Should the Packers Consider trading for Isabella

[Dantés]

Being of the opinion that the Packers should have done more to acquire a WR in the draft is fair.

Using the fact that their #1 has been out with an injury, their #2 has been out with an injury, their #3 decided not to play because of COVID, and their #5 has been out with an injury as evidence that you were right that they should have done more to acquire a WR in the draft is not fair.

No one can predict being down 4 of your top 5 at a given position at the same time.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Being of the opinion that the Packers should have done more to acquire a WR in the draft is fair.

Using the fact that their #1 has been out with an injury, their #2 has been out with an injury, their #3 decided not to play because of COVID, and their #5 has been out with an injury as evidence that you were right that they should have done more to acquire a WR in the draft is not fair.

No one can predict being down 4 of your top 5 at a given position at the same time.

This isn't just about the draft, there are other ways to obtain players, even after the season starts.

Inserting both ESB and especially Funchess, who opted out in July, into the discussion and calling them "the Packers #3 and #5" is silly. Both of those guys were lost before the season started, yet nothing was done. Sounds like nothing more than an excuse and actually, it just increases my continued state of questioning what Gute is doing at the position. The injuries to both Adams and Lazard are unfortunate, but nothing we haven't seen in previous years.

All that said, lets go back again to one of your other statements "No one can predict being down 4 of your top 5 at a given position at the same time." That to me is doubling down on the silliness of your first statement of counting Funchess and ESB as 2 of the Packer WR's in 2020. But let that be, there is no need to predict it anymore, the Packers by your standards were down 4 of their top 5 WR's after Lazard's injury on 9/27, so what have they done since?

 

[PikeBadger]

This isn't just about the draft, there are other ways to obtain players, even after the season starts.

Inserting both ESB and especially Funchess, who opted out in July, into the discussion and calling them "the Packers #3 and #5" is silly. Both of those guys were lost before the season started, yet nothing was done. Sounds like nothing more than an excuse and actually, it just increases my continued state of questioning what Gute is doing at the position. The injuries to both Adams and Lazard are unfortunate, but nothing we haven't seen in previous years.

All that said, lets go back again to one of your other statements "No one can predict being down 4 of your top 5 at a given position at the same time." That to me is doubling down on the silliness of your first statement of counting Funchess and ESB as 2 of the Packer WR's in 2020. But let that be, there is no need to predict it anymore, the Packers by your standards were down 4 of their top 5 WR's after Lazard's injury on 9/27, so what have they done since?

Had 2 roster guys step into their roles and contribute to a winning effort, plus add 2 more WR’s to the practice squad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Had 2 roster guys step into their roles and contribute to a winning effort, plus add 2 more WR’s to the practice squad.

Actually, 1 roster guy (Taylor) and 2 Practice Squad (Begelton and Shepherd), which they have cut 1 of them.

I rest my case and will continue to point out the fact that Gute and the Packers have done very little to try and improve the WR group, even after its top 2 players go down with injuries.

 

[PikeBadger]

After I posted, I assumed someone would bring that up. So ok, lets assume Taylor was our #2 and Shepherd was the #3, my concern over the position does not change one bit. Take it one step further, Begelton was our #4 and he was cut the next day.

We have 2 available slots on the practice squad that I suspect management may be looking to fill yet.

 

[Mondio]

Our WR's are not the strongest group in the world and the TE's and RB' are as good as they've ever been in recent memory. Like that one guy said, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

 

[PikeBadger]

Actually, 1 roster guy (Taylor) and 2 Practice Squad (Begelton and Shepherd), which they have cut 1 of them.

I rest my case and will continue to point out the fact that Gute and the Packers have done very little to try and improve the WR group, even after its top 2 players go down with injuries.

Shepherd has played 2 games in a row now. How do you know how hard they are trying???
Edit: I’m curious what Begelton did (or did not) do to get released that quickly. On field or off field?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Our WR's are not the strongest group in the world and the TE's and RB' are as good as they've ever been in recent memory. Like that one guy said, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Don't let your Meat Loaf

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We have 2 available slots on the practice squad that I suspect management may be looking to fill yet.

We have 3 healthy WR's (MVS, Taylor and Shepherd) + Adams on the 53, I expect at least 1 being brought in from elsewhere or *gulp* another one from the PS.

Shepherd has played 2 games in a row now. How do you know how hard they are trying???

If you are satisfied with your #3 WR having 1 catch for 2 yds, I am not going to try to persuade you about the level of talent this WR group currently has.

