Aaron Jones

[OldSchool101]

Happy with JW as #2 back. We have not been using our RBs properly all season and stats of both players show that. He may not be as explosive as AJ, but is a good player to have on his own.

I have no problem having JW as one of our 3. But he’s a solid #3 and a poor #2. I’d like to see him used more in passing situations, that’s where he excels in blocking and passing. He’s a solid all around #3 and that’s not an insult in this league.
We need a 4-5 yard per carry (preferably closer to 5) RB added to this squad. We’re missing a true #2 RB with a #1 ceiling.
Incidentally We’re also missing a true #2 WR with a #1 ceiling. We could have both resolved by close of business day 2 draft.

 

[Dblbogey]

Happy with JW as #2 back. We have not been using our RBs properly all season and stats of both players show that. He may not be as explosive as AJ, but is a good player to have on his own.

#2 back upgrade is certainly a low priority, given the bigger needs at most other positions.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But he is not a #1, and when Jones misses time with injuries, you need a better plan B than Williams.

I'm not sure what you are proposing. With all the holes that need to be filled and question marks to be addressed, spending a day 2 pick on a RB is a luxury that is unaffordable. I'm thinking day 3, 5th. or 6th. round, for a guy who can actually play if needed, preferably with return skills so he's on the game day roster. I'd prefer not to see Williams taking 86 snaps as he did in week 16 even if he did have 21 touches for 156 yds.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I have no problem having JW as one of our 3. But he’s a solid #3 and a poor #2. I’d like to see him used more in passing situations, that’s where he excels in blocking and passing. He’s a solid all around #3 and that’s not an insult in this league.
We need a 4-5 yard per carry (preferably closer to 5) RB added to this squad. We’re missing a true #2 RB with a #1 ceiling.
Incidentally We’re also missing a true #2 WR with a #1 ceiling. We could have both resolved by close of business day 2 draft.

I'm not sure how to put this so I'll come right out with it. Saying Williams is inadequate as a #2 RB is simply wrong.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not sure how to put this so I'll come right out with it. Saying Williams is inadequate as a #2 RB is simply wrong.

Show me a #2 with a worse yards per carry? And I’m not talking about a guy who carried the ball less than 5 times a game either.
We’re better than that HRE. We can’t continue to settle for mediocrity.. or in this case not even that.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Jones can't stay healthy. We need another effective runner.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But he is not a #1, and when Jones misses time with injuries, you need a better plan B than Williams.

It's unrealistic to expect having a #1 running back as a backup for Jones.

Show me a #2 with a worse yards per carry? And I’m not talking about a guy who carried the ball less than 5 times a game either.

There were actually #1 running backs who averaged less yards per carry than Williams in 2018. Jordan Howard, David Johnson, Leonard Fournette, LeSean McCoy and LeGarrette Blount to name a few.

 

[OldSchool101]

It's unrealistic to expect having a #1 running back as a backup for Jones.



There were actually #1 running backs who averaged less yards per carry than Williams in 2018. Jordan Howard, David Johnson, Leonard Fournette, LeSean McCoy and LeGarrette Blount to name a few.

Jamaal has 121 attempts and his biggest run was 20 yards.
1. How many RBs in 2018 had approx. 100+ attempts (21 fewer) and never broke one past 20 yards. In the league?

2. How many RBs with 100+ attempts had at least 1 over 20 yards?

3. How many RBs in your above exception with a worse per carry list (3.8 average) had at or less than a long of 20 yards?

 

[GleefulGary]

YPC has more to do with the situation than the player in most cases.

Show me how a guy does on 1st and 10 compared to the average. Or 3rd and 3.

Then go and see how they do against a 6 man box, or 7, or 8 man box. That will tell you more about how good a RB is.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

i didn't say anything about expecting anything. i said they won't have improved at the 2 unless they find someone better jordy. that's speed, hands, smarts, getting open/route running. not stats. the last time they had two great receivers it was adams/jordy. adams is equal to, or better, than jordy when you combine those areas. improving on adams/jordy is possible. although unlikely they could do it by trading for AB to name one.

The Packers receiving corps would be better next season if they find an upgrade over Cobb as their #2 target. That player doesn't have to be better than Nelson to achieve that though.

