Training Camp Position Battles

[Deleted member 6794]

So should we all be excited about the 14th WR selected (Moore), the 18th (MVS) and the 24th (EQ) or are we just setting ourselves up for disappointment?

I don't expect any of the rookies to put up impressive numbers as one of them most likely will be the fifth receiving option at best. Their ability to possibly stretch the field might open up room for Adams, Cobb and Graham though.

I envision the same thing. I'm just saying that if one or two of the young guys surprise and someone else wins that 3rd receiver role over him, he might be a goner. Because they might choose to keep a younger, rawer rookie with upside as the 5th/6th receiver over Allison.

That's a distinct possibility if one of the rookie receivers earns the starting job opposite of Adams. I don't believe that will happen until later in the season though.

Some of my frustration with Hundley last year had more to do with the coaches. Look at what Philadelphia did with Roles last season. He was not doing well until the coaches started designing plays to his strengths. Despite what they said about simplifying the play calls they did not seem to game plan to help Hundley.

You have to realize that Foles is a veteran quarterback who led the league in passer rating during the 2013 season while throwing 27 touchdowns with only two interceptions that year though.

To the first point, Flynn's record upon leaving Green Bay would lead many to believe that the offensive talent around him made him far more than he actually was.

On the other hand there's a point to be made that Flynn didn't have any success without McCarthy being the head coach.

I agree that a good guess would be to think that Geronimo will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season considering his familiarity, but that’s far from a given imo. He has a total of 35 receptions over 2 years in Green Bay, not exactly safe production for a player with such a limited ceiling. He hasn’t proven that he’s above replacement level and will have to fight hard to earn a spot like the others imo.

Allison will definitely have to fight for a roster spot but at the moment he's clearly ahead of all the rookie receivers on the depth chart.

 

[sschind]

As much as I don't think we will go with three rookie WRs on the roster I don't see anyone else besides Allison beating them out.

On one hand I see it as Adams, Cobb, Allison and the three rookies and frankly it scares me. If Davis makes it because of his return ability I think we keep 7. Part of me seeing it that way is what Poker posted about being excited about the new crop of rookie WRs every year so maybe its not so much I see it happening that way as I hope it happens that way and some of them actually pan out.

On the other hand, like I said up front, I just don't see 3 rookie WRs making the final 53. I think Moore and St Brown have the best chance with Gary Shandling, or whatever his name is, making the practice squad.

I agree that a good guess would be to think that Geronimo will be able to contribute more to the offense early this season considering his familiarity, but that’s far from a given imo. He has a total of 35 receptions over 2 years in Green Bay, not exactly safe production for a player with such a limited ceiling. He hasn’t proven that he’s above replacement level and will have to fight hard to earn a spot like the others imo.

While I do believe he has the upper hand I agree it is far from a given. His receptions and targets over two years are not great but they did both almost double from year 1 to year 2 so that may be an indicator that he is poised to be more of a contributor.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

best chance with Gary Shandling, or whatever his name is, making the practice squad.

Glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I do believe he has the upper hand I agree it is far from a given. His receptions and targets over two years are not great but they did both almost double from year 1 to year 2 so that may be an indicator that he is poised to be more of a contributor.

Allison had a stretch of four regular season games at the end of 2016 as well as the start of 2017 in which he had 17 receptions for 303 yards. While that is a small sample size he definitely proved being capable of putting up decent numbers with Rodgers throwing him the ball. He has to be more consistant though.

 

[Dantés]

Allison had a stretch of four regular season games at the end of 2016 as well as the start of 2017 in which he had 17 receptions for 303 yards. While that is a small sample size he definitely proved being capable of putting up decent numbers with Rodgers throwing him the ball. He has to be more consistant though.

And while it would be nice if a rookie or 2nd year guy unseated him and allowed the team to keep more of the young, high upside players, I think in general it's a big positive that they have someone on the roster capable of contributing to the offense right away. They don't have to count on the super raw player.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Let's not forget that Allison just turned 24 in January and has only been in the system 2 years as an UDFA. Year 2-3 is when we see start to see what WR's can do, especially for those guys who weren't drafted high and didn't get a lot of reps. Allison had a nice 122 yard game against the Bengals, when Rodgers was the QB.

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[sschind]

I'm not sure if I am coming around to the idea of Allison being the #3 guy because I feel he is up to it or because I don't really see that there is any other option. I think we all agree that it takes a while for most WRs to gel in the Packer system and as such it is unrealistic to expect any of the rookies to make a huge impact this year. We can certainly hope one or even more of them does but to expect it ... I wouldn't count on it. That leaves Allison as the most likely candidate to break out given his 2 years with the team and current position on the depth chart. Obviously that could change as camp progresses but if Allison being #3 is inevitable I might as well try to be positive about it.

 

[sschind]

Allison had a stretch of four regular season games at the end of 2016 as well as the start of 2017 in which he had 17 receptions for 303 yards. While that is a small sample size he definitely proved being capable of putting up decent numbers with Rodgers throwing him the ball. He has to be more consistant though.

