Packer Draft Position on the Rise.....

[Sunshinepacker]

So lets say you take thompson at 9...by 32 and 42 pick most your top 5 Edge and OL guys are gone. FA is a difficult place to find Edge/OT its top dollar time. Seems to me you get more value out of drafting best Edge guy at 9 and best OL at 32, then move on to BPA at WR and Safety. plus FA has more value at Safety position and WR. Im not saying your going to find a blue chip Safety in FA...but maybe a upgrade wouldnt be that difficult....considering whats there now.

Thompson has ridiculous range and coverage skills for a safety, getting the next Earl Thomas at 9 is very valuable. Yeah, edge rushers are great too but Thompson might be the kind of safety that changes an entire defense.

 

[Mondio]

I honestly don't care what position it is, as long as they end up as ready from the get go, and by year 3-4 they're mentioned as one of the best young players at their respective positions. Give me a Right Tackle, A DT, and edge guy a game changing do it all ILB for Pettine to work with, the next earl Thomas, another Jaire Alexander to work with, etc. All guys i could live with.

I suppose my opinion could change depending on what direction it seems this team is going with when they make their new coaching selection and what coordinators fill in.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I honestly don't care what position it is, as long as they end up as ready from the get go, and by year 3-4 they're mentioned as one of the best young players at their respective positions. Give me a Right Tackle, A DT, and edge guy a game changing do it all ILB for Pettine to work with, the next earl Thomas, another Jaire Alexander to work with, etc. All guys i could live with.

I suppose my opinion could change depending on what direction it seems this team is going with when they make their new coaching selection and what coordinators fill in.

This looks like a pretty solid shopping list for the Pack. Another JE would be nice because it doesn’t look like KK is going to work out. The injury bug followed him through college and into the pros. It never makes me feel any better when it’s pointed out we could have had TJ Watt....... If Josh Jackson takes a big second year step, that could help. The only other thing I’d add is a RG to go with that RT, and as always, depth along the O line.

 

[Poppa San]

The only other thing I’d add is a RG to go with that RT, and as always, depth along the O line.

An overlooked concern so far with the coaching change. The scheme MM ran for his OL allowed later round talent like Sitton, Lang, Bakh, Tretter, Taylor, et al to be competent if not thrive. The next regime may install a scheme that requires a Jerruh Jones level of OL investment to work. Think Sherrod, Spriggs, Bulaga value of pick for a few years.

 

[sschind]

Secretly and quietly gives you an "agree" without using the word "tank".

Just when I thought I had you figured out. Last post I read from you you said you would be rooting for the win. Get you *** off the fence and pick. Wins or picks?

 

[sschind]

I honestly don't care what position it is, as long as they end up as ready from the get go, and by year 3-4 they're mentioned as one of the best young players at their respective positions. Give me a Right Tackle, A DT, and edge guy a game changing do it all ILB for Pettine to work with, the next earl Thomas, another Jaire Alexander to work with, etc. All guys i could live with.

I suppose my opinion could change depending on what direction it seems this team is going with when they make their new coaching selection and what coordinators fill in.

Exactly, it's not as if edge rusher is our only need. Picking in the top 10 I think any player you pick should be able to be in the conversation for rookie of the year or at least one of the best rookies at his position (if it an OL for example) in his first year. There are a lot of positions that the Packers could use a player like that at.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Just when I thought I had you figured out. Last post I read from you you said you would be rooting for the win. Get you *** off the fence and pick. Wins or picks?

I think you know where I stand. At this point I am thinking about the draft and improving for 2019 and can't help but think about 1988 when we beat the Cardinals in the final game, giving Dallas the #1 Pick and Troy Aikman. The Packers picked Tony Mandarich with the #2 pick.

 

[Dantés]

An overlooked concern so far with the coaching change. The scheme MM ran for his OL allowed later round talent like Sitton, Lang, Bakh, Tretter, Taylor, et al to be competent if not thrive. The next regime may install a scheme that requires a Jerruh Jones level of OL investment to work. Think Sherrod, Spriggs, Bulaga value of pick for a few years.

I disagree with this take. McCarthy's offense made life harder for OL, not easier. They received very little help and typically had to protect longer than most lines. Their success over the years is a testament to Thompson's drafting and Campen's development.

 

[GleefulGary]

If you have a scheme that Bakh, Linsley, Lang, Tretter, Sitton, Bulaga, etc don't work in...then you got a really crappy scheme.

 

[Dantés]

I have not dug into this draft class at all, but here are some of the names from the top half of Brugler's first mock that suit Green Bay's biggest needs (ED, S, OT, DL). The Packers have put themselves into position to get at least one top 16 player, and perhaps higher if the season ends poorly.

