Taysom Hill

[GreenNGold_81]

I just wanna say that the ongoing discussion about this backup is hilarious. This is probably the most attention a backup QB has had in some time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Seems like the Saints are willing to pay him 1st round tender money to try and keep him in New Orleans. Some here adamantly expressed that he was in no way worth a 2nd round pick, if that was the case, why didn't the Saints just put a much cheaper 2nd round tender on him?

I'm actually surprised the Saints decided to put the first round tender on Hill as I still don't believe another team would have given up a second rounder to sign him. It seems New Orleans thought differently about that.

Man, I totally nailed my assessment on Hill. *pats self on back.

That doesn't mean Hill will be the Saints backup quarterback in 2020 by any means.

Exactly. I think many have this incorrect perception that a 2nd rd. pick is a super valuable guaranteed "cheap stud". However, if you look at some of the most recent second round picks of the Packers: Josh Jackson, Josh Jones (same year Taysom was signed as an UDFA), Jason Spriggs, Quinton Rollins, Jerel Worthy, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee....it isn't always the case. If I could use a crystal ball and get a player that contributes like Taysom Hill with every second round pick, I would be all over it.

A lot of fans are completely overstating Hill's production because of some highlight reel plays. While the Packers have missed on several second round picks lately I wouldn't be excited about giving up the 62th selection for a player who has accounted for a combined total of 709 yards from scrimmage passing, receiving and rushing in 32 games over the past two seasons.

 

[GleefulGary]

A 2nd round draft pick isn't just a valuable pick, with potential that may or may not be met.

It's also a likely role player at worst on a cheap contract for 4 years. Obviously trading for Hill doesn't give you that. The money matters.

 

[Dantés]

A 2nd round draft pick isn't just a valuable pick, with potential that may or may not be met.

It's also a likely role player at worst on a cheap contract for 4 years. Obviously trading for Hill doesn't give you that. The money matters.

And to add to this, it's the age ~22-25 seasons of a given player, as opposed to the age 30-33.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

That doesn't mean Hill will be the Saints backup quarterback in 2020 by any means.

So let me get this straight... you're saying that the Saints gave him a first-round tender, but he will not be their backup QB (at least) this year? You've said some pretty questionable things in the past, but this may be the funniest.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So let me get this straight... you're saying that the Saints gave him a first-round tender, but he will not be their backup QB (at least) this year?

I'm saying that it's possible that Hill won't be the Saints backup quarterback in 2020. We'll revisit my statement after the early stages of free agency and the draft at the earliest to reevaluate the situation.

 

[Dantés]

So let me get this straight... you're saying that the Saints gave him a first-round tender, but he will not be their backup QB (at least) this year? You've said some pretty questionable things in the past, but this may be the funniest.

That's not questionable at all.

He was NOT their backup QB last year and yet he was still valuable to their offense as a gadget player. So it's perfectly reasonable to think they might want to keep him, but NOT as their backup QB, but as that gadget player.

If they enter the season with just Brees and Hill, then obviously that will demonstrate that they do view him as a true backup. But we aren't there yet.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

That's not questionable at all.

He was NOT their backup QB last year and yet he was still valuable to their offense as a gadget player. So it's perfectly reasonable to think they might want to keep him, but NOT as their backup QB, but as that gadget player.

If they enter the season with just Brees and Hill, then obviously that will demonstrate that they do view him as a true backup. But we aren't there yet.

I guess I just feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Them saying he's capable of being a franchise QB, putting a first-round tag on him, Sean Payton's drooling over him in interviews after the season was done... Like, to me this is obvious. He's at least their backup this year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess I just feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Them saying he's capable of being a franchise QB, putting a first-round tag on him, Sean Payton's drooling over him in interviews after the season was done... Like, to me this is obvious. He's at least their backup this year.

First Hill has to actually sign with the Saints.

As someone who has been here speaking highly of him, I don't think he is an automatic lock at #2 QB, but he will get a chance to earn it. Will the Saints go out and spend big money on a FA QB to be their #2? I doubt it. However, I think they will use a relatively high pick on a QB and he and Hill will be battling to back up Drew in 2020. They will still continue to use Hill in the way that they have been, a player that can come in do a lot of different things. In the meantime, they get another year to assess if he is their QB of the future.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

First Hill has to actually sign with the Saints.

As someone who has been here speaking highly of him, I don't think he is an automatic lock at #2 QB, but he will get a chance to earn it. Will the Saints go out and spend big money on a FA QB to be their #2? I doubt it. However, I think they will use a relatively high pick on a QB and he and Hill will be battling to back up Drew in 2020. They will still continue to use Hill in the way that they have been, a player that can come in do a lot of different things. In the meantime, they get another year to assess if he is their QB of the future.

Right, but if they sign a high pick at QB, they'd certainly put Taysom in first given his knowledge and experience in the system. Hence he'd be their main backup.