And we can't forget that he didn't have Rodgers throwing him the ball for much of last season. I think you have to be careful not to put too much stock in any player's production, or lack thereof, when that very production is so dependent on someone else and that someone else was so inferior to the regular someone else. In other words how much of Allison's lack of production or improvement was due to Hundley and not Rodgers throwing him the ball and how much was due to his own abilities.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And we can't forget that he didn't have Rodgers throwing him the ball for much of last season. I think you have to be careful not to put too much stock in any player's production, or lack thereof, when that very production is so dependent on someone else and that someone else was so inferior to the regular someone else. In other words how much of Allison's lack of production or improvement was due to Hundley and not Rodgers throwing him the ball and how much was due to his own abilities.

True, but for whatever reason Allison didn't record a single reception while only being targeted twice over the next two games with Rodgers starting at quarterback after he had a breakout game vs. the Bengals (6-122). He definitely has to be more consistant.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

True, but for whatever reason Allison didn't record a single reception while only being targeted twice over the next two games with Rodgers starting at quarterback after he had a breakout game vs. the Bengals (6-122). He definitely has to be more consistant.

Agreed and I am not saying Allison is going to be the next Jordy, Adams or Cobb, but it took those 3 some time to develop and start producing. Hell, many people were ready to ship Adams out of Green Bay. But with Allison being an UDFA, not starting with their same skill sets or given the amount of playing time, he has an uphill battle to prove himself, as will the 3 rookies.

 

[sschind]

True, but for whatever reason Allison didn't record a single reception while only being targeted twice over the next two games with Rodgers starting at quarterback after he had a breakout game vs. the Bengals (6-122). He definitely has to be more consistant.

Agreed but maybe its not Allison that needs to be more consistent. Maybe Rodgers and the Packers need to be more consistent in utilizing him. Like you said, for whatever reason his targets decreased over the next few games and I am sure it was not his idea. Still, he was lower on the depth chart for a reason and the lower you are the fewer targets you are going to get and the more streaky they will tend to be. You may get single game bumps like against the Bengals then you will disappear for a few games. Assuming he wins the starting roll opposite Adams, and I think he will, at least to start the season, I would expect his targets to rise considerably and be a bit more consistent. The Packers and Rodgers will do their part now it will be up to him to show he is worthy of keeping the job.

 

[Jerellh528]

Agreed and I am not saying Allison is going to be the next Jordy, Adams or Cobb, but it took those 3 some time to develop and start producing. Hell, many people were ready to ship Adams out of Green Bay. But with Allison being an UDFA, not starting with their same skill sets or given the amount of playing time, he has an uphill battle to prove himself, as will the 3 rookies.

You can leave Cobb out of that group, Cobb had almost 1000 yards and 8 tds in his second season. Adams had the same receptions and yards in his rookie season that Allison has had in his first two years combined. Jordy only had 100 receptions through his first 3 seasons, you’re right about him, but he was sitting with a pretty stacked group of pass catchers and was vastly more talented than Allison. We will see what happens, I think Allison has the inside track to the starting spot mostly due to having a few seasons here and having caught balls from the goat already, but I wouldn’t put money on it. Also having a new(old) OC may not be in Allison’s favor, it kinda puts him on equal footing with the rooks as far as maybe Philbin not being familiar with any of them and not knowing all the plays, he has caught passes from Rodgers before though which is pretty big.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Agreed but maybe its not Allison that needs to be more consistent. Maybe Rodgers and the Packers need to be more consistent in utilizing him. Like you said, for whatever reason his targets decreased over the next few games and I am sure it was not his idea. Still, he was lower on the depth chart for a reason and the lower you are the fewer targets you are going to get and the more streaky they will tend to be. You may get single game bumps like against the Bengals then you will disappear for a few games. Assuming he wins the starting roll opposite Adams, and I think he will, at least to start the season, I would expect his targets to rise considerably and be a bit more consistent. The Packers and Rodgers will do their part now it will be up to him to show he is worthy of keeping the job.

That is probably one of the reasons they felt that they could let Jordy go. They felt that besides Graham, they had Allison or another receiver to step up.

 

[sschind]

You can leave Cobb out of that group, Cobb had almost 1000 yards and 8 tds in his second season. Adams had the same receptions and yards in his rookie season that Allison has had in his first two years combined. Jordy only had 100 receptions through his first 3 seasons, you’re right about him, but he was sitting with a pretty stacked group of pass catchers and was vastly more talented than Allison. We will see what happens, I think Allison has the inside track to the starting spot mostly due to having a few seasons here and having caught balls from the goat already, but I wouldn’t put money on it. Also having a new(old) OC may not be in Allison’s favor, it kinda puts him on equal footing with the rooks as far as maybe Philbin not being familiar with any of them and not knowing all the plays, he has caught passes from Rodgers before though which is pretty big.

This might be the most important factor for whoever wins that spot. We have young guys and rookies competing for a starting spot not just a spot on the roster. Whether its Allison or one of the rookies or someone else they are going to see more targets and hopefully receptions than young guys and rookies in the past simply because "better" options are not there. That would be huge for the development of whoever wins the job.