Jamaal has 121 attempts and his biggest run was 20 yards.
1. How many RBs in 2018 had approx. 100+ attempts (21 fewer) and never broke one past 20 yards. In the league?

2. How many RBs with 100+ attempts had at least 1 over 20 yards?

3. How many RBs in your above exception with a worse per carry list (3.8 average) had at or less than a long of 20 yards?

It seems you didn't like the data (although you were the one asking the question) I posted before therefore you change your narrative. I'm not interested in researching those numbers though as you have to understand that Williams isn't the type of running back to expect a lot of breakaway runs but is able to tough yards.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

why don't we just convince Lacy to work out with Saquan Barkley and sign him on the cheap?

 

[Mondio]

If there was a similar Saquan Barkley, I'd definitely pick him at 12. What are the odds? Probably as good as finding Aaron Rodgers at #30

 

[Deleted member 6794]

why don't we just convince Lacy to work out with Saquan Barkley and sign him on the cheap?

I guess the only way Lacy could help would be by eating up opposing defenders.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Jones is electrifying but not built to withstand 300 touches in a season. Williams is a good blocker and can grind out a tough yard as well as anybody. What the Packers need is a #2 who has a skill set closer to Jones. That guy can perhaps be picked up as a free agent or a 4th or 5th round pick. As I've posted before, there way too many big holes to fill at rg, edge rusher and slot receiver, for the Packers to spend their higher draft picks on a #2 rb. I'd like to see Gute pick up a guy like James White. Great pass catcher who can give the #1 adequate breaks.

 

[sschind]

The Packers receiving corps would be better next season if they find an upgrade over Cobb as their #2 target. That player doesn't have to be better than Nelson to achieve that though.



It seems you didn't like the data (although you were the one asking the question) I posted before therefore you change your narrative. I'm not interested in researching those numbers though as you have to understand that Williams isn't the type of running back to expect a lot of breakaway runs but is able to tough yards.

Besides, when you do find some of those numbers he will just change the narrative again. He will just keep looking, or have you keep looking, until he hits on something that "proves" Williams is not a good #2 back.

It doesn't matter what the stats are, when some people get something in their head nothing will change it.

There are two things to look at in a #2 back. First is a back that has to come in and be the #1 when the real #1 goes down for a few games. Second is a back who comes in and gets a bunch of carries during a game to give the #1 a breather. It seems to me that he really wants 2 #1 RBs in case the real #1 can't play for a few games and as you have pointed out that is not realistic.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

It is hard to gauge the running game with the scheme we had, and will have going forward. Shanahan had smaller backs in Atlanta (similar in size to Jones), McVay has a much bigger back in Gurley in LA.
Jones is talented enough to be the #1, but is he durable? Probably not.
Williams has shown he can do well against poor defenses, and can be bottled up against the good ones. I don't think he's a talent we want to scheme around.
Neither guy have we invested big draft capital or money on. Neither guy seems like an ideal #1. The team can easily move on should they wish.
I'll say it again, but I won't be surprised if we draft an RB early. If Jacobs makes it to our #2 pick - which I doubt - I wouldn't be surprised if we take him. The UFA's include Coleman and Yeldon. Again, I don't think you scheme an offense around either of those guys.

 

[sschind]

It is hard to gauge the running game with the scheme we had, and will have going forward. Shanahan had smaller backs in Atlanta (similar in size to Jones), McVay has a much bigger back in Gurley in LA.
Jones is talented enough to be the #1, but is he durable? Probably not.
Williams has shown he can do well against poor defenses, and can be bottled up against the good ones. I don't think he's a talent we want to scheme around.
Neither guy have we invested big draft capital or money on. Neither guy seems like an ideal #1. The team can easily move on should they wish.
I'll say it again, but I won't be surprised if we draft an RB early. If Jacobs makes it to our #2 pick - which I doubt - I wouldn't be surprised if we take him. The UFA's include Coleman and Yeldon. Again, I don't think you scheme an offense around either of those guys.

I know the prevailing wisdom says you take a RB late, don't pay them any money, let them go after their rookie contract is up and just grab another and you will be just fine but these are the kinds of guys (Jones and Williams) you get when you don't spend big draft capital or money. Sure there are exceptions but you can't treat a position as an afterthought and expect it to become a strength. At best you hope it gets you by and does not become your downfall. You certainly can hope you nail it like the Broncos apparently did with Phillips (and apparently blew it with Freeman) but lets see how it plays out over the next couple of years. It is certainly not a position I would like to have to address every 3 or 4 years hoping you get a guy that can contribute consistently.