 

[Dantés]

I guess I just feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here. Them saying he's capable of being a franchise QB, putting a first-round tag on him, Sean Payton's drooling over him in interviews after the season was done... Like, to me this is obvious. He's at least their backup this year.

Well that makes sense if you take Payton at his word. I don't really pay attention to things that coaches say to the media. I don't think it's in their interest to publicly give their honest opinions.

That doesn't mean that Payton is lying or that he doesn't mean what he says in this instance. but I've seen Hill play enough that I'm skeptical that he really means it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Right, but if they sign a high pick at QB, they'd certainly put Taysom in first given his knowledge and experience in the system. Hence he'd be their main backup.

You would think, but you never know. Maybe a rookie shines in camp and preseason and beats out Hill. The Saints might see this as Bree's last season and really want to firm up their decision who their starter going forward will be. Could it be Hill? Sure, but it could be someone else too. I think that is the question most are speculating about. We all know what Hill does as a non-QB and that makes him valuable, but can he be a starting QB? I do think the draft will force Payton to put his cards on the table and that will tell us a lot about how Sean Payton really views Hill.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Them saying he's capable of being a franchise QB, putting a first-round tag on him, Sean Payton's drooling over him in interviews after the season was done... Like, to me this is obvious. He's at least their backup this year.

The Saints putting a first round tender on Hill at $4.6 million for next season doesn't mean they view him as a franchise quarterback by any means.

In addition you shouldn't put too much stock into coaches talking about players in the media. Remember McCarthy raving about Kizer after the Packers acquired him???

Right, but if they sign a high pick at QB, they'd certainly put Taysom in first given his knowledge and experience in the system. Hence he'd be their main backup.

There's a decent chance either a veteran signed in free agency or a rookie drafted early beats out Hill for the backup job this season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I guess I will be the first person to post it, since this move might back up/confirm a lot of posters belief as to how the Saints organization view Taysom Hill. Or...does it, as you listen to the back half of the video and find out the details of Taysom's new contract.

The Saints 2-year deal with Taysom Hill is for $21 million with $16 million guaranteed. It also includes another $1 million in earnable incentives.

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[Dantés]

I guess I will be the first person to post it, since this move might back up/confirm a lot of posters belief as to how the Saints organization view Taysom Hill. Or...does it, as you listen to the back half of the video

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Both "sides" of the debate scored a point today-- lol.

Jameis signed, but they gave Hill an extension into 2021 that pays him just over 10M/season, I believe.

My conclusion? He's not a starting QB and they don't view him as one, but they do value him a lot as a gadget in their offense.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Both "sides" of the debate scored a point today-- lol.

Jameis signed, but they gave Hill an extension into 2021 that pays him just over 10M/season, I believe.

My conclusion? He's not a starting QB and they don't view him as one, but they do value him a lot as a gadget in their offense.

Agreed on "both sides" score a point. I honestly think that they aren't 100% sure of what they have with Hill or Winston. Winston is at least a known commodity, but as a Buccaneer. He could be much better in the Saints system, the same or worse. Whatever the case, that is a lot of coin for a starter (Brees) and 2 backup QB's, even with Hill being a gadget player until he can prove otherwise. What I do think it says is that the Saints wanted insurance that they won't lose Hill and possibly Winston is the backup plan to the backup plan.

Interesting Stat of the Day:

Winston has completed 10 career passes to Saints players.

Hill only 7.

 

[Dantés]

Agreed on "both sides" score a point. I honestly think that they aren't 100% sure of what they have with Hill or Winston. Winston is at least a known commodity, but as a Buccaneer. He could be much better in the Saints system, the same or worse. Whatever the case, that is a lot of coin for a starter (Brees) and 2 backup QB's, even with Hill being a gadget player until he can prove otherwise. What I do think it says is that the Saints wanted insurance that they won't lose Hill and possibly Winston is the backup plan to the backup plan.

Interesting Stat of the Day:

Winston has completed 10 career passes to Saints players.

Hill only 7.

This is me returning to my priors, but I think they know exactly what that they have in Hill-- an effective offensive weapon that they can sprinkle into their offense. I don't think anyone in the league views him as a legitimate QB now or for the future.

We've been over this ground, but when they needed a QB to start and play entire games, it was Bridgewater and not Hill who played. People tried to explain that away by saying they paid Bridgewater too much not to use him. Well now Bridgewater is gone, and they go pay for a really high end back-up to replace. They have no intention of using Hill as an actual quarterback.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Agreed on "both sides" score a point. I honestly think that they aren't 100% sure of what they have with Hill or Winston. Winston is at least a known commodity, but as a Buccaneer. He could be much better in the Saints system, the same or worse. Whatever the case, that is a lot of coin for a starter (Brees) and 2 backup QB's, even with Hill being a gadget player until he can prove otherwise. What I do think it says is that the Saints wanted insurance that they won't lose Hill and possibly Winston is the backup plan to the backup plan.

