The Free Agency Thread

[SD Cheesehead]

1. Any body know what we have left for cap space?
2. Who else is still out there for FA that we could be interested on another cheap deal like Lewis/Bell?
3. Who on our team is a possible surprise cut that could open up some extra cap space such as Sitton a few years back?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

1. Any body know what we have left for cap space?
2. Who else is still out there for FA that we could be interested on another cheap deal like Lewis/Bell?
3. Who on our team is a possible surprise cut that could open up some extra cap space such as Sitton a few years back?

According to Spotrac the Packers currently have $7.4 million in cap space. In my opinion the team should be interested in bringing in Robert Ayers. Bulaga seems to be the most likely player cut to create additional cap space.

 

[HardRightEdge]

According to Spotrac the Packers currently have $7.4 million in cap space. In my opinion the team should be interested in bringing in Robert Ayers. Bulaga seems to be the most likely player cut to create additional cap space.

The NFLPA web site shows approximately $10.9 mil in cap space. Go here https://www.nflpa.com/ and click on the "Salary Cap Report" box at the top. Note the report says it is updated daily.

It is uncertain whether the NFLPA includes the Lewis and Bell contracts. spotrac.com includes those subtractions, but is unclear whether those numbers are from an agent or a team source while the contract has not yet been formally approved by the league office. overthecap.com does not include those subtractions at this moment, but those subtractions do not account for their $13.7 mil in cap space, more than $6 mil over the spotrac number.

All contracts must pass muster with the league office to assure that (1) they conform with the CBA and (2) the contract does not put the team over the cap. So, there is some expected lag time between the first report of contract provisions and it's official approval. It should be pretty quick this time of year with the FA and rookie contract bursts behind us.

If Gutekunst can go a week without another signing we can revisit the numbers. The latest contracts should be cleared by now.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The NFLPA web site shows approximately $10.9 mil in cap space. Go here https://www.nflpa.com/ and click on the "Salary Cap Report" box at the top. Note the report says it is updated daily.

It is uncertain whether the NFLPA includes the Lewis and Bell contracts.

It's interesting to note that the NFLPA numbers list the Packers roster at 90 players which might indicate the contracts of Lewis and Bell have been accounted for.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Lewis is a huge upgrade blocking for the run, an area the Packers needed an upgrade from the tight end position over last season.

Great, so we can improve the play that takes the ball out of Rodgers' hands. I'm all for running the ball when the defense is obviously playing the pass but, by definition, those plays don't really require a great run blocker at TE. Any CALLED run plays just seem silly. Call passes, give the ball to your best player, and then audible when the defense is in a terrible run defense alignment.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It's interesting to note that the NFLPA numbers list the Packers roster at 90 players which might indicate the contracts of Lewis and Bell have been accounted for.

Not necessarily. It looks like the two signings replaced Mokofisi and Alsadek on the roster, 90 before and 90 after, so it is unclear whether the new contracts are in than NFLPA number.

As an asided, it might seem odd that the NFLPA list has several teams showing more than the maximum 90 players. Not so odd, actually, since PUPs, IRs, non-reports and non-football injuries don't count toward the 90.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Great, so we can improve the play that takes the ball out of Rodgers' hands. I'm all for running the ball when the defense is obviously playing the pass but, by definition, those plays don't really require a great run blocker at TE. Any CALLED run plays just seem silly. Call passes, give the ball to your best player, and then audible when the defense is in a terrible run defense alignment.

The Packers must definitely run the ball more often than when the defense lines up in a terrible formation against it. Otherwise the offensive line will have huge troubles protecting Rodgers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not necessarily. It looks like the two signings replaced Mokofisi and Alsadek on the roster, 90 before and 90 after, so it is unclear whether the new contracts are in than NFLPA number.

I'm quite sure the NFLPA has already accounted for the two players having been released.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm quite sure the NFLPA has already accounted for the two players having been released.

If that's the case, then overthecap.com is the more accurate representation. Take their cap number and subtract the difference between the new contracts (which they have not yet included) and the guys bumped off the top 51 and you get pretty close to the NFLPA cap space number. I'll wait a few more days before revisiting the salary cap thread.

 

[Dantés]

The angst from some over the Packers signing a good veteran blocking TE is pretty amusing.

 

[n4t]

The angst from some over the Packers signing a good veteran blocking TE is pretty amusing.

