Training Camp Position Battles

[easyk83]

N



Nothing yet but hype and hope. Been too much of that- it's the main reason why a team with the GOAT at the most important position hasn't even been to a SB in going on 8 years. Biegel is a LB like Ryan.. Unless the guys a total A hole, his team mates will talk him up, so, not good enough for me. Been a lot of people at 1265 running their mouths about Gilbert. For him, like the rest, do it. Fackrell was a guy I wanted and was thrilled when they got him. He's been a major dissapointment.

Biegel was a much better OLB in college than Ryan was who was switched inside, he has the desired traits and lest we forget that he fell until the fourth round because of his senior year injury. When he reinjured his foot he basically started his rookie campaign in a wheel chair.

I'd be leery of comparing anyone to Fackrell, the guy has rare talent but it seems like he's too nice a guy who just doesnt play with the requisite violence.

 

[swhitset]

I actually think one of the best head to head battles will be between Kizer and Hundley. I think most assume that after seeing Hundley play last year and the fact that we traded a former #1 pick for Kizer, it is a done deal that Kizer will backup Rodgers. I wouldn't be so quick to eliminate Hundley. Yes, he didn't look very good last season, but that playing experience added to being in the Packer system for 3 years, will benefit him quite a bit. I expect both of them to see a lot of preseason action and a real battle.

I agree with this, however don't forget that Hundley is only under contract for this year. I think having Kizer locked up under that rookie deal for a couple more years will factor into it as well. What team wants to pay their backup 2nd contract money especially when he has performed as badly as Hundley did.

 

[easyk83]

I actually think one of the best head to head battles will be between Kizer and Hundley. I think most assume that after seeing Hundley play last year and the fact that we traded a former #1 pick for Kizer, it is a done deal that Kizer will backup Rodgers. I wouldn't be so quick to eliminate Hundley. Yes, he didn't look very good last season, but that playing experience added to being in the Packer system for 3 years, will benefit him quite a bit. I expect both of them to see a lot of preseason action and a real battle.

Brett could turn into an effective qb if he would clean up his technique, and cut out the Aaron Rodgers impressions. BUT IMO Kizer's arm talent upside and potential will prove to be deciding factors, Hundley doesn't have to beat Kizer he has to be clearly better to stay up in the number 2 spot.

 

[easyk83]

Injury prone throughout high school and college(edit: he was a very good player, but big cry baby). We played against him in high school (I also played against Melvin Gordon)

Not sure how you could say injury prone in college, prior to hsi foot injury he managed to suit up for 47 straight games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not sure how you could say injury prone in college, prior to hsi foot injury he managed to suit up for 47 straight games.

Biegel never played more than eight games during his first three seasons at Wisconsin.

 

[easyk83]

Biegel never played more than eight games during his first three seasons at Wisconsin.

CFBstats has him for 13 in 15, 14 in 14 and 13 games in 13.

 

[swhitset]

Biegel never played more than eight games during his first three seasons at Wisconsin.

While I am not looking at the stats as I'm sure you did, My memory confirms this. I seem to remember him being injured several times.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I also found this on Biegel. He was medical redshirted his freshman year and got another year of eligibility.

Year Team GP
2012 Wisconsin 2
2013 Wisconsin 13
2014 Wisconsin 14
2015 Wisconsin 13
2016 Wisconsin 12
College Totals 54

 

[RRyder]

I highly doubt the Packers are capable of changing the CBA. How many other teams have had success developing quarterbacks drafted on day three over the past seven years???

Better question is how many teams have had success developing QBs drafted on any day of the draft the past seven years?

There's tons of QBs drafted in rounds 1-3 the last 7 years and "maybe" 20 good QBs in the league

 

[Deleted member 6794]

CFBstats has him for 13 in 15, 14 in 14 and 13 games in 13.

I also found this on Biegel. He was medical redshirted his freshman year and got another year of eligibility.

