Defending Janis

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

I believe we knew all along Jeff was a project and was a bit raw and would take extra time to develop as a dedicated WR which is why he was put on ST (which he dominated btw). IF Jeff continues to improve even in the slightest? He will be one of the most valuable 7th round picks weve acquired in years.

There are many who simply don't want to give him any time to develop his game. Why? People were patient with Driver. I think the majority of the negativity toward Janis stems from the fact that he has been Abbrederis's direct competition to make the roster the last two years. Many are quietly (and some not so quietly) hoping for him to fail so the local favorite can be assured of a roster spot. It's probably time for them to redirect that contempt at Davis and Allison, since those will be his direct competition for a spot this year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, he was pretty much handed a roster spot on a golden platter and got a quick ticket to to playing time and he did very little with it once they put him there. He had 3 catches in one game, 4 in another and was Mr. Invisible the rest of the time.

Abbrederis played a total of 200 snaps last season and caught 15 balls for 180 yards. On the other hand Janis had nine receptions for 224 yards on 176 snaps.

Even by having two miraculous catches on Hail Marys Janis wasn't more productive than Abbrederis.

You're right. And it is for that very reason that with Abbrederis, pretty much is what he is. He doesn't have a whole lot of upside left to exploit, unless he finds a way to increase his athletic ability. Football isn't chess. You have to be smart, but you have to be an athlete too, and that is where he is limited. Both players have their limitations at this moment, but the limitations Janis has are more easily (and are being) overcome than Abbrederis's limitations.

There are other ways than being extremely athletic for a wide receiver to get open. According to the Packers head coach Abbrederis' route running is exemplary for a young guy and his ability to recognize coverages, his time clock, his breaking points, his ability to drop his weight is exceptional. Once again a WR doesn't have to be smart as a rocket scientist but Rodgers has made it clear that a player not knowing the playbook won't get on the field with him.

Look I know some fans still dream of Abbrederis starting this year.

I haven't seen a single poster suggesting Abbrederis will start opposite of Nelson. There's a distinct possibility he will make the final roster and stay ahead of Janis on the depth chart though.

Okay, then it shouldn't be too hard for you to supply a few of those reports. I could only find one.

What drops (plural) are you referring to? Obviously there's the Hundley throw but that's the only one I could find direct reference to.

I follow several of the Packers beat reporters on Twitter and there were several reports of Janis running the wrong route. I won't go back several weeks in my timeline to find those tweets again though.

Yes, let's not think about the ones he caught against those guys. Let's just worry about the one from Hundley that he dropped while double-covered (read: double. How many guys drew double coverage last year?).

I guess the play you're talking about is the one during minicamp when Janis was able to get behind the defense (something no Packers fan doubts he's capable of) but dropped a perfectly thrown ball without a defender close to him (something every Packers fan should be worried about with him).

And in case you missed it, McCarthy praised Janis too. "Jeff Janis is doing a lot of good things. He just needs to continue to progress..." Note, he said "continue" not "start" which by definition means he is progressing.

There's a huge difference in McCarthy praising Abbrederis the way he did and him talking about Janis needing to continue to progress. BTW it's his third season with the Packers so him already having started to develop is nothing to get excited about.

Then you must also agree that Abbrederis is fighting Davis and possibly Allison for the sixth roster spot.

Nelson, Cobb, Adams and Montgomery are locks to make the team as wide receivers. Janis will be part of the 53 because of his performance on special teams. With the uncertainty about his ability to play on offense it's possible the Packers will keep both Abbrederis and Davis as well. I don't expect Allison to challenge any of them for a roster spot.

And when Janis finally got a legitimate shot in the final game last year, HE PRODUCED. That tells me that every Packers writer and the fans who were calling for him to play from mid-season on were RIGHT. It's time to quit harping on about "trust" and start talking about having some faith.

Janis got some playing time during the regular season, lining up on offense on 132 snaps while being targeted 12 times. He only caught two of them. While that is a small sample size that is a terrible production.

There's no denying that he significantly improved during the Cardinals playoff game but fans should stop putting way too much stock into two Hail Mary plays, something an offense shouldn't be centered around.