If there were a Saquon Barkley type available in the draft I absolutely wouldn't mind taking him at 12 or especially 30. I don't know anything about Jacobs but if he were there at 30 I wouldn't mind taking him if he's the type of guy the coaches think could play a consistent healthy and very productive role in the offense. Depending on what the coaches think of therm and how they will fit the system I am also OK with rolling with Jones and Williams as our primary backs as well if we don't grab a RB early or invest in a upper level FA. All I know is I hope we get the RBs, whoever they may be, more involved. That doesn't have to necessarily mean more carries as involvement in the passing game can be just as effective.

 

[GleefulGary]

If there was a similar Saquan Barkley, I'd definitely pick him at 12. What are the odds? Probably as good as finding Aaron Rodgers at #30

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Look at the Rams. They played stinkin CJ Andersen more than Gurley at the end. AP never lead his team to actually being a really good team.

RB is so low on the priority list, and you can find good ones in rounds 2-5. Heck, you can find good undrafted ones!

At the end of the first round, if you have a loaded team, fine...but otherwise, no thanks.

 

[sschind]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Look at the Rams. They played stinkin CJ Andersen more than Gurley at the end. AP never lead his team to actually being a really good team.

RB is so low on the priority list, and you can find good ones in rounds 2-5. Heck, you can find good undrafted ones!

At the end of the first round, if you have a loaded team, fine...but otherwise, no thanks.

Look at the Rams. They played stinkin CJ Andersen more than Gurley at the end
Because maybe Gurley was hurt? Do you honestly think the Rams would have been in the SB had CJ Anderson been their starting RB all season. Gurley and Donald were the keys to that team and you saw what happened when they took one of them (Gurley) away. Take away Gurley's threat and Goff and the passing game become far more defendable. A CJ Anderson might get you through a game or two but not a whole season.

AP never lead his team to actually being a really good team.
Because the rest of the vikings team sucked?

RB is so low on the priority list, and you can find good ones in rounds 2-5. Heck, you can find good undrafted ones!
You had better hope so because if that is what you are doing you will be doing it often.

The Giants didn't do much this year but they would probably be drafting 1st over all had they not taken Barkley last year. They make a few more improvements and they have a stud RB for several years they will improve faster than if they simply hoped to get lucky with a good late round pick or UDFA.

A good strong running game makes the passing game better. If you are content with a so so running game with a chance that you might hit it big then fine, stick with your strategy of making the position an afterthought. If you want to have a strong running game you need to invest in it. The exception is also investing in a strong OL to block for the RBs and I am never opposed to strengthening the offensive line. However, we all know that pass blocking and run blocking are different animals. If you want a strong running game you need strong run blockers.

 

[Mondio]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

Look at the Rams. They played stinkin CJ Andersen more than Gurley at the end. AP never lead his team to actually being a really good team.

RB is so low on the priority list, and you can find good ones in rounds 2-5. Heck, you can find good undrafted ones!

At the end of the first round, if you have a loaded team, fine...but otherwise, no thanks.

Overall I’d agree, but Barkley made the Giants a legitimate football team.

He’s a legitimate runner and pass catcher. A binafide game changer. I’d take him. But like I said, the odds that player is there at 12 is about as high as Rodgers type being at 30

 

[OldSchool101]

It seems you didn't like the data (although you were the one asking the question) I posted before therefore you change your narrative. I'm not interested in researching those numbers though as you have to understand that Williams isn't the type of running back to expect a lot of breakaway runs but is able to tough yards.

Actually to the contrary, I appreciated the data from a different perspective.

The response is exactly in line with the point I’m trying to make. In an effort to try and prove me wrong you picked out a few of the leagues most underperforming #1 RBs who are averaging 3+ yards per carry.
While I appreciate and respect you defending a small group of starters who are underperforming, what you’re not understanding is I personally still expect better for a SB contender (that’s the goal isn’t it?)

