Defending Janis

[bigbubbatd]

What is a Hail Mary in football?
A Hail Mary pass or Hail Mary route is a very long forward pass in American football, made in desperation with only a small chance of success, especially at or near the end of a half. Source: Hail Mary pass

Just Googled it. This should be the definitive answer right

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sticking with this:

A Hail Mary pass is a very long forward pass in American football, made in desperation with only a small chance of success. In the Hail Mary pass all receivers run straight toward the endzone and the quarterback will make a long pass that is often "up for grabs."

The expression goes back at least to the 1930s, being used publicly in that decade by two former members of Notre Dame's Four Horsemen, Elmer Laydenand Jim Crowley. Originally meaning any sort of desperation play, a "Hail Mary" gradually came to denote a long, low-probability pass attempted at the end of a half when a team is too far from the end zone to execute a more conventional play, implying that it would take divine intervention for the play to succeed. For more than forty years, use of the term was largely confined to Notre Dame and other Catholic universities.

BTW......found it odd that even James Jones was to the end zone faster then Janis on that play. I am just glad Janis had the speed to catch up to the ball in the endzone.....had he caught it at the 10 yard line, he may not score.

 

[TeamTundra]

[QUOTE="Pokerbrat2000, post: 668386, member: 7261.]

BTW......found it odd that even James Jones was to the end zone faster then Janis on that play. I am just glad Janis had the speed to catch up to the ball in the endzone.....had he caught it at the 10 yard line, he may not score.[/QUOTE]


Go back and watch the previous few plays. Janis was sent deep on almost every play in that drive so he
was probably somewhat winded by the final play. He probably had to sprint/jog over 300 yards
Back and forth to the line of scrimmage on that drive.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

You are about the only person that makes that distinction. Most of the media, the fans, and most likely the players involved ALL refer to the plays at the end of the Lions and Cardinal games as Hail Mary plays.

I would agree in the sense that in one sense, any late, long do-or-die throw is commonly called a hail mary. But there is also the actual hail mary play that is designed to be nothing but a jump ball with as many of your receivers in the area as possible.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Janis wasn't wide open at the catch point during the Hail Mary vs. the Cardinals though. He had to fight Patrick Peterson and Rashad Johnson for the ball. It doesn't matter he was open before entering the end zone as the defensive backs are obviously only defending that area of the field.

Fair enough on being open. But more importantly, he did fight Peterson and Johnson for that ball... and won; and those are two damn good players.

 

[yooperpackfan]

BTW......found it odd that even James Jones was to the end zone faster then Janis on that play.

I feel like that may have been a designed part of that "hail mary".

 

[Poppa San]

I feel like that may have been a designed part of that "hail mary".

I've come to agree with that. If Rodgers has to toss it short based on the rush, someone has to be within range to at least try to catch it. The fact he could launch the pass to the endzone both times gave Janis & RR time to get there when the ball came down.
*note* I define launch in this play as a high long pass designed to maximize flight time as opposed to a normal throw which attempts to minimize flight time in order to get the ball to the receiver ASAP.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But more importantly, he did fight Peterson and Johnson for that ball... and won; and those are two damn good players.

There's absolutely no doubt Janis made a great catch against an elite cornerback and a decent safety.

 

[sschind]

Hey now. Hey now. Ease up on my fellow Alumnus, Samkon. He is Dr. Gado now. A head and neck surgeon in an ENT department. He had several good games in a row before he got injured and went on IR. He might not have been outstanding, but he was solid.

He made no secret that football was not his top priority. He wanted to go into the medical field and eventually help his people in Nigeria. A long career in football was not what he was after. So it's tough to compare him to guys who want to make football their life.

Nigeria? Maybe he's the one sending me all those damned emails.