Jeff Janis wasn't even a starting caliber WR (he was used primarily as a ST gunner all year 2015) and went into an NFL divisional playoff game against arguably one of the best DBs playing today and smoked him IMO. If we concede to the argument that he has a poor grip on the playbook? What we he do if he mastered the playbook? Scary.

There's absolutely no doubt that if Janis fully grasps the Packers playbook at some point he would be scary good. But with him still having huge troubles completely understanding it in his third season I doubt he will ever be able to.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And where was Abbrederis when he was needed on those two plays? BTW, it's not luck when you go up against a Pro Bowl CB and WIN. The only luck on a Hail Mary is whether or not there is a legitimate opportunity to make the play. Beyond that, it's execution. I seriously doubt if Abbrederis had done what Janis did you'd be on here dismissing it as "luck." You act as if that was some kind of easy catch. The only other receiver on the roster who would have made that catch is Nelson. The rest wouldn't have been capable of making that leap.

I'm still waiting for the Packers fans using Janis Hail Mary catch against the Cardinals as proof of him being ready to take the next step get as excited about Richard Rodgers outlook because of his game winning reception at Detroit.

Yet it seems you're capable of taking a realistic approach in that case.

Many are quietly (and some not so quietly) hoping for him to fail so the local favorite can be assured of a roster spot.

There isn't a single Packers fan wanting Janis to fail. I would love for him to turn into a decent receiver at the pro level but it takes more than two lucky catches for me to believe he will have a similar career as Driver.

 

[Croak]

And up untill the last two plays which even Jordy refers to as luck Abby produced just as much.

In any case one game is NOT PROOF of anything.

Once again Samkon Gado people.

Hey now. Hey now. Ease up on my fellow Alumnus, Samkon. He is Dr. Gado now. A head and neck surgeon in an ENT department. He had several good games in a row before he got injured and went on IR. He might not have been outstanding, but he was solid.

He made no secret that football was not his top priority. He wanted to go into the medical field and eventually help his people in Nigeria. A long career in football was not what he was after. So it's tough to compare him to guys who want to make football their life.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Hey now. Hey now. Ease up on my fellow Alumnus, Samkon. He is Dr. Gado now. A head and neck surgeon in an ENT department. He had several good games in a row before he got injured and went on IR. He might not have been outstanding, but he was solid.

He made no secret that football was not his top priority. He wanted to go into the medical field and eventually help his people in Nigeria. A long career in football was not what he was after. So it's tough to compare him to guys who want to make football their life.

We might be off on a tangent, but it's a good tangent. Nice piece here on Samkon Gado for those interested:

http://abcnews4.com/archive/former-nfl-pro-sets-a-new-goal-with-medical-degree-from-musc

 

[bigbubbatd]

There are many who simply don't want to give him any time to develop his game. Why? People were patient with Driver. I think the majority of the negativity toward Janis stems from the fact that he has been Abbrederis's direct competition to make the roster the last two years. Many are quietly (and some not so quietly) hoping for him to fail so the local favorite can be assured of a roster spot. It's probably time for them to redirect that contempt at Davis and Allison, since those will be his direct competition for a spot this year.

Nope the issue people have with Janis is simple lack of production. Abbrederis has missed a season and a half with an injury but has out-produced Janis over that time. Barring one crazy drive of Hail Mary's it isnt really that close. Janis has way better measureables for sure. I want him to succeed but outside on drive he hasnt instilled much confidence. It is obvious in how the coaches talk about both that Abbrederis is way ahead on the mental side of the game. That is where Janis needs to catch up and with the way GB runs their offense that is a big deal. GB hasnt succeeded in the passing game with freak athletes. They have succeeded with good athletes who know where to be and are on the same page with their qb

 

[RRyder]

And where was Abbrederis when he was needed on those two plays? BTW, it's not luck when you go up against a Pro Bowl CB and WIN. The only luck on a Hail Mary is whether or not there is a legitimate opportunity to make the play. Beyond that, it's execution. I seriously doubt if Abbrederis had done what Janis did you'd be on here dismissing it as "luck." You act as if that was some kind of easy catch. The only other receiver on the roster who would have made that catch is Nelson. The rest wouldn't have been capable of making that leap.