Yea its pretty indicative of not knowing much about football. Having offensive skill players that can block (including run blocking) is something this team has often missed, and it has made running the ball a non-starter for this team for many seasons.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If that's the case, then overthecap.com is the more accurate representation. Take their cap number and subtract the difference between the new contracts (which they have not yet included) and the guys bumped off the top 51 and you get pretty close to the NFLPA cap space number. I'll wait a few more days before revisiting the salary cap thread.

Both the NFLPA and Spotrac have similar numbers for the Packers current team cap but for some I'm not capable of figuring out the players union website lists the team with an additional $3.4 million cap space.

Yea its pretty indicative of not knowing much about football. Having offensive skill players that can block (including run blocking) is something this team has often missed, and it has made running the ball a non-starter for this team for many seasons.

There's no doubt that the offense benefits from adding an elite run blocker but the unit was pretty successful running the ball last season ranking fifth in yards per attempt.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Both the NFLPA and Spotrac have similar numbers for the Packers current team cap but for some I'm not capable of figuring out the players union website lists the team with an additional $3.4 million cap space.

Lets start with the NFLPA basic info (using round numbers) which has to be the definitive source assuming league contract approval followed by NFLPA posting has caught with the initial signing announcements:

https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report

Previous Year Carryover: $3.9 mil (As an aside, who were those additional name free agents folks wanted signed last season? More than I care to recall. Champaign tastes on a beer budget.)
Team Cap: $173.6 mil
Cap Room: $10.9 mil

The first thing we notice is the stated Team Cap number is lower than even the league cap of $177.2 mil. Something's missing. It looks like it does not include dead cap.

$3.9 mil carryover + $177.2 mil league cap = $181.1 gross cap number - $173.6 Team Cap = $7.5 mil discrepancy.

both overthecap.com and spotrac.com show $8.0 in dead cap. That's darn close to that discrepancy. I think that closes one circle. The Packers gross cap number before dead cap subtraction is $181.1 mil.

That number is exactly what spotrac.com shows as the Adjusted Salary Cap:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap/

So far so good.

However, their $7.4 mil in current top 51 cap space is $3.5 mil light compared to the NFLPA. The Lewis and Bell cap numbers combined, as included in spotrac.com's current numbers, is $3.8 mil. Subtract from that number two guys they replace in the top 51 @ $550,000 each and you get a $2.7 mil deduction from the top 51 cap room for those two newest players. That's very close to the NFLPA numbers if the NFLPA has not yet posted the new contracts.

I agree with your earlier post that the 90 head count suggests these newest players are in that number, but who knows if there isn't also a lag in recording the cuts they replaced. Maybe they go back and re-verify the cap add for those cut contracts. Maybe somebody's on vacation. Or maybe spotrac.com is simply off by $3.8 mil on the individual contracts as you suggest. I'd wait a little while longer to see if the NFLPA numbers have more settling out to do.

overthecap.com has a different issue: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/

If you add their top 51 cap hit of $162.8 mil to their $13.7 mil cap space, you get an implied Team Cap of $176.5 mil, $2.9 mil more than the NFLPA data suggests. That would be a pretty obvious mistake that should be easily rectified which begs the question, "why haven't they?"

Anyway, subtract that $2.9 mil discrepancy from their $13.7 mil cap space, and you get to $10.8 mil in cap space, nearly spot on with the NFLPA number. One problem with that: they have not yet included the Lewis and Bell net $2.7 mil cap charge so they still appear to be off by that $2.7 mil.

My takeaway from all this is that for the aggregate team numbers, we're not going to have a better source than the NFLPA, allowing some time for announced contracts to be incorporated. For individual contract info, it's probably best to check both sportrac and overthecap to see if they are the same or close before drawing any conclusions. If one wants to get crazy with it, spot check rotoworld.com since they sometimes have nuggets of detail for individual contracts that the others don't include:

http://www.rotoworld.com/teams/contracts/nfl/gb/green-bay-packers?rw=1

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Lets start with the NFLPA basic info (using round numbers) which has to be the definitive source assuming league contract approval followed by NFLPA posting has caught with the initial signing announcements:

https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report

Previous Year Carryover: $3.9 mil (As an aside, who were those additional name free agents folks wanted signed last season? More than I care to recall. Champaign tastes on a beer budget.)
Team Cap: $173.6 mil
Cap Room: $10.9 mil

The first thing we notice is the stated Team Cap number is lower than even the league cap of $177.2 mil. Something's missing. It looks like it does not include dead cap.