Interesting Stat of the Day:

Winston has completed 10 career passes to Saints players.

Hill only 7.

Now THAT’S funny. What are the Saints thinking? Signing Hill to a 2 year $21 mil deal is crazy enough, but now they’re bringing in Jameis Winston. I don’t get it. No matter who ends up being #2 behind Brees, that’s a lotta dough for backups, plural. I like Hill, I liked him when he was in GB. He’s done some damage as a gadget player in the Saints offense. But is that worth $21 mil year? I say no. Anyone know what they’re paying Winston?

 

[Dantés]

Now THAT’S funny. What are the Saints thinking? Signing Hill to a 2 year $21 mil deal is crazy enough, but now they’re bringing in Jameis Winston. I don’t get it. No matter who ends up being #2 behind Brees, that’s a lotta dough for backups, plural. I like Hill, I liked him when he was in GB. He’s done some damage as a gadget player in the Saints offense. But is that worth $21 mil year? I say no. Anyone know what they’re paying Winston?

They're only paying one backup QB. Hill is not a backup QB. He's a gadget offensive weapon.

 

[Heyjoe4]

They're only paying one backup QB. Hill is not a backup QB. He's a gadget offensive weapon.

OK, that’s fine. $21 mil for a gadget player still strikes me as a lot. I don’t follow the Saints that closely, but has Hill produced anywhere near his new deal?

 

[Dantés]

OK, that’s fine. $21 mil for a gadget player still strikes me as a lot. I don’t follow the Saints that closely, but has Hill produced anywhere near his new deal?

No. But it's 21M over two seasons, not per season.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now THAT’S funny. What are the Saints thinking? Signing Hill to a 2 year $21 mil deal is crazy enough, but now they’re bringing in Jameis Winston. I don’t get it. No matter who ends up being #2 behind Brees, that’s a lotta dough for backups, plural. I like Hill, I liked him when he was in GB. He’s done some damage as a gadget player in the Saints offense. But is that worth $21 mil year? I say no. Anyone know what they’re paying Winston?

Hill isn't being paid $21M/year, its a 2 year deal, $16M guaranteed plus $1M in incentives.

He is being paid for what he is, a backup QB, with unknown potential as a starter, that totally excels at being a Swiss Army knife/gadget player.

Find me a similar player that is being paid $10.5M+ per year strictly to be a gadget player and I would agree that the Saints are not paying him a dime for his potential as a starting QB.

 

[Dantés]

Hill isn't being paid $21M/year, its a 2 year deal, $16M guaranteed plus $1M in incentives.

He is being paid for what he is, a backup QB, with unknown potential as a starter, that totally excels at being a Swiss Army knife/gadget player.

Find me a similar player that is being paid $10.5M+ per year strictly to be a gadget player and I would agree that the Saints are not paying him a dime for his potential as a starting QB.

Other side of the coin, find me another player at any position who gets paid 10.5M per year after producing 350 yards from scrimmage per season.

If he's going to pay off, he will need to up the production quite a bit.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Other side of the coin, find me another player at any position who gets paid 10.5M per year after producing 350 yards from scrimmage per season.

If he's going to pay off, he will need to up the production quite a bit.

You are proving my point, he isn't getting paid $10.5M just to sit on the bench as a backup, nor for 350 yards from scrimmage is he? How much will Love make as the Backup to Rodgers? $3M? He won't be paid that because of stats, he will make that for his potential. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Hill is getting paid some money for his unknown potential as a starting QB. If the Saints viewed him as just a gadget player, I think those who said he would be worth around $5M/year would be correct. That isn't what the Saints are paying, him, for 2 years. Even though they could have just kept him for the 1 year deal at that.

Again, I am not professing that he is a franchise QB, nor even a solid starter, nobody is sure of that yet. However, if you look at what the Saints have done with him in the last 3 or so months, he isn't just a gadget player in their eyes.

 

[Dantés]

You are proving my point, he isn't getting paid $10.5M just to sit on the bench as a backup, nor for 350 yards from scrimmage is he? How much will Love make as the Backup to Rodgers? $3M? Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Hill is getting paid some money for his unknown potential as a starting QB. If the Saints viewed him as just a gadget player, I think those who said he would be worth around $5M/year would be correct. That isn't what the Saints are paying, him, for 2 years. Even though they could have just kept him for the 1 year deal at that.

Again, I am not professing that he is a franchise QB, nor even a solid starter. However, if you look at what the Saints have done with him in the last 3 or so months, he isn't just a gadget player in their eyes.

No way. It should have been obvious when they didn't give him any snaps in favor of Bridgewater. Some people still persisted that he really is a quarterback. Now they're signing Winston. They're telling you what they think. And he's going into his age 30 season. He's not some developmental kid. He is who he is.