It was proof that he should have been used earlier to open up the field. It was proof that he's not intimidated by the pro game. And it's proof that he can be a productive NFL WR.



He's not Sam Gado.

When his two big plays are based largely on the defense messing up much more than anything Janis did yes it's luck.

Really I disagree with everything you said here. Nothing said is proof of anything. I'll also add that your right. Samkon Gado had a more impressive game overall as it was over the course of the entire game and not on two plays were it was largely based on the defense playing bad defensively. Also the fact that he did it in more than a SINGLE game puts him ahead of Janis.

It can make you hopefull. But you arguing it as PROOF is you simply digging in your heels. A stance others have taken but a stance that has zero proof to support it.

Take it on faith if you will but then at the same time allow me to simply refer to those of like mind as the Cult of Janis

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Abbrederis played a total of 200 snaps last season and caught 15 balls for 180 yards. On the other hand Janis had nine receptions for 224 yards on 176 snaps.

Only being allowed to play in one drive every few games isn't much of an opportunity to get any kind of rhythm. When both of them started, Janis outplay him. The only category where Abbrederis out did Janis in that game was in drops.

Even by having two miraculous catches on Hail Marys Janis wasn't more productive than Abbrederis.

In the Divisional Round he was.

I haven't seen a single poster suggesting Abbrederis will start opposite of Nelson. There's a distinct possibility he will make the final roster and stay ahead of Janis on the depth chart though.

Then who are you going to cut to make room for him?

I follow several of the Packers beat reporters on Twitter and there were several reports of Janis running the wrong route. I won't go back several weeks in my timeline to find those tweets again though.

Convenient. Say what you want to say and then don't back it up because it was only on Twitter, as if writers don't have time to put those kind of important things such as "tons of wrong routes" in an actual article.

I guess the play you're talking about is the one during minicamp when Janis was able to get behind the defense (something no Packers fan doubts he's capable of) but dropped a perfectly thrown ball without a defender close to him (something every Packers fan should be worried about with him).

Then are you worried about Abbrederis having dropped a perfect pass in the Cardinals game, or does he get a free pass because, well... he's Abby!? BTW, let's just focus on the one drop and ignore the nice catches Janis has made. Yeah.

There's a huge difference in McCarthy praising Abbrederis the way he did and him talking about Janis needing to continue to progress. BTW it's his third season with the Packers so him already having started to develop is nothing to get excited about.

No, but it does fly directly in the face of the hopes and supposition by the Abby fan club that Janis isn't progressing. And the praise he threw at Abbrederis is pretty much the same stuff we heard last year. Are you implying that Abbrederis has no progress left to make? If so, then he has pretty much hit his ceiling.

Nelson, Cobb, Adams and Montgomery are locks to make the team as wide receivers. Janis will be part of the 53 because of his performance on special teams. With the uncertainty about his ability to play on offense it's possible the Packers will keep both Abbrederis and Davis as well.

So you think the Packers will keep 7 WRs? In what reality? MM and TT have both emphasized the importance of the TE position because of the versatility they bring to an offense and because they're key to special teams. Typically the Packers keep 9 WR/TE. So do Perillo, Mitchell and Backman all get cut for a guy who isn't going to contribute on coverage teams? I just don't see it. If they go heavy and keep 10 WR/TE, what other position takes a hit to its depth to make room for him? Face reality, man. It's going to be a choice between him and Davis.

There's no denying that he significantly improved during the Cardinals playoff game but fans should stop putting way too much stock into two Hail Mary plays, something an offense shouldn't be centered around.

It was more than two hail mary plays. Even without those he out-played Abbrederis.

There's absolutely no doubt that if Janis fully grasps the Packers playbook at some point he would be scary good. But with him still having huge troubles completely understanding it in his third season I doubt he will ever be able to.

Huge troubles? McCarthy says he has been improving, which is all anyone can ask. BTW, if such a masterful understanding of the playbook is so penultimate, then why such mediocrity from Abbrederis?

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

When his two big plays are based largely on the defense messing up much more than anything Janis did yes it's luck.