Edit: I’m curious what Begelton did (or did not) do to get released that quickly. On field or off field?

Thanks for bringing that up, kind of telling when you cut a guy that was your #4 WR in a game, immediately after that game? Not to mention your #5 isn't even known.

While the coaches probably won't come out and say it, my guess is Begelton wasn't prepared or able to play at the level of an NFL WR. For those keeping track he only played on 2 offensive snaps and 2 special teams snaps. At least some day he can tell his grandkids that he was the Green Bay Packers #4 WR in 2020!

 

[Dantés]

This isn't just about the draft, there are other ways to obtain players, even after the season starts.

Inserting both ESB and especially Funchess, who opted out in July, into the discussion and calling them "the Packers #3 and #5" is silly. Both of those guys were lost before the season started, yet nothing was done. Sounds like nothing more than an excuse and actually, it just increases my continued state of questioning what Gute is doing at the position. The injuries to both Adams and Lazard are unfortunate, but nothing we haven't seen in previous years.

All that said, lets go back again to one of your other statements "No one can predict being down 4 of your top 5 at a given position at the same time." That to me is doubling down on the silliness of your first statement of counting Funchess and ESB as 2 of the Packer WR's in 2020. But let that be, there is no need to predict it anymore, the Packers by your standards were down 4 of their top 5 WR's after Lazard's injury on 9/27, so what have they done since?

Here's what's silly--

1) Ignoring the losses of Funchess and ESB simply because they happened before the season. That's completely arbitrary. They still happened after virtually all means of adding significant help to an NFL roster had come and gone (i.e. the draft and free agency).

2) Acting as though there are starting caliber wide receivers out there for the taking in late July and beyond, or assuming that there have been great options available and the Packers are just content to be worse than they otherwise could be. Additionally, criticizing them for not making a trade in the first month of the season, when trades are practically non-existent in the NFL.

3) Continuing to ***** about your draft day disappointments five months after the fact when the Packers' offense is the best in the NFL in basically every significant category.

To answer your question, since 9/27, they've played one game, they scored 30 points, and they won handily. I thought you would have known that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here's what's silly--

1) Ignoring the losses of Funchess and ESB simply because they happened before the season.

Right. I mean once you get into August, lock and load that lineup, because nobody else is out there. Sounded even sillier the second time you wrote it.

2) Acting as though there are starting caliber wide receivers out there for the taking in late July and beyond, or assuming that there have been great options available and the Packers are just content to be worse than they otherwise could be. Additionally, criticizing them for not making a trade in the first month of the season, when trades are practically non-existent in the NFL.

Again, its pretty silly of you to think that in the history of football, no deals are ever made to improve a team before or during the season.

3) Continuing to ***** about your draft day disappointments five months after the fact when the Packers' offense is the best in the NFL in basically every significant category.

This has been an ongoing thing for 2 years, this last draft was just yet another failure to arm this team with decent weapons at WR. But yes, lets just all fall into a neat line and listen to Dantes point of view, otherwise it is considered "*****ing" . I mean why are we here if we can't express an opinion without someone like yourself jumping in and being a condescending *****? Get over yourself dude. If you don't like what I have to say and it really bothers you, put me on ignore.

 

[Dantés]

Right. I mean once you get into August, lock and load that lineup, because nobody else is out there. Sounded even sillier the second time you wrote it.

Again, its pretty silly of you to think that in the history of football, no deals are ever made to improve a team before or during the season.

This has been an ongoing thing for 2 years, this last draft was just yet another failure to arm this team with decent weapons at WR. But yes, lets just all fall into a neat line and listen to Dantes point of view, otherwise it is considered "*****ing" . I mean why are we here if we can't express an opinion without someone like yourself jumping in and being a condescending *****? Get over yourself dude. If you don't like what I have to say and it really bothers you, put me on ignore.

If it's so easy to add a significant weapon at WR in August and September, let's hear about that. Please provide the idea or the precedent that would suggest that you actually know what you're talking about. There are other teams with serious depth issues at WR-- why aren't they making these moves that are supposedly on the table?

If you don't want to be disagreed with, don't post your thoughts on a forum. I'm sorry that you can't handle it when someone points out the weaknesses of your ideas, but it isn't my problem. I'm not going to put you on ignore; I'm going to engage with what you post.

At least I replied to you with substance instead of just asking you not to reply to me any more.

 

[PikeBadger]

If you are satisfied with your #3 WR having 1 catch for 2 yds, I am not going to try to persuade you about the level of talent this WR group currently has.