Edge:

• Joey Bose, Ohio State, Pick #1
• Rashan Gary, Michigan, #3
• Josh Allen, Kentucky, #9
• Jachai Polite, Florida, #10 (Packers' pick)
• Clelin Ferrell, Clemson, #14
• Montez Sweat, Miss. State, #16

Safety:

• Deionte Thompson, Alabama, #17 (I'm cheating here to include him, but for the moment he seems to be the clear cut top safety)

Offensive Tackle:

• Jonah Williams, Alabama, #4
• Greg Little, Miss. State, #11

Interior Defensive Line:

• Quinnen Williams, Alabama, #2
• Ed Oliver, Houston, #8
• Jeffery Simmons, Miss. State, #15

It's super early yet, but 11 of the top 16 prospects in Brugler's mock really fit some big needs of the Packers, so that's encouraging.

If you look at his mid season top 32 (from October) instead of his mock draft, Deionte Thompson is much higher (#6), Raekwon Davis, iDL, Alabama is in (#15), and Jonah Williams (#23) is much lower.

 

[Wildcatk23]

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This guy is a superstar in the making . Can also drop back into coverage .

 

[Croak]

You mean the 10 games with 30 receptions for 377 yards Jared Cook? Yeah we could really use that one TD he had. Or do you just remember his 3 game playoff stats. 18/229 - 2TD.
I'll take Graham with his 44 receptions for 536 yards in 12 games so far.

This year Cook has 54 receptions for 709 yards, averaging 13.1 yards per reception. He has 6 touchdowns. That's pretty darn good for a tight end. Perhaps it wasn't the player but the plays?

 

[Mondio]

This year Cook has 54 receptions for 709 yards, averaging 13.1 yards per reception. He has 6 touchdowns. That's pretty darn good for a tight end. Perhaps it wasn't the player but the plays?

probably more to do with this is year 2 in Oakland and despite what fans think, it still takes time to work together as team, tandem QB/pass catcher etc. Just like I expect Graham to be better with GB next year too, even though they're all likely to be on a learning curve for a "new" offense, the more they work together, the better they'll be overall.

Add in the fact that Cook wasn't even playing for half the year with us, so no matter the plays called, he wasn't out there to even run them. A couple weeks to get into the offense and game shape and he barely played a third of a season for us.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Might have to change this thread to "Packer Draft Position on the Rise Decline."

Although the win was "nice" yesterday, we "missed" a gold opportunity to move up in the draft (#8) with many of the teams ahead of us winning. With the win, the Packers slid down to #12.

Had the Packers lost:

1. Raiders (3-10): (@Bengals, Broncos, @Chiefs)
2. 49'ers (3-10): (Seahawks, Bears, @Rams)
   
3. Cardinals (3-10): (@Falcons, Rams, @ Seahawks)
   
4. Jets (4-9): (Texans, Packers, @Patriots)
   
5. Falcons (4-9): (Cards, @Panthers, @Bills)
   
6. Jaguars (4-9): (Skins, @Phins, @Texans)
   
7. Bills (4-9): (Lions, @Pats, Phins)
   
8. Packers (4-8-1): (@Bears, @Jets, Lions) * Had we lost
   
9. Giants (5-8): (Titans, @Colts, Cowboys)
   
10. Lions (5-8): (@Bills, Vikes, @Pack)
11. Bengals (5-8): (Raiders, @Browns, @ Steelers)
12. Browns (5-7-1): (@Broncos, Bengals, @Ravens)

 

[Mondio]

I'd still rather go into next year on a 4 game win streak than a 4 game losing skid. I've seen enough high draft picks fail and enough later picks do well to want to watch my team lose. never stop trying to win, or you'll become a loser.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd still rather go into next year on a 4 game win streak than a 4 game losing skid. I've seen enough high draft picks fail and enough later picks do well to want to watch my team lose. never stop trying to win, or you'll become a loser.

Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just delivering the potential "downside" of winning or if the Packers had lost, the potential "upside of losing". Many have said that it has been hard for the Packers to remain competitive when having to pick late in every round, due to past success. This year, they may have the opportunity to reverse that.

 

[Mondio]

More so than picking late has been losing guys like Shields, Collins, Finley. Injury plagued years to Matthews and Perry. All but Finley had big financial investments recently made that made it difficult to cut losses or replace.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'd still rather go into next year on a 4 game win streak than a 4 game losing skid. I've seen enough high draft picks fail and enough later picks do well to want to watch my team lose. never stop trying to win, or you'll become a loser.

Bah. I almost always agree with you, but you're wrong here.

The players don't have to try to lose. That would be bad. But ya know, put a couple guys on IR, play young guys more for the experience, and acquire talent.

 

[sschind]

Might have to change this thread to "Packer Draft Position on the Rise Decline."

Although the win was "nice" yesterday, we "missed" a gold opportunity to move up in the draft (#8) with many of the teams ahead of us winning. With the win, the Packers slid down to #12.