You wouldn't be saying that if it was Abbrederis. You know it too.

Take it on faith if you will but then at the same time allow me to simply refer to those of like mind as the Cult of Janis

Spoken like a true Abbrederis fanboy. I'll say it again. If Abbrederis had gone to Indiana or North Carolina or someplace else, he wouldn't be nearly so hyped around here.

 

[RRyder]

You wouldn't be saying that if it was Abbrederis. You know it too.



Spoken like a true Abbrederis fanboy. I'll say it again. If Abbrederis had gone to Indiana or North Carolina or someplace else, he wouldn't be nearly so hyped around here.

Lol. I'm not even an Abby fan. I suggested he'd be the most likely player to be cut even last year. Still doesnt have anything to do woth the fact he was rated a higher WR by the coaching staff last year and that 2 plays that succeeded mostly due to the fact that the defense fell apart hasnt changed that in all likelyhood.

But thank you for now acknowledging that you're officially out of arguments by reaching on this one. The Cult of Janis strikes again

Also saying he was a better WR than Janis last year at WR is about the father you can get from hyping up a player as it gets.

 

[Poppa San]

Then who are you going to cut to make room for him?

This is probably the crux of the matter. Pre-camp there are (I think without looking) 14 receivers vying for about 6 slots. 7 are on the inside track to get there. 3 are basically locks; Jordy, Monty, Cobb. Of the other 11, which have any late camp - cut to 53 time trade value? Of the rarely mentioned 7, I'd say none. Davis can be added to that group. Any of the aforementioned 8 will probably get to the practice squad. Abby, Janis [and as a best case scenario for Davis] maybe a last round conditional at best. Neither will clear waivers. Adams is most likely more valuable to TT than any other team. He's worth at best a third day pick but TT wouldn't let him go for that. Unless he totally tanks on or off the field add him to the locks.

 

[bigbubbatd]

So now to be now if someone is a pumping the breaks on Janis it is because they are a big Abbrederis fan? Seriously this is getting out of hand. If the Packers cut Abbrederis I wouldnt lose any sleep. He seems like a great guy but if he isnt who the staff want cutting him makes sense. I trust our staff more than myself. Just like I trust their decision to not play Janis until the entire wr group was out with injury. I honestly dont think either guy is a special wr. Most of the guys hear who are cautioning the elevation of Janis seem to also think Abbrederis is at best a 4th or 5th wr. That is far different than the pro Janis crowd who is pushing for him to get a chance to start because one great drive

 

[PackerDNA]

Comes down to Abby or Davis.

 

[Sky King]

Comes down to Abby or Davis.

The wildcard is injury, as usual. The darkhorse could be Adams. Even James Jones was expendable. Way too early to call this one IMHO. Much has yet to happen and will.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Abbrederis played a total of 200 snaps last season and caught 15 balls for 180 yards. On the other hand Janis had nine receptions for 224 yards on 176 snaps.


Even by having two miraculous catches on Hail Marys Janis wasn't more productive than Abbrederis.



There are other ways than being extremely athletic for a wide receiver to get open. According to the Packers head coach Abbrederis' route running is exemplary for a young guy and his ability to recognize coverages, his time clock, his breaking points, his ability to drop his weight is exceptional. Once again a WR doesn't have to be smart as a rocket scientist but Rodgers has made it clear that a player not knowing the playbook won't get on the field with him.



I haven't seen a single poster suggesting Abbrederis will start opposite of Nelson. There's a distinct possibility he will make the final roster and stay ahead of Janis on the depth chart though.



I follow several of the Packers beat reporters on Twitter and there were several reports of Janis running the wrong route. I won't go back several weeks in my timeline to find those tweets again though.



I guess the play you're talking about is the one during minicamp when Janis was able to get behind the defense (something no Packers fan doubts he's capable of) but dropped a perfectly thrown ball without a defender close to him (something every Packers fan should be worried about with him).



There's a huge difference in McCarthy praising Abbrederis the way he did and him talking about Janis needing to continue to progress. BTW it's his third season with the Packers so him already having started to develop is nothing to get excited about.