You referring to Malik Turner? He had 1 catch for 20 yards on 4th down. This was one more catch than Calvin Ridley had on 5 targets.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Packers have been able to overcome a lack of talent at wide receiver because of various reasons over the first four weeks of this season.

MLF has come up with impressive game plans, Rodgers has performed at an elite level, the running backs and tight ends have stepped up and last but not least they have faced terrible secondaries for the most part.

It remains to be seen how that will work out over the rest of the season but in my opinion there's no doubt that the receiving corps lacks talent compared to other units in the league. Gutekunst could have definitely done something about it in the past two years.

As a side note, adding practice squad caliber players most likely won't improve the position moving forward.

 

[Dantés]

The Packers have been able to overcome a lack of talent at wide receiver because of various reasons over the first four weeks of this season.

MLF has come up with impressive game plans, Rodgers has performed at an elite level, the running backs and tight ends have stepped up and last but not least they have faced terrible secondaries for the most part.

It remains to be seen how that will work out over the rest of the season but in my opinion there's no doubt that the receiving corps lacks talent compared to other units in the league. Gutekunst could have definitely done something about it in the past two years.

As a side note, adding practice squad caliber players most likely won't improve the position moving forward.

I would add to that first list that beyond just cooking up impressive game plans, that this system generally doesn't rely on WR talent nearly as heavily as our previous offense did. The basis of McCarthy's offense was to play out of 11 personnel with receivers who could consistently defeat single coverage. For it to be effective, you need WR's who are simply better than the opposition. LaFleur's offense is full of man-beaters that use condensed formations and pre-snap motion to scheme guys open.

But of course you're right that stiffer defensive tests remain and that the receiving corps isn't as talented as it could be. This is in part because they didn't draft a WR, but also in part because of unforeseen circumstances, like Funchess bowing out and injuries.

I still think that the WR corps is better than some people give it credit for. You can easily find good offenses with superior groups, but you can also find good offenses who aren't as talented. When at full strength, for instance, I would take the Packers WR's over the 49ers, the Ravens, and the Colts.

 

[PikeBadger]

The Packers have been able to overcome a lack of talent at wide receiver because of various reasons over the first four weeks of this season.

MLF has come up with impressive game plans, Rodgers has performed at an elite level, the running backs and tight ends have stepped up and last but not least they have faced terrible secondaries for the most part.

It remains to be seen how that will work out over the rest of the season but in my opinion there's no doubt that the receiving corps lacks talent compared to other units in the league. Gutekunst could have definitely done something about it in the past two years.

As a side note, adding practice squad caliber players most likely won't improve the position moving forward.

I have one question. If both Shepherd and Taylor end up playing well and continue making significant positive contributions and improve their game in Lazard’s absence, does that mean they still lack talent?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This is in part because they didn't draft a WR, but also in part because of unforeseen circumstances, like Funchess bowing out and injuries.

The Packers receiving corps definitely has more talent than the unit that played on Sunday but even if they were healthy and Funchess hadn't opted out would have been below average compared to the rest of the league.

I still think that the WR corps is better than some people give it credit for. You can easily find good offenses with superior groups, but you can also find good offenses who aren't as talented. When at full strength, for instance, I would take the Packers WR's over the 49ers, the Ravens, and the Colts.

I know you don't consider PFF a credible source (I wasn't able to find another one quickly though) but here's a list to their rankings of wide receiver groups entering the season with the Packers ranking 24th.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-all-32-units-2020-nfl-season

I agree there are worse units in the league but I wonder if the Packers one is good enough to win a Super Bowl.

I have one question. If both Shepherd and Taylor end up playing well and continue making significant positive contributions and improve their game in Lazard’s absence, does that mean they still lack talent?

We'll talk about it once that happens but I don't consider the chances for it to be decent.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know you don't consider PFF a credible source (I wasn't able to find another one quickly though) but here's a list to their rankings of wide receiver groups entering the season with the Packers ranking 24th.

I've seen similar rankings and if you notice, they were ranked 24th before Funchess opted out of the season. At this point I would say PFF was pretty close.

 

[PikeBadger]

I've seen similar rankings and if you notice, they were ranked 24th before Funchess opted out of the season. At this point I would say PFF was pretty close.

PFF doesn’t take into consideration future player development. Every WR on the roster not named Adams is in their 2nd or 3rd season.

I know some of you do not believe in player development so this is likely to fall on deaf ears. The action or inaction of management leads me to believe what the coaching staff believes to be the value of their players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

PFF doesn’t take into consideration future player development. Every WR on the roster not named Adams is in their 2nd or 3rd season.

