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Rip on TT and MM in here

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by wischeez, Oct 6, 2008.

  1. ORPackfan

    ORPackfan Cheesehead

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    The heart and soul of this team now plays in the AFC. There is no leadership on this team this year. Good move TT-n-MM :no:
     
  2. scotman

    scotman Cheesehead

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    Ask Dallas without Romo or New England without Brady.
     
  3. retiredgrampa

    retiredgrampa Cheesehead

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    I look forward to McCarthy's presser tomorrow. I keep hoping to hear something encouraging but I'm dead sure that he's not in the least encouraged himself, unless he's gone senile.
     
  4. wizard 87

    wizard 87 Packer Addict

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    he said after the game he is frustrated..that's about it.
     
  5. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    Don't need to, I WATCH this team, and see what's going on. Contrary to what a few think, this team is NOT failing for lack of Favre. Take the Favre glasses off for a minute and REALLY LOOK at this team. Favre did not play defense, nor special teams for the Packers.
     
  6. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    I was born in 1959.. I'm a Packer fan, not by any sort of choice... it's how I was raised. There is no band-wagon... I've lived through it all.. and remember it all very well; going all the way back to the last half of the Lombardi *bow your head* era. I'm the guy who still gets a rush seeing the green-n-gold take the field.. and still gets misty-eyed driving by Lambeau.

    At nearly 50, I don't get near as emotionl as years past.. and mostly, that's been a blessing. This year however, the emotion has been taken over by critical analysis. There are some eerie similarites here, to the Packer organization of the early 70s. As my father (rest his soul) use to rant.. "The damn Finlanders have taken over".. "Hey Toivo.. dis is fun eh" .. "Yah Oino, we gots be bosses of da Packers".. "Look at our fancy team, eh"..

    True football MEN, like, Lombardi / Starr / Wolfe / Favre built decade-long records fielding respected, successful, even awe-inspiring teams. A Hall of Fame aura came to be taken for granted. Then a handful of uncharismatic, uninspiring, arrogant-with-ignorance "men" come in and revel in it all, as if they're a part of it.. when in reality, they're its un-doing... in over their heads, and too head-strong to care.

    I'm not gonna rant by name, specifically.. because (like the early 70s), horrible decision makers aren't sent packing until the damage is done.. profoundly. All I'll point out, is that TT and MM (Murphy) have already set into motion an attitude of, "Aint MY fault" that is permeating the organization.. right down to the players. Winning intangilbles are illusive and delicate.. these "managers" cannot foster, that which they don't even understand. *sigh*

    As for #4 ? .. well.. total incompetence could explain away telling a proven winner, still playing Pro-Bowl caliber football that he's not wanted.. OR, total incompetence could explain away handling the whole thing in a demeaning, circus-like way. I have to ask though.. what explains away doing BOTH ? Forget what keeping Favre off the team does to a team immediatley; as in the obvious difference in how the entire team sees itself (yeah.. like it or not, he made players on both sides of the ball dig a little deeper; a little more often).. consider what the lasting effects might be ? How do other players see themselves in the eyes of "managenent" who take their own petty egos as more important than winning, now ? If that's the regard they show HIM.. who are WE, to them ? Is this the Packer team; the special Packer team we were oh so happy to find ourselves playing for ?

    Nope.. it's the Packers of the 70s.. and the Packers of the next decade will be lucky to be the .500 Packers of the 80s. It's already been set into motion. Toivo and Oyno are immune; no matter how poorly they've done thier jobs.. Ironic that they pretty much fired someone, who was the best ever, at his job.
    The guy has not thrown for over 300 yards all year :lol: He is about done so please no more Favre fairy tales.
    We have issues with defense and special teams not QB. Brett's leadership was big but not the overwhelming factor in this years record...age is also not something that has merit in this debate.
     
  7. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    Jets lost today- Favre had 137 total passing yards. Tell me that would help us.

    Sorry, got you beat. I was born in 1956 and have watched the Pack forever.
     
  8. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    No sorry needed.. and you can't beat a team-mate.. We're in this together.. have been for 50+ years :yes:
     
  9. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    Age, as in experience, as in seen more, know more.. has no place ?

    'course coming from someone who would edit a response into someone else's post, that attitude seems appropriate.

    I'm not looking for the Favre debate, nor to defend my postion re: him. Yes.. he's old and not the main reason. I was using his handling to illustrate the attitude of current management. It's an all too familiar pattern (to someone old enough to have seen it before).

    Do what you will to this post, I'm done here.
     
  10. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    What are you talking about, edit a response in someones post?
     
  11. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    This...


    Those lines are in my post, and I didn't type them.
     
  12. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    Neither did I. You do realize there is more than 1 moderator on this forum?
     
  13. 4rules

    4rules Cheesehead

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    Very well said - thank you.
     
  14. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    Yes.. and as you'll read.. I was responding to the person who edited his response into my post.
     
  15. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    O.k., I thought you figured I did it. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  16. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    No worries.. Like I said.. we're in this together, and it's not a happy time.

    I'm not calling for heads, because it's pointless. These two (Thompson and Murphy) have already done un-reversible damage. Their, "Aint my fault" approach will buy them enough time to finish returning us to the times when a playoff appearance per decade was a success. .. and 8-8 seasons were high-marks.

    Wolfe (and yes Favre) built an aura, and a set of expectations that carried itself into the heads of all the players (and into the heads of the opponents). Players under this regime are displaying this regime's "aura". "Oh well.. we tried".. Did you see the bench today ? It looked like the Bengals. Aside from Driver and Woodson, they're just collecting paychecks now.
     