Nelson, Cobb, Adams and Montgomery are locks to make the team as wide receivers. Janis will be part of the 53 because of his performance on special teams. With the uncertainty about his ability to play on offense it's possible the Packers will keep both Abbrederis and Davis as well. I don't expect Allison to challenge any of them for a roster spot.



Janis got some playing time during the regular season, lining up on offense on 132 snaps while being targeted 12 times. He only caught two of them. While that is a small sample size that is a terrible production.

There's no denying that he significantly improved during the Cardinals playoff game but fans should stop putting way too much stock into two Hail Mary plays, something an offense shouldn't be centered around.



There's absolutely no doubt that if Janis fully grasps the Packers playbook at some point he would be scary good. But with him still having huge troubles completely understanding it in his third season I doubt he will ever be able to.

Thats about the biggest load of negative crap i ever heard...

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Janis has been productive on special teams, and that is likely to keep him on the roster for at least another year. If he does not become a solid route-runner, however, his role on the offense will be limited. He has plenty of ability, so it comes down to fundamentals. It's all really on him.

Abbrederis's biggest obstacle is his injury history. If the Pack decide to keep six at WR, he may be the odd man out, unless someone else gets hurt. He's played well when he's been healthy and given the opportunity, but that just hasn't been all that often.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Only being allowed to play in one drive every few games isn't much of an opportunity to get any kind of rhythm. When both of them started, Janis outplay him. The only category where Abbrederis out did Janis in that game was in drops.

Abbrederis played even fewer snaps in the regular season than Janis yet was the most productive receiver on the team in terms of reception per snaps. Janis was by far the worst in that category.

Then are you worried about Abbrederis having dropped a perfect pass in the Cardinals game, or does he get a free pass because, well... he's Abby!?

Abbrederis' drops last season were disappointing, no doubt about that.

No, but it does fly directly in the face of the hopes and supposition by the Abby fan club that Janis isn't progressing. And the praise he threw at Abbrederis is pretty much the same stuff we heard last year. Are you implying that Abbrederis has no progress left to make? If so, then he has pretty much hit his ceiling.

You just don't get it. I would be super excited if Janis fully grasps the Packers playbook and is able to repeat his performance at Arizona on a regular basis. Taking a realistic look at his development he isn't anywhere close to that point though.

So you think the Packers will keep 7 WRs? In what reality? MM and TT have both emphasized the importance of the TE position because of the versatility they bring to an offense and because they're key to special teams. Typically the Packers keep 9 WR/TE. So do Perillo, Mitchell and Backman all get cut for a guy who isn't going to contribute on coverage teams? I just don't see it. If they go heavy and keep 10 WR/TE, what other position takes a hit to its depth to make room for him? Face reality, man. It's going to be a choice between him and Davis.

The Packers will most likely keep only two quarterbacks and one fullback this season, possibly making room for an additional two wide receivers. The team released Perillo and Henry last season, so it's possible they will do it again.

There's no doubt that if the Packers only keep six receivers on the 53 the team will most likely release Abbrederis or Davis.

It was more than two hail mary plays. Even without those he out-played Abbrederis.

Without the two Hail Mary catches Janis had five receptions for 44 yards while Abbrederis had four catches for 55. Pretty similar numbers.

Huge troubles? McCarthy says he has been improving, which is all anyone can ask. BTW, if such a masterful understanding of the playbook is so penultimate, then why such mediocrity from Abbrederis?

By a player's third season it should be expected that he fully understands the playbook. Otherwise there's reason to be concerned about him ever being able to. Abbrederis actually had a nice per snap production, it's not surprising he didn't play more often though as Cobb, Jones, Adams and Montgomery are more talented players.

This is probably the crux of the matter. Pre-camp there are (I think without looking) 14 receivers vying for about 6 slots. 7 are on the inside track to get there. 3 are basically locks; Jordy, Monty, Cobb. Of the other 11, which have any late camp - cut to 53 time trade value? Of the rarely mentioned 7, I'd say none. Davis can be added to that group. Any of the aforementioned 8 will probably get to the practice squad. Abby, Janis [and as a best case scenario for Davis] maybe a last round conditional at best. Neither will clear waivers. Adams is most likely more valuable to TT than any other team. He's worth at best a third day pick but TT wouldn't let him go for that. Unless he totally tanks on or off the field add him to the locks.