I know some of you do not believe in player development so this is likely to fall on deaf ears. The action or inaction of management leads me to believe what the coaching staff believes to be the value of their players.

PFF wasn't the only site that ranked the Packer WR group in the bottom 10. Not sure how anyone could have ranked them anywhere but, at the beginning of this season. Without both Funchess and ESB, they had to have dropped.

On opening day, every WR not named Adams was a 5th round (MVS) or an UDFA (all the rest). MVS is also the only 3rd year player.

Projections on MVS and Lazard were mixed. MVS had a rough year last year, I think he has improved. While Lazard showed promise last year, he still had to come out and prove it. I think he has so far. Beyond those 2 players and Adams, what do we have?

I fully get the concept of player development and actually do believe in it. However, when you are expecting to develop drafted players like J'Mon Moore, Jared Abbredaris, Jeff Janis, DeAngelo Yancey, Malachi Dupre, Trevor Davis, Charles Johnson, Kevin Dorsey, Ty Montgomery and have very little success in the last 10 years with those players, its hard to believe posters are putting that much stock into developing UDFA guys like Shepherd, Taylor and Beggelton.

So tell me what your projections are or you think they should be on UDFA players like Taylor and Shepherd?

 

[Dantés]

The Packers receiving corps definitely has more talent than the unit that played on Sunday but even if they were healthy and Funchess hadn't opted out would have been below average compared to the rest of the league.

I know you don't consider PFF a credible source (I wasn't able to find another one quickly though) but here's a list to their rankings of wide receiver groups entering the season with the Packers ranking 24th.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-all-32-units-2020-nfl-season

I agree there are worse units in the league but I wonder if the Packers one is good enough to win a Super Bowl.

We'll talk about it once that happens but I don't consider the chances for it to be decent.

Yeah, I get it. They aren't as talented at the position as they could be. Depending on what one believes about the draft, they either missed out on adding a talent, or didn't want to all that badly.

My point is that while I understand people's frustrations that they didn't take a WR in the draft, it's invalid to criticize the FO for the current group on the field, as no team could have anticipated losing Funchess to COVID, and then having Adams, Lazard, and St. Brown hurt at the same time. You take WR's number 1, 2, 3, and 5 away from any roster in the league, and what's left would be paltry.

I do consider PFF to be a credible source as far as football opinions go; I just don't consider them to be the final word. Looking through their rankings there, I see a few teams that I would certainly rate below the Packers group-- such as the Chargers, the Browns, the Giants, the Bears, and the Colts.

I think the Packers set themselves up this season to be somewhere in the middle of the league in terms of WR talent, but that many fans carry the perception that they're one of the worst in the NFL largely because of all the hubbub around not taking a receiving in the draft.

Beyond any doubt, the Packers could win a SB with this group at WR. Look back at the WR corps of recent Super Bowl champs and you'll see plenty of groups comparable to the current Green Bay squad, or worse.

What's more, they currently have the best offense in the league, and they haven't been close to full strength at the position. I realize that they will play tougher defenses, but they will also get guys back. And even if tougher defenses means they go from the #1 offense in the league to, like, 5th... you can still win a Super Bowl with that.

When a team plays lesser defenses, you don't discount the results, but rather you have higher expectations. The Packers have blitzed all of them, and are averaging 38 points per game. I'd say that should qualify to meet raised expectations.

 

[McKnowledge]

NO!!!

 

[Dantés]

I would hasten to add that I fully support the idea of adding to the position if the right trade is there. But it's too early in the season for that. NFL traded rarely happen this far away from the deadline. The bad teams have to accept that they're not going to win this year, and become sellers before another team can become a buyer. And the other issue is that it's hard for fans to assess decisions around trades, as we rarely get to know what the options are/were.

 

[GleefulGary]

I would hasten to add that I fully support the idea of adding to the position if the right trade is there. But it's too early in the season for that. NFL traded rarely happen this far away from the deadline. The bad teams have to accept that they're not going to win this year, and become sellers before another team can become a buyer. And the other issue is that it's hard for fans to assess decisions around trades, as we rarely get to know what the options are/were.

If I read it correctly, teams pretty much have to wait a week before they can use any new player added, whether it's a FA or trade, because of Covid. Imagine that will make a difference too.

 

[Dantés]

If I read it correctly, teams pretty much have to wait a week before they can use any new player added, whether it's a FA or trade, because of Covid. Imagine that will make a difference too.

Doubt it.