 

[sschind]

This has been said many times before but I think it bears repeating. I don't think anyone wants Janis to fail in the NFL. We are all Packer fans and even the Badger fans want whats best for the Packers. If that is Abby then so be it but if it turns out to be Janis I think the vast majority of Packer fans will be fine with it. I also don't think anyone is saying Janis CAN'T be the guy we are just saying that, so far, we haven't seen him be that guy yet. I for one do think he can be a productive member of the Packers. I also think its equally possible that he becomes best known as the answer for the trivia question Name the only WR in NFL history to record 101 yards receiving on a single drive? (Admittedly I do not know if that is true I am assuming that is the case)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I also think its equally possible that he becomes best known as the answer for the trivia question Name the only WR in NFL history to record 101 yards receiving on a single drive? (Admittedly I do not know if that is true I am assuming that is the case)

I'm sorry I have to correct you on that one. While I don't know if that is the record in NFL history but Mike Evans had 104 receiving yards on a single drive vs. the Redskins in week 11 of the 2014 season.

 

[sschind]

I'm sorry I have to correct you on that one. While I don't know if that is the record in NFL history but Mike Evans had 104 receiving yards on a single drive vs. the Redskins in week 11 of the 2014 season.

Oh man, I was afraid of that. I know when Janis did it everyone was saying it but I never heard it verified. I knew if anyone could set me straight though it would be you WIMM. Thanks.

Although I did say 101 yards and not 104 so technically I may still be correct

 

[bigbubbatd]

Not a great start for Janis. From the Journal Sentinel today. Sounds so similar to past years

"But on Tuesday, he had two bad plays that he'll have to learn from quickly.

On the first, Janis had difficulty tracking a deep shot from Rodgers, and it led to an interception. As the ball was in flight, Janis cut inside cornerback Sam Shields, but the throw sailed several yards beyond Janis, and Shields intercepted.

On the second, also against Shields, Rodgers made a sight adjustment and tried a back-shoulder throw to Janis along the sidelines. But Janis continued his route straight down field, so the throw was well behind him and incomplete.

Janis' reaction after the second play suggested he knew immediately that the error was his. Shortly afterward Rodgers went over to Janis, and was making hand gestures while presumably telling the receiver why he should have read it as a back-shoulder throw."

http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packer...ay-practice-report-b99768414z1-388490721.html

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not a great start for Janis. From the Journal Sentinel today. Sounds so similar to past years

"But on Tuesday, he had two bad plays that he'll have to learn from quickly.

On the first, Janis had difficulty tracking a deep shot from Rodgers, and it led to an interception. As the ball was in flight, Janis cut inside cornerback Sam Shields, but the throw sailed several yards beyond Janis, and Shields intercepted.

On the second, also against Shields, Rodgers made a sight adjustment and tried a back-shoulder throw to Janis along the sidelines. But Janis continued his route straight down field, so the throw was well behind him and incomplete.

Janis' reaction after the second play suggested he knew immediately that the error was his. Shortly afterward Rodgers went over to Janis, and was making hand gestures while presumably telling the receiver why he should have read it as a back-shoulder throw."

http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packer...ay-practice-report-b99768414z1-388490721.html

There was hope that Janis finally had fully grasped the playbook at the start of his third training camp but it seems he still hasn't been able to figure it out.

That's disappointing and will for sure result in him not getting significant playing time. I'm not optimistic that he will be able to improve his knowledge of the offense until the start of the regular season if he hasn't gotten it by now.

 

[bigbubbatd]

There was hope that Janis finally had fully grasped the playbook at the start of his third training camp but it seems he still hasn't been able to figure it out.

That's disappointing and will for sure result in him not getting significant playing time. I'm not optimistic that he will be able to improve his knowledge of the offense until the start of the regular season if he hasn't gotten it by now.

If your Rodgers there is a point where even if Janis is on the field you just won't throw his way because you dont trust him. If Janis is making mental miatakes that lead to ints or incomplete passes in practice there is no way Rodgers is looking for him in games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If your Rodgers there is a point where even if Janis is on the field you just won't throw his way because you dont trust him. If Janis is making mental miatakes that lead to ints or incomplete passes in practice there is no way Rodgers is looking for him in games.