The Packers currently have 11 wide receivers on the roster. Aside of the seven drafted out of this group I don't expect any undrafted free agent to make a push for a roster spot. As I've mentioned earlier in this post it's possible there's room for seven WRs on the roster.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

You just don't get it. I would be super excited if Janis fully grasps the Packers playbook and is able to repeat his performance at Arizona on a regular basis. Taking a realistic look at his development he isn't anywhere close to that point though.

How close he is or isn't to that point remains to be seen at this point. He could be further from it than many of us think. He could also be closer than you think. But we do know he has the ability. Now it's just a matter of putting the finer points together. Keep in mind, Saginaw Valley didn't do him any favor, but that just the kind of school that guys from 2A high schools end up at. They had a very simplistic offense and he's had a lot to learn just to catch up to where most rookies start out, but all indications are he's getting there.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

How close he is or isn't to that point remains to be seen at this point. He could be further from it than many of us think. He could also be closer than you think. But we do know he has the ability. Now it's just a matter of putting the finer points together. Keep in mind, Saginaw Valley didn't do him any favor, but that just the kind of school that guys from 2A high schools end up at. They had a very simplistic offense and he's had a lot to learn just to catch up to where most rookies start out, but all indications are he's getting there.

There's no doubt Janis had way more to learn about an NFL playbook coming out of Saginaw Valley State compared to other rookies coming from FBS schools. But once again reading about him still running wrong routes during practice has me concerned if he will be able to fully understand it at any point.

 

[Half Empty]

Thats about the biggest load of negative crap i ever heard...

Knee-jerk reaction was "then you don't read many of the posts here, do you? "

Upon re-reading, however, a more serious question is what's so negative, and what's so crappy? Do you disagree with the numbers presented? Do you disagree with the conclusion reached? Is there something more to it than I see, i.e., two stat lines and a conclusion that one player isn't greatly superior to another? Or were you just having a bad day?

 

[Croak]

Knee-jerk reaction was "then you don't read many of the posts here, do you? "

Upon re-reading, however, a more serious question is what's so negative, and what's so crappy? Do you disagree with the numbers presented? Do you disagree with the conclusion reached? Is there something more to it than I see, i.e., two stat lines and a conclusion that one player isn't greatly superior to another? Or were you just having a bad day?

Thank you Half Empty. I was debating how to frame a response drawing out more of a discussion on the points of the post, rather than just attacking the post.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Thank you Half Empty. I was debating how to frame a response drawing out more of a discussion on the points of the post, rather than just attacking the post.

Oh just tired of hearing this negative twist. the stubborn concentration on everything negative, about a guy who has shown great potential....2 years of ignoring what some here see as OBVIOUS!!!!

I guess the 6 or 7 replies to EVERYTHING positive said about Janis the previous couple days...... I figured I would show how I felt about it...

 

[RRyder]

Oh just tired of hearing this negative twist. the stubborn concentration on everything negative, about a guy who has shown great potential....2 years of ignoring what some here see as OBVIOUS!!!!

I guess the 6 or 7 replies to EVERYTHING positive said about Janis the previous couple days...... I figured I would show how I felt about it...

The only one ignoring the last two years with Janis are the Cult of Janis supporters. The rest of us have chosen to ignore his last two catches because they were on desperation and busted plays while examining his ENTIRE body of work.

You have chosen to do the opposite

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

The only one ignoring the last two years with Janis are the Cult of Janis supporters. The rest of us have chosen to ignore his last two catches because they were on desperation and busted plays while examining his ENTIRE body of work.

You have chosen to do the opposite

Ummmmm. How many 2nd year, 7th round picks have a "cult following"

???

You need to try very hard to not see what he brings to the table.

 

[RRyder]

Ummmmm. How many 2nd year, 7th round picks have a "cult following"

???

You need to try very hard to not see what he brings to the table.

That's not an argument in the least. At least not one that's any good