The bolder part is so important. And there was a learning curve. You are completely correct by saying that at the end of the season, that defense was/is legit. I predict, that they will give the Pats a hard time too. It is either that they can learn faster than the Packs defensive players or our scheme is too complex. I mean the average packer defender needs like three years to understand the play book, no actually to simply grasp it. Whereas the rookies of the Falcons needed like half a season to fully grasp it and to perform at a high level imo. Whatever the reason is, TT should be be held responsible. (at least partially)
Ted Thompson Era Should Be Over
- Thread starter PackerfaninCarolina
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The bolder part is so important. And there was a learning curve. You are completely correct by saying that at the end of the season, that defense was/is legit. I predict, that they will give the Pats a hard time too. It is either that they can learn faster than the Packs defensive players or our scheme is too complex. I mean the average packer defender needs like three years to understand the play book, no actually to simply grasp it. Whereas the rookies of the Falcons needed like half a season to fully grasp it and to perform at a high level imo. Whatever the reason is, TT should be be held responsible. (at least partially)
Vince Lombardi
Cheesehead
TT should be held responsible for the lack of talent & speed on the defense. Capers should be held responsible for having such a complex scheme for all these young guys they have EVERY year. I hear & see the same thing every year. "Miscommunication in the secondary" Either dumb it down or change the scheme to work with the talent you have! I really think its time to move on from Capers & his entire staff!
not so sure about that.... the defensive backfield and the defensive line need to complement each other.. when is the last time you saw the packers get what is commonly referred to as a coverage sack?
RRyder
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You mean like how they've turned away from Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise making 25+ million per movie?
Players make pay relative to the money they generate torwards the league. That's how the salary cap works. You can argue that it might be smarter from a team building standpoint to take less money but saying the star players aren't worth even seemingly absurd salaries, at least absurd by normal standards, is categorically wrong and citing a league like NBA exemplifies that as if a guy like Lebron or a Kobe, when he was still playing at a top level, would've/could've been paid what they were actually worth in terms of the revenue they were bringing in they would be making around 60-80 million a year.
In the NFL if you simply look at our Aaron Rodgers if he were to actually make a salary in line with the money he alone brings into the Packers he'd be making around 40 million.
It's easy to say these guys make enough money when you're not the one with opportunity to turn 10 million into 20. Make as much money as you can I say. If you have a problem with that please never go see a movie again that features a Will Smith type of actor because they get paid even more for less work and don't have to put their bodies on the line
Kitten
Feline Cheesehead
I have a question for those of you who wish to see the last of TT. In order to not deviate from the course of this thread, say hypothetically, TT was fired for reasons brought up in this thread. Who would you replace him with and what qualities would you wish the new GM to have?
The issue of firing TT cannot be asked without considering his replacement.
The issue of firing TT cannot be asked without considering his replacement.
Dantés
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I'm not advocating for Thompson to be fired. I think he's an upper echelon GM. But he's not perfect, and my main criticism would be that he is too rigid in his refusal to use free agency. I think being selectively aggressive with the open market could add a lot to the roster.
sjb12681
Cheesehead
For the sake of jumping in when I have been away for quite some time, I would go with the natural choice of Eliot Wolf:
http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...ackers-ted-thompson-general-manager-nfl-draft
He has been around the game a long time, its practically all he knows.
He has pedigree (which counts for little IMO on its own merits) that is homegrown
The Packers think highly enough to continue to promote him, to the point of creating positions for him to keep him from other interviews in the past.
Just looking into the above article, he has shown the needed pre-req to ID talent (even on other rosters) that fit needs at the right time, and has made those known to decision makers.
He also is likely to deviate from the current draft and develop only mentality in place that seems to be a boon as much if not more than a boom in title-town recently.
PackerFanLV
Cheesehead
Guess TT told him "Im here to stay, move on young cub, move on."
It will be more of the same if we don't say heck with worrying about cap problems down the road. The time to win is now. Wasting the prime of Aaron Rodgers is sad. And the offensive breakdowns vs. the Falcons shows again why you need to be solid on both sides of the ball. Same with the 2011 team, who averaged 35 points per game in the regular season, then the offense sputtered in the playoff game and we were left with that awful defense to rely on, and lost.
And stop drafting short armed defenders, it does matter almost all the time, and Clark has short arms so I doubt he will ever be all that effective. Hope he becomes a Pro-Bowl type, but I doubt that he will.
If Wolf leaves that leaves the team with no obvious heir to TT, so settle in for the same old same old. To me, only making the SB is the objective, just as it is with the Patriots. Too bad we wasted that game two years ago and melted down vs. the Seahawks, settling for red zone FG's. Again, the offense didn't do its job, so we had to rely on that defense. Ugh.
And stop drafting short armed defenders, it does matter almost all the time, and Clark has short arms so I doubt he will ever be all that effective. Hope he becomes a Pro-Bowl type, but I doubt that he will.