Had the Packers lost:

1. Raiders (3-10): (@Bengals, Broncos, @Chiefs)
2. 49'ers (3-10): (Seahawks, Bears, @Rams)
   
3. Cardinals (3-10): (@Falcons, Rams, @ Seahawks)
   
4. Jets (4-9): (Texans, Packers, @Patriots)
   
5. Falcons (4-9): (Cards, @Panthers, @Bills)
   
6. Jaguars (4-9): (Skins, @Phins, @Texans)
   
7. Bills (4-9): (Lions, @Pats, Phins)
   
8. Packers (4-8-1): (@Bears, @Jets, Lions) * Had we lost
   
9. Giants (5-8): (Titans, @Colts, Cowboys)
   
10. Lions (5-8): (@Bills, Vikes, @Pack)
11. Bengals (5-8): (Raiders, @Browns, @ Steelers)
12. Browns (5-7-1): (@Broncos, Bengals, @Ravens)

I know you are pissed Poker but can you at least pretend to be happy

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know you are pissed Poker but can you at least pretend to be happy

LOL.....hey, I have posted a few times in the "making the playoffs" thread too. I enjoyed the win yesterday, but will fully admit was disappointed on losing traction in the draft order. If this team looked better all season and I thought they would have a legit chance at doing something in the playoffs....IF.....they even make the playoffs, the wins would mean more to me.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

More so than picking late has been losing guys like Shields, Collins, Finley. Injury plagued years to Matthews and Perry. All but Finley had big financial investments recently made that made it difficult to cut losses or replace.

All teams lose guys like the Packers have and get cap strapped by guys they probably shouldn't have, its not just a Packer thing. But with success, comes the NFL parity balance of picking later in each round of the draft. Cellar dwellers finally become winners (See Rams and Bears). The Packers last top 10 pick was....BJ Raji (#9) in 2009. I am smart enough to know that you will say "AJ Hawk (5), Jamal Reynolds (10), Terrell Buckley (5), Tony Madarich (2) guarantee you diddly". You are right, but wins at the end of a meaningless season do exactly what? I think over the course of history, the odds of picking a good player improves the higher you pick in each round. If the Packers are going to lose 2 spots, instead of picking up 2 spots in the draft each week by winning a game, at this point I am fine with better draft position.

Again, I am not advocating losing on purpose, but I would rather see the Packers get a lot of playing time in for younger guys, with an eye on the future and if our draft position improves because of it, even better.

But, Maybe we get lucky and find the next Aaron Donald @13.

 

[Mondio]

I didn't say it was a Packer thing, I said I think it was a bigger reason than picking later. Anyway, wins aren't meaningless. If we win, it means a lot of young players are getting better. It means guys aren't playing so carelessly. it means guys are playing with energy. Some things we've been missing. I'd these guys play hard and in the process of doing that win, and carry that success with them to the start of the offseason than have them wallow around because we didn't make the playoffs and think that getting better starts "next year". it doesn't. it starts now.

Simply getting MVS and EQ on the same page with Rodgers is reason enough to get as many first downs and opportunities for those guys to get better NOW. it only makes us better next season. and this team, if they do those things, is good enough to beat everyone on their remaining schedule. A little extra hope and confidence in young players can multiply over the offseason and still leave them with a taste in their mouths for more because we did just fall short of the playoffs.

Imo that is a far better place to impove from, than going into games knowing you're not putting it out there to win. Skipping opportunities to get better can become a habit. Losing hope and confidence can also multiply itself in the offseason. If this team plays hard and to ability, they'll win a few more. i'll take it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I have never said that the Packers should intentionally try to lose, but once a team is eliminated from the playoffs, I don't view the games as much different than preseason games. Play the guys who will be around next year and need the real game experience. Protect guys like Rodgers from an injury that might take a year to recover from.

If you feel wins in December translate to wins the following September, so be it.

A meaningless win for me would be one that reduces your draft position, you don't play guys that need the experience or one of your major players goes down with a bad injury.

 

[elcid]

I agree with both your views. Last week, with only a slim chance of still getting in the playoffs, I was firmly on the top 10 draft pick train and hoping that we would play young and backup players. Now, with a 35% chance of getting in the playoffs by winning out according to the NY times playoff calculator, I think we still should give it our all. At least for the Bears game. The Jets and Lions games are doable, and we will basically know if we are in or out come Sunday when we play the supposedly "New Kings of the North." Let's try to win out against them, making us their boogie team for next year regardless. If we lose, then we will still have 2 games to create a better chance at a higher draft pick in May.

 

[swhitset]

I agree with both your views. Last week, with only a slim chance of still getting in the playoffs, I was firmly on the top 10 draft pick train and hoping that we would play young and backup players. Now, with a 35% chance of getting in the playoffs by winning out according to the NY times playoff calculator, I think we still should give it our all. At least for the Bears game. The Jets and Lions games are doable, and we will basically know if we are in or out come Sunday when we play the supposedly "New Kings of the North." Let's try to win out against them, making us their boogie team for next year regardless. If we lose, then we will still have 2 games to create a better chance at a higher draft pick in May.

I’ll agree with trying to beat the Bears part... The all time head to head record against the bears still matters to a lot of people. The Packers pulled ahead in that contest and now need to continue to extend the lead... not fall back towards being even.