  17. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    In my opinion, it carries farther down the coaching staff than MM. I think it is Sanders not motivating the defense(and possibly not teaching them) that is destroying them. Stock on special teams is not doing his job either. It pretty much comes down to coaching any way you look at it. No motivation, they don't play good, just sit and collect paychecks.
     
  18. mike bat

    mike bat Cheesehead

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    i agree to a point ... however the main people who caused this is TT and MM ... MM is the coach ,, if his people cant get this team together then he needs to get after them ... he needs to be a leader .. same gos with TT ... lack of leadership ,, lack of trust ,, lack of respect this is the problem in green bay ... i do believe TT and mm allowed all the negatives listed in the locker room .. and not olny allowed it ,, but rather created problems .. i do believe they lost the respect of the vet players ,, the team leaders ... after the whole saga played out you know what these vets are thinking ... what i watched this season was a team with out a leader or a purpose ... leaders dont tell veteren players the train has left the station ... leaders get the play makers on the field ... leaders are trusted by the players ... leaders make good choices ,, ones that lead there team to victory ... all arrows point to TT and MM ... there lack of leadership is what ran our 13-3 packers team to what it is today ... ya people can blame injury ,, we have had injurys .. but lets face it ,, we cant win a close game to save our lives ... we have no leader out there ... IMO MM is soft as a cookie ... he just wants to make excuse after excuse ... i just wanna hear what they have to say next ... al harris thinks hes out next ,, how can we have a team if there is no trust between players and managment .. i just see the team getting younger and younger ... players that were great last season just seem ok this one .. were are the leaders ,, whos responsabe ??? MM will direct the attention everywhere else ... TT is hiding somewhere he doesnt have anything to say ... so who ,, or where is the leader .. they certinly arent in the packers managment .... ok i think i got it all out ,, when you read this please uderstand my anger stems from frustration ... i want this team to do well ... i said it before ,, ill be a packers fan to the bloody end ...
     
  19. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    TT: Here is a list of what bothers me about him:

    1) Refuses to sign free-agents
    I don't understand the purpose of having the most cap room in the NFL and not signing anybody of significance. The Packers obviously cannot develop offensive linemen. Tauscher and Clifton anchor the line and everybody else is garbage. Green Bay had the best offensive line in football for 5 years in a row. Sign some damn veterans.

    2) Overvalues draft picks
    STOP trading down in the draft in order to acquire more picks. You already have the youngest team in the team. This offseason, Albert Haynsworth and Julius Peppers will both be free-agents who will more than likely be franchise tagged. Get rid of some draft picks and sign either one of these players. Add a proven veteran for once.

    3) The 2008 Draft
    Jordy Nelson? I like him... he's a nice player... good insurance for James Jones.. BUT WHY?? The Packers had more glaring needs than a fifth receiver/mediocre kick returner. Brian Brohm was a head-scratcher too. Yes, he was highly rated, but HE WASN'T A NEED.

    4) Justin Harrell
    No need to say anymore. You draft an injured DT who can't play the run #16 overall.

    MM: What bothers me

    1) Green Bay is NOT a shotgun team
    I cannot tell you the number of times the Packers have run shotgun when there was no need to run shotgun. Stop using shotgun so much and go back to play action and screen passes. The problem with shotgun is that everybody on the field knows you are going to pass. This just makes it easier for defensive linemen to fly past our horrible O-Line.

    2) AJ Hawk covering anybody
    He cannot cover a TE. He cannot cover a RB. STOP PUTTING HIM IN COVERAGE.

    3) Pass rush
    You have to realize that Aaron Kampman is the only player on the team who can rush the passer. Tell your D-Coordinator to blitz or something because anybody can complete a pass given 10 seconds in the pocket
     
  20. scotman

    scotman Cheesehead

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    I don't believe that for a second. Rodgers does just fine, now if someone will block for him it would be nice, the offensive line is like swiss cheese. Too many holes.
    The problem with this team right now goes beyond Favre being here. It comes down to giving great field position to the opposing team, and us having to start deep in our own territory,the defensive line could not stop my grandmother from running through them, the new corners are having a hard time covering, the linebackers are not all that great. So from that, I don't see how a change of Quarterback makes a big difference.[/quote]
    Ask Dallas without Romo or New England without Brady.[/quote]

    Don't need to, I WATCH this team, and see what's going on. Contrary to what a few think, this team is NOT failing for lack of Favre. Take the Favre glasses off for a minute and REALLY LOOK at this team. Favre did not play defense, nor special teams for the Packers.[/quote]

    Well it so happens I watch this team too. I will admit that this team has problems on both sides of the ball. To not admit that would be as silly as not seeing that letting our best player go was a very dumb move.
     
  21. 4rules

    4rules Cheesehead

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    The good news: now the Lombardi/McCarthy comparisons will end.
     
  22. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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    Favre did NOT play defense, special teams, or offensive line. Rodgers is doing just fine at QB.
     
  23. wischeez

    wischeez Cheesehead

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  24. Brett_Henderson

    Brett_Henderson Cheesehead

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    28 playoff interceptions ?

    Wellll.. if you take me to 22 playoff games amassing those interceptions ( barely more than 1 per playoff game).. Throw 39 TDs doing it.. win more than 1/2 of those playoff games.. I'll take it :D
     
  25. thorgood

    thorgood Cheesehead

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    can tt and mm be shamed into managing a team properly?
     

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