Montgomery, Janis, Davis, and Allison and try to sneak the other onto the PS...

Corrected this for you

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think Nelson and Cobb are locks obviously and Adams and Abbrederis are close to locks. I think they will keep 2 of 3 of Janis, Davis, and Allison and try to sneak the other onto the PS.

I consider Montgomery to be close to a lock to make the final roster as well.

 

[sschind]

Well, he missed his first one and a half years with the team, not sure if that makes him injury-prone.

If it was just that one injury that made him miss the time I would say no.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Barring injuries or phenomenal play by Allison or Davis in the last 2 preseason games, they seem to be the most likely PS candidates. 5th round and later WR's are plentiful in the NFL which will probably keep them safe.

Would have to think that Montgomery and most likely Janis would round out the 5th and 6th WR's.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Barring injuries or phenomenal play by Allison or Davis in the last 2 preseason games, they seem to be the most likely PS candidates. 5th round and later WR's are plentiful in the NFL which will probably keep them safe.

Would have to think that Montgomery and most likely Janis would round out the 5th and 6th WR's.

Davis making the roster most likely hinges on Janis status for the start of the regular season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Davis making the roster most likely hinges on Janis status for the start of the regular season.

If Janis goes on IR, I don't see the Packers using their one move to reactivate him later, unless there is nobody on IR of greater value in week....12ish. From what I have read Janis could be placed on the PUP and brought back by week 6, which would be more likely given his injury. This would allow Davis or Allison the #6 spot on the 53, at least temporarily.

I always debate this in my head if its easier to "sneak" guys onto the PS during the final cut to 53, when other teams are in the middle of the same process and may not be actively looking for players from other teams. Compared to trying to sneak a guy over in week 3 when it may be the only NFL roster move that day and more attention from other teams is given to it. But I am guessing that no matter when a player is moved over to the PS, if he has some talent that others want on their team, the risk is pretty equal no matter when the move is made. Any organization worth its salt has to be constantly evaluating talent that is on other teams PS.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Janis goes on IR, I don't see the Packers using their one move to reactivate him later, unless there is nobody on IR of greater value in week....12ish. From what I have read Janis could be placed on the PUP and brought back by week 6, which would be more likely given his injury. This would allow Davis or Allison the #6 spot on the 53, at least temporarily.

Janis can't be put on the PUP list because he practiced during training camp.

I always debate this in my head if its easier to "sneak" guys onto the PS during the final cut to 53, when other teams are in the middle of the same process and may not be actively looking for players from other teams. Compared to trying to sneak a guy over in week 3 when it may be the only NFL roster move that day and more attention from other teams is given to it. But I am guessing that no matter when a player is moved over to the PS, if he has some talent that others want on their team, the risk is pretty equal no matter when the move is made. Any organization worth its salt has to be constantly evaluating talent that is on other teams PS.

I guess that teams spend a ton of time on analyzing players being cut at the time rosters have to be reduced to 53. There's no way to sneak a guy other clubs are interested in on the practice squad even at that point.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Janis can't be put on the PUP list because he practiced during training camp.

Appears you are correct. I read it the wrong way in one article and found this to be more clear:

"Once a player practices during training camp, all PUP list options are off the table"

 

[PackerDNA]

There's a bit more of an advantage now to putting a guy on IR/designated to return, since you no longer have to name someone in advance.

 

[adambr2]

I consider Montgomery to be close to a lock to make the final roster as well.

Don't know how I forgot about him. Montgomery is right there with Adams and Abby, I agree, as a near lock. That leaves Janis, Davis, and Allison on the bubble with only 1 spot available IMO as I see no way they keep 7 WRs. If Janis stays I would guess they try to get both Davis and Allison on the PS.

IR is certainly a viable option for Janis and one they may use with a potential availability for him late in the season depending on how things shake out otherwise with the WRs and injuries.