I’m interested in finding more competition in the backfield in the event a very capable RB in Aaron Jones continues to be injury prone. btw I don’t have An axe to grind with Williams, he’s been a serviceable #3 type playing big like a #2. (And I mean that in a respectful way this IS the NFL here and it takes a superb athlete just to make the 53)

But I’m not interested in being #2. Aaron Rodgers deserves to have better than a 3rd day afterthought pick thrown in the mix every 7 years or so. I hope and pray that our new GM takes the approach giving our star actor (#12) some “best supporting actor” potential going forward.
RB, WR, TE, IDC. I’ll be content with just a spoonful at this point. Where is my Christian Mcaffrey

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Here's the highlight reel for Jacobs:

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He's as good a pass catcher as there will be at the RB position in this draft. I'd take him at 30 if he impresses at the combine. If we go that route, I'd prefer OLB at 12 and then going hard at the Oline days 2 and 3.

One thing that could put a dent in that strategy would be if a legit blue chip o-lineman falls to them at 12. I'm not sure how many there are of that type of player in the draft though.

 

[sschind]

But I’m not interested in being #2. Aaron Rodgers deserves to have better than a 3rd day afterthought pick thrown in the mix every 7 years or so. I hope and pray that our new GM takes the approach giving our star actor (#12) some “best supporting actor” potential going forward. RB, WR, TE, IDC. I’ll be content with just a spoonful at this point. Where is my Christian Mcaffrey

I agree with you on this only its not every 7 years because they are constantly trying to find that late round gem. As long as the attitude is "we can grab any guy late and plug him in and we will be OK" that is what you are going to be, just OK. You might get lucky and hit on a Terrell Davis or a Phillip Lindsay but odds are you are going to get something far less than that. IMO the last time they had a really effective running game was when they spent a 2nd rounder on a pick. Coincidentally, that seemed to be the last time the coach actually tried something like trying to establish a running game. I do like Jones and I am very keen to see how he responds to LaFleur's offense but if you don't value the position you are not going to value the player. If you spend a 5th rounder on him you are going to use him like a 5th rounder.

If your goal is to have a running game that is "just fine" then that's all well and good but I'd actually like to see a running game that can help a team win rather than just being something to do when Aaron's arm gets tired. Like I said before though, that can be as much a matter of the coaches utilizing the talent as it is having top level talent. I think Jones and Williams are a good duo to have on the team I'm just not sure they can be expected to carry the load if an expanded running game is the goal.

 

[GleefulGary]

Look at the Rams. They played stinkin CJ Andersen more than Gurley at the end
Because maybe Gurley was hurt? Do you honestly think the Rams would have been in the SB had CJ Anderson been their starting RB all season. Gurley and Donald were the keys to that team and you saw what happened when they took one of them (Gurley) away. Take away Gurley's threat and Goff and the passing game become far more defendable. A CJ Anderson might get you through a game or two but not a whole season.

AP never lead his team to actually being a really good team.
Because the rest of the vikings team sucked?

RB is so low on the priority list, and you can find good ones in rounds 2-5. Heck, you can find good undrafted ones!
You had better hope so because if that is what you are doing you will be doing it often.

The Giants didn't do much this year but they would probably be drafting 1st over all had they not taken Barkley last year. They make a few more improvements and they have a stud RB for several years they will improve faster than if they simply hoped to get lucky with a good late round pick or UDFA.

A good strong running game makes the passing game better. If you are content with a so so running game with a chance that you might hit it big then fine, stick with your strategy of making the position an afterthought. If you want to have a strong running game you need to invest in it. The exception is also investing in a strong OL to block for the RBs and I am never opposed to strengthening the offensive line. However, we all know that pass blocking and run blocking are different animals. If you want a strong running game you need strong run blockers.

The coach said Gurley was healthy. Gurley said he was healthy. He was the fastest timed player in the SB.

Maybe, just maybe...he was actually healthy! Crazy idea, I know.

 

[sschind]

The coach said Gurley was healthy. Gurley said he was healthy. He was the fastest timed player in the SB.

Maybe, just maybe...he was actually healthy! Crazy idea, I know.

It doesn't matter what reason they played Anderson in the end I highly doubt they would have made it to the SB with Anderson instead of Gurley playing all season long.

Keep counting on late picks to be your running game and be satisfied when its OK. Just don't be complaining if it would take a major improvement to be OK.