Year Team GP
2012 Wisconsin 2
2013 Wisconsin 13
2014 Wisconsin 14
2015 Wisconsin 13
2016 Wisconsin 12
College Totals 54

According to Sports Refernce he played in eight games in each of his first three season and 12 in 2016.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vince-biegel-1.html

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It seems that my source was off on Biegel's playing time with the Badgers though as he played in every single game from 2013-15 according to his Badgers bio. My bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It seems that my source was off on Biegel's playing time with the Badgers though as he played in every single game from 2013-15 according to his Badgers bio. My bad.

Stats are a funny thing, they can differ from site to site or the way they are interrupted can vary. I remember Biegel quite well and although he had his share of bumps and bruises, those numbers didn't sound right to me. Some also might be confusing him with former Badger LB Jack Cichy, who TB just drafted. Cichy only played in 24 games with 11 starts and sat out all of last year with a torn ACL.

 

[Dantés]

I fully expect Allison to make the roster as I don't believe all three rookies will pass him on the depth chart during the first season with the team.

I think his key to making it over all of the young guys is in his immediate value to the offense. If no one else is ready to start across from Adams right away, then Allison is safe. However, if one or two look as capable as he has, he might be a goner not because all of them "pass him" but because he has a lower ceiling for the future than these other players. And it isn't just the rookies-- Clark and Yancey are part of this discussion as well.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think his key to making it over all of the young guys is in his immediate value to the offense. If no one else is ready to start across from Adams right away, then Allison is safe. However, if one or two look as capable as he has, he might be a goner not because all of them "pass him" but because he has a lower ceiling for the future than these other players. And it isn't just the rookies-- Clark and Yancey are part of this discussion as well.

Dumping Jordy and I do consider what they did, dumping him, shows that Goot isn't going to just hang on to guys because of their time in Green Bay and or the hope of a complete transformation (Randall). However, with the lack of experience at WR beyond Adams, Cobb and Allison, I'm not so sure I would be excited about seeing 3 rookies + Davis (kept because of his return abilities) and Allison cut. As you said, the rookies are going to have to look as good, if not better than Allison just to cast off a guy that right now is the #3 WR. I would love all of them to be really good right away, but I don't expect it. Ideally, one of those rookies looks pretty decent at WR, but also excels at returning punts and kicks, than Davis is expendable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Stats are a funny thing, they can differ from site to site or the way they are interrupted can vary.

Sports Refernce is normally pretty accurate. It seems they messed up on Biegel though.

I think his key to making it over all of the young guys is in his immediate value to the offense. If no one else is ready to start across from Adams right away, then Allison is safe. However, if one or two look as capable as he has, he might be a goner not because all of them "pass him" but because he has a lower ceiling for the future than these other players. And it isn't just the rookies-- Clark and Yancey are part of this discussion as well.

I agree that Allison most likely has a lower ceiling than all of the three rookies drafted but I expect him to secure a roster spot as he will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In the case of Rookies, the WR position might be where I get the most excited about potential. Maybe because of having AR at QB, as well as WR being a position having the possibility of creating a lot of excitement and impact during a game. Every year I get excited about any WR drafted by the Packer as well as the UDFA's, then reality hits and I see them play. Maybe having such a long list of duds come through Green Bay in recent history has my juices flowing at a higher level with these 3 guys? So should we all be excited about the 14th WR selected (Moore), the 18th (MVS) and the 24th (EQ) or are we just setting ourselves up for disappointment?

 

[Dantés]

I agree that Allison most likely has a lower ceiling than all of the three rookies drafted but I expect him to secure a roster spot as he will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season.

I envision the same thing. I'm just saying that if one or two of the young guys surprise and someone else wins that 3rd receiver role over him, he might be a goner. Because they might choose to keep a younger, rawer rookie with upside as the 5th/6th receiver over Allison.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Brett could turn into an effective qb if he would clean up his technique, and cut out the Aaron Rodgers impressions. BUT IMO Kizer's arm talent upside and potential will prove to be deciding factors, Hundley doesn't have to beat Kizer he has to be clearly better to stay up in the number 2 spot.