$3.9 mil carryover + $177.2 mil league cap = $181.1 gross cap number - $173.6 Team Cap = $7.5 mil discrepancy.

both overthecap.com and spotrac.com show $8.0 in dead cap. That's darn close to that discrepancy. I think that closes one circle. The Packers gross cap number before dead cap subtraction is $181.1 mil.

I'm all but convinced that the team cap on the NFLPA's website is the current amount the Packers have allocated towards the cap (top 51 contracts plus dead money). It doesn't make any sense to consider that number as the team's cap space for the 2018 season as it's less than the general cap of $177.2 million which has been set in March.

I don't understand why the players association has the Packers listed with $10.8 million of cap space when according to their own rollover numbers the team should have $181.1 million of cap space available.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm all but convinced that the team cap on the NFLPA's website is the current amount the Packers have allocated towards the cap (top 51 contracts plus dead money). It doesn't make any sense to consider that number as the team's cap space for the 2018 season as it's less than the general cap of $177.2 million which has been set in March.

I don't understand why the players association has the Packers listed with $10.8 million of cap space when according to their own rollover numbers the team should have $181.1 million of cap space available.

I disagree. You missed my point that it looks like the NFLPA has deducted dead cap as a starting point from the $181.1 mil total availabe cap to get to the $173.6 mil Team Cap which explains why it is less than the league $177.2 mil.

Take the $181.1 mil, subtract the dead cap as reported by the other sites and you get to the $173.6 mil Team Cap. The numbers sync and resolve the question in your second paragraph.

I'm convinced the Team Cap is what the team has to spend this year, including rollover, less dead cap.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I disagree. You missed my point that it looks like the NFLPA has deducted dead cap as a starting point from the $181.1 mil total availabe cap to get to the $173.6 mil Team Cap which explains why it is less than the league $177.2 mil.

Take the $181.1 mil, subtract the dead cap as reported by the other sites and you get to the $173.6 mil Team Cap. The numbers sync and resolve the question in your second paragraph.

I'm convinced the Team Cap is what the team has to spend this year, including rollover, less dead cap.

While that might work for the Packers as the numbers are pretty close to each other try that with the Browns for example and it doesn't end up fitting.

Cleveland rolled over $58.9 million into 2018 resulting in $236.1 million of total cap space for this season. With $15 million in dead money they would have $221.1 million of team cap under your scenario. According to the NFLPA's website that number is at $169 million though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

While that might work for the Packers as the numbers are pretty close to each other try that with the Browns for example and it doesn't end up fitting.

Cleveland rolled over $58.9 million into 2018 resulting in $236.1 million of total cap space for this season. With $15 million in dead money they would have $221.1 million of team cap under your scenario. According to the NFLPA's website that number is at $169 million though.

You're right. Given the large discrepancy in the Cleveland example, my earlier certainty is rendered null and void.

That takes us back to your earlier statement, "I'm all but convinced that the team cap on the NFLPA's website is the current amount the Packers have allocated towards the cap (top 51 contracts plus dead money)." That accounts for fewer and smaller discrepancies.

In the Cleveland eaxmple that $169 mil cap hit syncs up pretty close with spotracs $168 mil while overthecap is lagging at $157 mil.

That takes us to the oddity you identified: "Both the NFLPA and Spotrac have similar numbers for the Packers current team cap but for some [reason] I'm not capable of figuring out [why] the players union website lists the team with an additional $3.4 million cap space."

I can't account for that $3.4 mil discrepancey either, after trying once and failing , but I'll offer a last conjecture. A few years back I vaguely recall reading about team-specific "cap adjustments" in addition to carryover, though I cannot remember the causes nor find an old or current source discussing them. This link https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/mentions "net incentive adjustments" but does not go on to explain them. It kinda sounds like unlikely to be earned incentives being earned which which drive the cap space down. Or in this case perhaps game day roster bonuses likely to be earned but which are not earned due to injury get added back into the cap after the carryover amount is set. Or some of both plusses and minuses netted out as the phrase suggests.

If you look at overthecap's top 51 + dead cap + remaining cap space, they've applied some upward cap adjustment in addition to carryover that narrows the $3.5 mil discrepancy to about $1 mil. And once they get around to posting the recent two FA signings, the avilable cap space should get close to the NFLPA number. overthecap, on balance, syncs better than spotrac with the NFLPA numbers though slower posting individual contracts.
tow
That exhuasts my thinking on the matter without additional info. For now, +/- $10.5 mil current cap space seems as good a number as any; it's the NFLPA number and overthecap comes close with expected updates. One would hope the various sources adjust toward closer agreement, though I can't say I expect it.