 

[sschind]

That is probably one of the reasons they felt that they could let Jordy go. They felt that besides Graham, they had Allison or another receiver to step up.

Possibly, but I think they were ready to move on from Jordy anyway and given the interest in Robinson and apparently Watkins I'm not sure they were convinced they had his replacement on the roster. Once those two were out of the picture they had top go a different route (Graham) to try to replace his production which left Allison as the starter by default. By that time, when comparing Allison to the next level guys who were then available, Gute decided that he will be able to do the job as well as anyone left. I also think its one reason he went WR heavy in the draft rather than sign a lower level veteran. He obviously doesn't think to highly of them if he is willing to pin his hopes on a group of youngsters with less than 50 catches between them to hold down a pretty important position in their offense even if he will be the 4th receiving option.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You can leave Cobb out of that group, Cobb had almost 1000 yards and 8 tds in his second season. Adams had the same receptions and yards in his rookie season that Allison has had in his first two years combined. Jordy only had 100 receptions through his first 3 seasons, you’re right about him, but he was sitting with a pretty stacked group of pass catchers and was vastly more talented than Allison. We will see what happens, I think Allison has the inside track to the starting spot mostly due to having a few seasons here and having caught balls from the goat already, but I wouldn’t put money on it. Also having a new(old) OC may not be in Allison’s favor, it kinda puts him on equal footing with the rooks as far as maybe Philbin not being familiar with any of them and not knowing all the plays, he has caught passes from Rodgers before though which is pretty big.

Not sure you get my point. Allison hardly played his rookie year, spending 1/2 of it on the PS and only being targeted 22 times. Cobb was an immediate starter, but still took some time to catch on. My point was that it takes some time, meaning snaps in regular season games, for a WR to really start showing what they can or can't do. A guy like Cobb was given that opportunity, because he had the immediate skills to earn it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That is probably one of the reasons they felt that they could let Jordy go. They felt that besides Graham, they had Allison or another receiver to step up.

The Packers being interested in several high profile wide receivers as well as selecting three in this year's draft strongly indicates they aren't convinced Allison develops into a decent starter.

 

[Dantés]

Also just being real here— from what we know about Allison, is that a guy you’d want to give a 2nd contract to even if he was good?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Also just being real here— from what we know about Allison, is that a guy you’d want to give a 2nd contract to even if he was good?

If Allison produces decent numbers this season I would be in favor of offering him a reasonable contract next offseason.

 

[Dantés]

If Allison produces decent numbers this season I would be in favor of offering him a reasonable contract next offseason.

Unless he’s changed/matured dramatically since college, he’s not a guy I would want to give a lot of money to Allison.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Unless he’s changed/matured dramatically since college, he’s not a guy I would want to give a lot of money to.

I don't expect Allison to put up numbers in 2018 deserving of a huge offer next offseason.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

I don't think that Allison is a long term solution. I would not cry big crocodile tears to see Davis not make it. I am not impressed.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think that Allison is a long term solution. I would not cry big crocodile tears to see Davis not make it. I am not impressed.

Allison doesn't seem to be a long term solution but it's likely he will offer an upgrade over the rookies early this season. The Packers have to adequately replace Davis as a returner before being able to release him though.

 

[thequick12]

As much as I don't think we will go with three rookie WRs on the roster I don't see anyone else besides Allison beating them out.

On one hand I see it as Adams, Cobb, Allison and the three rookies and frankly it scares me. If Davis makes it because of his return ability I think we keep 7. Part of me seeing it that way is what Poker posted about being excited about the new crop of rookie WRs every year so maybe its not so much I see it happening that way as I hope it happens that way and some of them actually pan out.

On the other hand, like I said up front, I just don't see 3 rookie WRs making the final 53. I think Moore and St Brown have the best chance with Gary Shandling, or whatever his name is, making the practice squad.



While I do believe he has the upper hand I agree it is far from a given. His receptions and targets over two years are not great but they did both almost double from year 1 to year 2 so that may be an indicator that he is poised to be more of a contributor.

I think Michael Clark is gonna be better than Allison. Although that dropped td against the Vikings was baffling it looked like he intentionally let it fall incomplete. He has his hands in position then at the last second pulls them back and let's the ball fly by. Perhaps he needs glasses

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Michael Clark is gonna be better than Allison. Although that dropped td against the Vikings was baffling it looked like he intentionally let it fall incomplete. He has his hands in position then at the last second pulls them back and let's the ball fly by. Perhaps he needs glasses

The thing people have to remember is that Clark is about as raw as you will see in the NFL. He played basketball for 1 year at St. Francis of Pennsylvania. Although, he hadn't played Football since his freshman year in high school, he decided to switch sports and transferred to Marshall where he sat out one year to gain eligibility and played on one year, before declaring for the NFL.

I think he has the attributes to eventually become a good WR, but just not the experience and it might be another year or 2 before that happens, if at all.