If Wolf leaves that leaves the team with no obvious heir to TT, so settle in for the same old same old. To me, only making the SB is the objective, just as it is with the Patriots. Too bad we wasted that game two years ago and melted down vs. the Seahawks, settling for red zone FG's. Again, the offense didn't do its job, so we had to rely on that defense. Ugh.
How do you explain all of our 2 year corners regressing.... If the theory is that the defense is too complex. Wouldn't they be getting better and not worse? Or is it the result solely of missing shields this season?
I'd said recently that IMO TT should be gone after this year even if the team won the SB. His way and methods will not be adequate to keep this team in the leagues upper echelon, much less do the things needed to put this team over the top.
You need to define upper echelon if it is not the same as is commonly used. Every time you are a CCG participant, you are in the upper echelon. Especially if you are expected to be there when the season kicks off in Sept. As to keeping them there, it is an annual discussion as to which of the handful of teams will play in the SB and the Packers are always in it. so yeah, his methods do keep them in the upper echelon. (Even if you give all credit to Rodgers.) What they don't do is put them over the top. Instead of holding the window open to a SB trophy year after year only to be stopped by one year wonders, I'd rather he go all in and be the one / two year wonders. and have the window closed for retooling a season or two and then do it again.
Vince Lombardi
Cheesehead
Can't explain it. Rollins was injured quite a bit. Randall also had injury problems. Quite possible that maybe they just aren't that good!
IMO, 'upper echelon ' would be the top half dozen of the teams in the NFL, give or take.
I do not believe that with the issues facing this team now and in the future that Thompson's way- specifically, sticking rigidly to it- will be enough to keep them there, much less 'get over the hump'.
Injuries do not account for how utterly lost in coverage Randall is, and for his seeming lack of desire and effort.
But his methods have kept them there. Past 10 seasons have seen 4 NFCCG participants and 3 more teams play in the divisional round game. Only one did not make the playoffs. Any way you slice it, that is top 25% in the conference or better 70% of the time. Whether a star player carried you there on grit, spunk, skill, or determination is a matter for a different thread. Not a single starter from the 1st team remains. Only Mason and AR are left from that team. A complete rebuild at least once and still top quarter of the NFC. That is staying power.
Unfortunately the same method does not put them over the hump. Only one SB appearance in the same 10 year window. That is the debate. What tweak needs to be made to get there. Trades, drafting, FA? All have their points and advocates. Thus this board exists. And has a reason to be read from now until July.
As I pointed out in my post (the part you highlighted) I'm talking about moving forward, not past years. And you'll get plenty of arguments about how much better those years could have been had Thompson not been so rigid and limited in his approach.
I agree his methods have been proven to not be able to put the team over the top. His tenure here will remembered in the hall of very good but not the hall of great teams. I do think if he and the team could figure out the above average injury thing we may be telling a different story.
7thFloorRA
Cheesehead
I still can't get over the fact that this ****ing guy knows his shut down CB is most likely not playing again this season, his #2 has a very serious injury and he decides he would rather roll over 8 mil in cap space to next year instead of working out a trade for someone. Dammit that ****** me off about TT. He KNEW the problem, had the means to adress it and simply did nothing. He could have packaged a 7th and a bag of ****s and gotten Tramon back. His best is behind him but dont tell me he would have been worse than anyone of the guys on the field this year. His contract was low and would have been prorated as well.
Tramon was available for a 7th? You have an insider in the Packers or Browns FO that told you that? This from November: http://nfltraderumors.co/browns-discussed-trading-cb-tramon-williams/
Yeah, don't see much difference than what we had at the time. I think once you get past 75-80 you might as well save the $6m and roll the dice on your UDFA improving and your 1st and 2nd rounders getting healthy. Especially if you're 4-4 and your offense is in a funk for the past season and a half and the the playoffs are hanging by a thread.
7thFloorRA
Cheesehead
It would have been a conditional pick. They always are. I'm glad you were happy with Hawkins out there playing with the super bowl on the line.
Dantés
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Gunter ended on a really rough note with Dez and Julio, but he was easily better than Williams on the balance of the regular season. And the defense got shellacked from top to bottom. What was a washed up corner from another team going to change? I realize it was a very frustrating way to go out, but there was no easy answer.
Dantés
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Hey guys, just curious if anyone has any strong feelings about people we should keep or fire/cut. I'm thinking specifically of Ted Thompson, Dom Capers, Ladarius Gunter, and Eddie Lacy. I feel like these topics are getting the short shrift.
Please and thank you.
Please and thank you.
Packer Brother
Cheesehead
I've heard people mention TT as a HOF. Does every SB GM make the HOF? What has he done that's been "great" and above and beyond anyone else?
This guy couldn't hold Wolf's jockstrap strap. He's wasted Rodgers prime with his draft and develop philosophy.
This guy couldn't hold Wolf's jockstrap strap. He's wasted Rodgers prime with his draft and develop philosophy.