 

[Half Empty]

In the time it took to read this far, all the websites have changed their numbers. Time to start again.

 

[HardRightEdge]

In the time it took to read this far, all the websites have changed their numbers. Time to start again.

Actually, they didn't. But they will. They always do. It's an ongoing process. Note I am not acknowleging your attempt at humor.

There isn't any point in revisiting the numbers until something of consequece happens to affect them. The draftees are signed, their numbers were recently posted, followed in short order by a couple of FA signings.

It's almost time for the two-year outlook to be met with .

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yea its pretty indicative of not knowing much about football. Having offensive skill players that can block (including run blocking) is something this team has often missed, and it has made running the ball a non-starter for this team for many seasons.

Lewis is as tall as an OT and his wieght is equal to or more than a typical edge rusher. I see 276 lbs.which looks about right. Evidently, he's healthy or they would not have signed him. He might be the best RT on the roster at the moment, a throwback to 1970.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can't account for that $3.4 mil discrepancey either, after trying once and failing , but I'll offer a last conjecture. A few years back I vaguely recall reading about team-specific "cap adjustments" in addition to carryover, though I cannot remember the causes nor find an old or current source discussing them. This link https://russellstreetreport.com/salarycap/nfl-salary-cap-faqs/mentions "net incentive adjustments" but does not go on to explain them. It kinda sounds like unlikely to be earned incentives being earned which which drive the cap space down. Or in this case perhaps game day roster bonuses likely to be earned but which are not earned due to injury get added back into the cap after the carryover amount is set. Or some of both plusses and minuses netted out as the phrase suggests.

Spotrac even has accounted for such a category in their salary cap overview but has the Packers listed with an adjustment of $0 for the 2018 season.

Lewis is as tall as an OT and his wieght is equal to or more than a typical edge rusher. He might be the best RT on the roster at the moment, a throwback to 1970.

While that might be true as a run blocker Lewis struggles in pass protection.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Spotrac even has accounted for such a category in their salary cap overview but has the Packers listed with an adjustment of $0 for the 2018 season.

It took several different seach strings, but I found the answer:

"The Packers’ adjusted cap number is $185,153,268, which includes $3,934,518 in cap space they are carrying over from 2017 and $4,018,750 in unidentified credits and adjustments.

https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...ary-cap-space-entering-free-agency/410810002/

Again, while the NFLPA does not break out dead cap, the one aggregate number where spotrac and and overthecap are in very close agreement is the dead cap amount, $8,026,067 vs. $8,031,090, respectively.

If we add $8.03 mil for dead cap to the NFLPA Carryover and Team Cap we get an adjusted cap number of $185,611,629. The discrepancy is less than $500,000 which could be accounted for in a variety of ways given arcane provisions such as, "The Packers’ cap room may go down another $700,000 when the new year starts because the tolled contract of cornerback Demetri Goodson will show up again on their cap. Goodson was on the physically unable to perform list most of last year and did not appear in a game". Or the dead cap numbers could be wrong.

It's pretty disappointing that web sites that do this for a living cannot incorporate high level aggreagate numbers that have been in the public domain for 3 months. You'd think, at the very least, they would check the NFLPA web site's Cap Room, identify major discrepencies with their own numbers, and then work their way backward to figure out where they are off. So here we are, doing it for them.

I think it is fair to say that henceforth the NFLPA's Cap Room is the number to reference for available cap space after allowing a bit of time for announced contracts and cuts to flow into that number.

While that might be true as a run blocker Lewis struggles in pass protection.

As a TE, I would think Lewis has been used only sporadically in pass blocking. A steady diet of reps and some "coach him up" might do the trick.

 

[gbgary]

Packers opened up a roster spot today. where's that FrozenTakesInGB guy? lol

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers have signed DL Joey Mbu. He went undrafted in 2015 after being collegiate ball at Houston and has appeared in nine NFL games for the Falcons and Colts over the past three seasons.

https://www.packers.com/news/packer..._CT-Roster Moves-GB_sf191530861&sf191530861=1

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers have signed DL Joey Mbu. He went undrafted in 2015 after being collegiate ball at Houston and has appeared in nine NFL games for the Falcons and Colts over the past three seasons.

https://www.packers.com/news/packers-sign-dt-joey-mbu?campaign=sf191530861_TW_C-Content-GB_CT-Roster Moves-GB_sf191530861&sf191530861=1

Well THAT was the missing piece! Super Bowl here we come!