Some of my frustration with Hundley last year had more to do with the coaches. Look at what Philadelphia did with Roles last season. He was not doing well until the coaches started designing plays to his strengths. Despite what they said about simplifying the play calls they did not seem to game plan to help Hundley.

 

[Mondio]

Some of my frustration with Hundley last year had more to do with the coaches. Look at what Philadelphia did with Roles last season. He was not doing well until the coaches started designing plays to his strengths. Despite what they said about simplifying the play calls they did not seem to game plan to help Hundley.

But they did and a HUGE difference between Foles and Hundley, when they went down field for a big play, Foles hit those passes. Hundley missed badly more often than not.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Flynn solely being successful in Green Bay could be attributed to McCarthy's work with him as well.



Feel free to use Pro Football Reference's play index to figure it out.



I highly doubt the Packers are capable of changing the CBA. How many other teams have had success developing quarterbacks drafted on day three over the past seven years???

To the first point, Flynn's record upon leaving Green Bay would lead many to believe that the offensive talent around him made him far more than he actually was. For the second point, why thank you! As for the final point, I did note that changing the CBA was impossible and, as for how many other teams have had success, aren't most arguing that MM is some kind of QB developing guru? Why would I compare him to the plethora of average or bad coaches in the league? If we're pretending that he's got some talent for developing QBs then he SHOULD have more success developing talent than other coaches, otherwise what is the talent for?

 

[gatorpack]

I can't wait to see how the WR position shakes out. It's going to be the land of the giants out wide and Jimmy Graham I love it!

 

[Mondio]

To the first point, Flynn's record upon leaving Green Bay would lead many to believe that the offensive talent around him made him far more than he actually was. For the second point, why thank you! As for the final point, I did note that changing the CBA was impossible and, as for how many other teams have had success, aren't most arguing that MM is some kind of QB developing guru? Why would I compare him to the plethora of average or bad coaches in the league? If we're pretending that he's got some talent for developing QBs then he SHOULD have more success developing talent than other coaches, otherwise what is the talent for?

So basically what you're saying is the great QBs don't count because they're great, but the ones that weren't great show he's not good at coaching QBs because they didn't end up great?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So basically what you're saying is the great QBs don't count because they're great, but the ones that weren't great show he's not good at coaching QBs because they didn't end up great?

Yup. You have accurately described my position. I don't know why I wasted so many words in my explanations. Sure, MM has been an underwhelming offensive coach with any QB not named Rodgers/Favre, sure he took years to begin the process of modernizing the offense, sure his elite offense put up zero points in a half against the Falcons in a playoff game (the same Falcons D the Pats scored 34 against minus Gronk) but my main issue is that great QBs don't count.

 

[Jerellh528]

I agree that Allison most likely has a lower ceiling than all of the three rookies drafted but I expect him to secure a roster spot as he will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season.

I agree that a good guess would be to think that Geronimo will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season considering his familiarity, but that’s far from a given imo. He has a total of 35 receptions over 2 years in Green Bay, not exactly safe production for a player with such a limited ceiling. He hasn’t proven that he’s above replacement level and will have to fight hard to earn a spot like the others imo.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yup. You have accurately described my position. I don't know why I wasted so many words in my explanations. Sure, MM has been an underwhelming offensive coach with any QB not named Rodgers/Favre, sure he took years to begin the process of modernizing the offense, sure his elite offense put up zero points in a half against the Falcons in a playoff game (the same Falcons D the Pats scored 34 against minus Gronk) but my main issue is that great QBs don't count.

Prior to Rodgers injury, how many games exactly did MM coach the Packers without a QB named Favre/Rodgers. Seems like you are basing this opinion on 2/3 of a season spent with trying to right the ship with Hundley. Not even sure if Vince L. could have done that, but of course, you are going to blame MM for that. For people to say that MM sucks if it wasn't for Favre or Rodgers is really a leap, it is automatically assuming that it was only Favre and Rodgers that made the offense what it was and that MM had no part in that.