Overall Graft Grades, PF "experts"

[gopkrs]

You don't agree that using hindsight it was a mistake to let Hayward and Hyde walk away in free agency???

It's true Randall played better in Cleveland but he was far from being elite with the Browns.

Just my opinion but you use the word "elite" too much. There is such a thing as just a good football player. (Not saying that is Randall yet)

 

[Mondio]

As I've mentioned repeatedly in the past at the time Thompson had to make the decision letting both Hayward and Hyde walk away seemed to be correct moves. Unfortunately using hindsight they weren't though.

well no, but had we kept them and they were part of the injuries that we had a gluttony of, we would have been no better and worse off financially too. Keeping them wouldn't have been the correct move under that scenario either. So the reason things didn't work weren't so much because of bad decisions, just ones that didn't work. It happens. At this point if someone Gute or Ted if he were here Sign Jones to a multi year extension to play safety, that i'd hold against them for a long time.

But Hayward and Hyde weren't dumb decisions, they were tough ones and probably the correct ones with the information at the time. I'm not holding that against anybody, it's life. I call those decisions that didn't work, but not "wrong" ones. Semantics maybe, but I would have considered signing Datone to a big contract or even anything more than a minimum type when his was up as "wrong" because he seemed to have motivation issues. Had all the physical talent, but nothing upstairs or in his heart to make it work. Maybe it's just a distinction I make.

 

[HardRightEdge]

But Hayward and Hyde weren't dumb decisions, they were tough ones and probably the correct ones with the information at the time.

I do believe that is fair. There was not abundant cap to sign these guys. It's necessary to identify the chicken and the egg. These guys were gone in FA before it was even known who the replacements might even be. The decisions to let these guys go were primarily monetary. Thompson ended up reaching for their replacments.

Signing Perry to that extension prior to 2017, to take one scenario, where only a part of that money would have been needed to retain Hyde, also looked like a decision in the range of reasonableness given 2016 looked like he turned the injury corner.

But all this misses the larger point. If, over the course of more than a decade, all we can point to only two drafted players "getting away" in FA by signing decent second contracts elsewhere (or even the ones who were simply cut), how should we think that ranks across the league in "lost opportunities"? Awfully darn low I would say.

 

[Pugger]

I hope you guys won't think I'm making excuses for Thompson but knowing now his health was ailing I wonder if that had an effect on his draft performances. If we want to blame anyone we can finger Murphy for not relieving TT of his duties earlier. Let's all hope these changes will result in more success on the field.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just my opinion but you use the word "elite" too much. There is such a thing as just a good football player. (Not saying that is Randall yet)

Agreed, but Amish was acting as if Randall played at an elite level in Cleveland.

So the reason things didn't work weren't so much because of bad decisions, just ones that didn't work. It happens.

But Hayward and Hyde weren't dumb decisions, they were tough ones and probably the correct ones with the information at the time. I'm not holding that against anybody, it's life. I call those decisions that didn't work, but not "wrong" ones.

I guess that's a fair take.

 

[AmishMafia]

Agreed, but Amish was acting as if Randall played at an elite level in Cleveland.

I never said or implied he was elite.

And randall played much better in Cleveland than in GB.

You are so determined to believe what you want to believe it makes any discussion frustrating.

 

[Mondio]

I do believe that is fair. There was not abundant cap to sign these guys. It's necessary to identify the chicken and the egg. These guys were gone in FA before it was even known who the replacements might even be. The decisions to let these guys go were primarily monetary. Thompson ended up reaching for their replacments.

Signing Perry to that extension prior to 2017, to take one scenario, where only a part of that money would have been needed to retain Hyde, also looked like a decision in the range of reasonableness given 2016 looked like he turned the injury corner.

But all this misses the larger point. If, over the course of more than a decade, all we can point to only two drafted players "getting away" in FA by signing decent second contracts elsewhere (or even the ones who were simply cut), how should we think that ranks across the league in "lost opportunities"? Awfully darn low I would say.

I wonder what our "keep" ratio of FA's was compared to the rest of the or how many did we get before they even became FA's? Our drafts at the end couldn't replace what was happening and they weren't very good overall. Definitely not good enough for team that doesn't bring in new FA's very often. But over the course of a decade + there weren't a lot of positions needing a FA signing from some other team either.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I wonder what our "keep" ratio of FA's was compared to the rest of the or how many did we get before they even became FA's? Our drafts at the end couldn't replace what was happening and they weren't very good overall. Definitely not good enough for team that doesn't bring in new FA's very often. But over the course of a decade + there weren't a lot of positions needing a FA signing from some other team either.

Since the instances of free agents who we might call guys who got away in FA over the last decade are so few, I think the first question is answered. All you have to do is look at the players who move around in the league in any one season to get an idea. Here's one list as of April 23 for this past offseason:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...nfl-free-agency-key-trades-freeagent-signings

There's always a position that can be upgraded with a FA, a trade, another high pick if the capital is available. Think about the Packer RB and ILB positions in particualar over the last decade.

Of course there are the other ways a team loses players. Career ending injuries (Collins, Finley, Johnathan Franklin), retirement (Raji), trade (not a Thompson thing), or guys who never fully recoverd from injury to stay on track. A couple guys in this category who stick in my mind, given the ILB struggles over the years, were Desmond Bishop (hamstring surgery) and Sam Barrington (ankle), good players who suffered serious injuries, never fully recovered, released, kicked around the league for a couple of years, and were then out of the league. There are lots of guys who fall in this category, playing then injured than forgotten, with not enough excess physical talent to survive when it is diminished by injury.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I never said or implied he was elite.

You are so determined to believe what you want to believe it makes any discussion frustrating.

Elite, good, much better... It's all about semantics. You implied that Randall didn't perform up to his potential in Green Bay because of Capers. While there's some truth to it Thompson drafting him to play out of position was a reason for it as well.

But over the course of a decade + there weren't a lot of positions needing a FA signing from some other team either.

The Packers had several positions in need of a veteran upgrade over the past few seasons of Thompson's era. Yet TT choose to reach for prospects at those positions.

There's always a position that can be upgraded with a FA, a trade, another high pick if the capital is available. Think about the Packer RB and ILB positions in particualar over the last decade.

I want to add safety after Collins went down and cornerback when it became obvious Randall and Rollins don't get it done to the list as well.

A couple guys in this category who stick in my mind, given the ILB struggles over the years, were Desmond Bishop (hamstring surgery) and Sam Barrington (ankle), good players who suffered serious injuries, never fully recovered, released, kicked around the league for a couple of years, and were then out of the league.

Bishop was a very good player but Barrington never performed at a decent level in the first place.

 

[gopkrs]

Elite, good, much better is not just semantics. It is an evaluation.