I guess that Janis will only get snaps in desperation mode when he´s allowed to freelance a bit. There´s no way the coaching staff will design plays that has him as the primary target as long as he doesn´t fully grasp the plabook.

 

[Pkrjones]

Really??? A guy has 2 bad plays on the 2nd or 3rd day of training camp and he's being written off?

Cobb must really suck, as he and AR had a miscommunication on a sideline route AND it's Cobb's 6th year in the system!!! Absolutely unbelievable that he still can't read AR's mind, guy should be cut immediately.

With Jordy out most (or much) of the preseason Janis will get plenty of reps with the 1's & 2's. If he's still making mistakes by week 4 or 5 then I could understand the concern...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Really??? A guy has 2 bad plays on the 2nd or 3rd day of training camp and he's being written off?

With Jordy out most (or much) of the preseason Janis will get plenty of reps with the 1's & 2's. If he's still making mistakes by week 4 or 5 then I could understand the concern...

Janis has been making the same mistakes for three years running. The two bad plays during yesterday´s practice serve as evidence that he still has troubles understanding the offense.

I don´t see any reason to be optimistic about him fully grasping the playbook until the start of the regular season if he hasn´t been able to do that by now.

 

[Mondio]

When a guy like Jordy or Cobb has a history of being in the right place at the right time for seasons and producing has a few bad plays in early training camp, I causually note and then forget about it. When a guy that has had the same issues for 3 years running is committing the same mistakes, I think it's more of an issue. But I can still count the number of practices on about half of one hand, so there's a lot of time before it really counts.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Really??? A guy has 2 bad plays on the 2nd or 3rd day of training camp and he's being written off?

Cobb must really suck, as he and AR had a miscommunication on a sideline route AND it's Cobb's 6th year in the system!!! Absolutely unbelievable that he still can't read AR's mind, guy should be cut immediately.

With Jordy out most (or much) of the preseason Janis will get plenty of reps with the 1's & 2's. If he's still making mistakes by week 4 or 5 then I could understand the concern...

Janis made the same mistakes last year and it kept him off the field. Mini camp reports said he was making similar mistakes and now in the first couple practices he was making the same mistakes. That is worrisome. Not sure why it wouldnt be. Just like it worrisome if Matshay is still shanking punts, Adams is dropping passes he should catch or Lacy looks like a offensive tackle. Reoccurring problems are not the same as one bad practice. This is a reoccurring problem. It has not been with Cobb.

 

[easyk83]

Janis has been making the same mistakes for three years running. The two bad plays during yesterday´s practice serve as evidence that he still has troubles understanding the offense.

I don´t see any reason to be optimistic about him fully grasping the playbook until the start of the regular season if he hasn´t been able to do that by now.

Actually I'd say that the misread on a backshoulder route shows his progression, he wasn't really being asked to read defenses before.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Actually I'd say that the misread on a backshoulder route shows his progression, he wasn't really being asked to read defenses before.

What? Every wr is asked to read defenses. Where are you getting that info from? Everyone who lines up outside for the Packers needs to read a defense to run the back shoulder route.

 

[easyk83]

What? Every wr is asked to read defenses. Where are you getting that info from? Everyone who lines up outside for the Packers needs to read a defense to run the back shoulder route.

I remember reading that he wasn't being asked to read defenses, just do the basics. Be in the right place at the right time kind of stuff. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Actually I'd say that the misread on a backshoulder route shows his progression, he wasn't really being asked to read defenses before.

I agree with bigbubba that misreading a back shoulder throw doesn't show any progress.

 

[easyk83]

QB Aaron Rodgers on Jeff Janis: "Jeff is bigger than he was last year, and playing bigger."

This was after that first practice.

Player progression is tricky, sometimes as the role and responsibility expands they exhibit new weaknesses and mistakes. If Janis is F-ing up back shoulder throws it suggests that he's improved on things like starting his break in the right place, and continuing his route through the right trajectory. Again this isn't exactly flattering, it reflects just how underdeveloped he was. But saying he hasn't improved as a receiver would be inaccurate.