1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Monday morning stats

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    979
    Ratings:
    +86
    Ran through the NFL stats this morning.

    Only two teams have allowed more points than the Packers...the Titans(63) and the Texans(67). (Packers at 60).

    The Packers are ranked 27th defensively....15th offensively.

    The problem is not the offense.

    It is the defense.

    By the way, we keep hearing about the Packers being "young".

    Defensively, Hawk is the only starting rookie. Poppinga had some playing time last year.

    Which other of these players is "young"?

    Kampman, KGB, Pickett, Jenkins, Barnett, Harris, Collins(2nd year starting) Manuel, Woodson?

    They are also playing in the same system as last year, excepting the last two who are veterans.

    These are also among the highest paid players on the team.
     
  2. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,486
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would have to believe that much of the defenses poor ranking has to do with the offense going 3 and out (hey, the do something consistently) and literall abandoning our defense for much of the game.

    Does anyone have the time of possession stat for the Packers' offense these last two games? My guess is that the defense was on the field damn near 40 minutes each....far too long to be effective...and certainly long enough for even middling performing offenses to rack up some numbers.

    On that note......it looks like AJ Hawk has really begun to assert himself...made a lot of nice plays yesterday and was shedding blocks very well.
     
  3. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,067
    Ratings:
    +0
    The problem is not Ofense or defense, the problem is who runs the ofense and the defense it is clear that we got worse in coaching, other teams adjust and we cant do that..

    Our playcalling is pityfull, we need to have coaches that look and act as coaches... but that is too much to ask considering that we have a HC that looks and acts more like a bartender and a GM that keeps hiding..

    If it were to be my call I will take the cost of my mistakes fire MM and Co. take this season as a lost one AND GET A REAL COACH AND USE THE REST OF THE SEASON AS A LOOOOONG PRE SEASON so next year we will be in a much better shape.

    But it is not my call...
     
  4. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6
    thank god
     
  5. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,405
    Ratings:
    +2
    And who would you hire????

    I can't believe how many of you are ready to abandon ship after two games. Why is it you are able to allow Hawk. Popinga, and other "young" players to make mistakes, write them off as inexperience that will get better in time but the coaches aren't allowed that same luxury? Don't you think it takes time to settle in as a HC, OC, or DC? Remember, they all only have two games under their belt too.

    I listened to the after game show on my way home from the game yesterday, Aaron Kampman was on and had nothing but praise for MM and staff. He wasn't just giving lip service either. He pointed out how well MM communicates to the players and how much everyone buys into his system. Give him time and I think he will prove his worth.

    Remember, Holmgren lost his first two games, should we have fired him then too?

    Losers state the obvious problem and make a point to tell all. Winners not only decipher the problem but also have a solution to the problem. So which are you? (comment made to all in general, not just poster)
     
  6. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,991
    Ratings:
    +0
    2nd year players and 1st year starters are young no matter what you look at. Poppinga is young. Hawk is young. Collins is young. The players behind them are young.

    On offense you have. Jennings, Colledge, Moll, and Spitz all as rookies seeing playing time. Martin lined up as the 4th WR for the 1st 2 games and he's young. Rayner and Ryan are 1st year NFL players. They are young.

    This is a very young team. Half the roster has 1 or less NFL experience.
     
  7. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6

    great post...especially the part about buying into the system. this is a young inexperienced team with a young newby staff. they will take time to form and ive seen improvement from week 1 to week 2. how is that a bad thing for this young team.

    getting people to believe in you and your system is one of the most important parts of NFL coaching. everything falls in line after that. the fact that after 2 games (especially 2 loses) he still has the teams faith... makes me think he has what it takes to succeed in the long run. If we keep improving week to week... thats all we should ask.
     
  8. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    317
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree that the coaching staff deserves at least one year to see if they improve. However, sometimes you just get the feeling that your coach isn't a good fit. Therefore, I say give them a year, but by no means would I feel pulling the cord at the end of the season if you feel like the coaches are in over their head. I think Ray Rhodes comes to mind.
     
  9. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,405
    Ratings:
    +2

    Brett Favre went to management after 6 games and told them there were MAJOR problems in the clubhouse with Rhodes at the helm. He never had the respect or buy-in from the players (at least the majority) He had no discipline either in his practices or game plans. He also had horrible game management at the end of the season (Carolina comes to mind) Wolf saw this and knew he had made a huge mistake. He waited till the end of the season to make the move.

    When you HOF comes to you and tells you there is a problem...guess what? you have a problem. Rhodes was more of a buddy with the defense than anything else (he would play cards with the players in the locker room and then be late for practice to "finish up" a game. (inside sources)

    There is a huge difference between MM and RR. MM has the players respect...RR never did.
     
  10. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    Net,

    IMO you nailed it on the head but then went in the wrong direction after identifying the problem.

    The veterans on this team need to step it up and play football. It is not the young guys failing here it is the guys that are supposed to be picking it up for the rookies and young players.

    Ten dropped passes. Is this the HC's fault? Dropped passes are drive killers and momentum swingers.

    On offense Favre and Driver are doing their parts and Wells did a great job on that bus of a middle guard for the Saints. That guy just killed the team they played the week before.

    Taush and Clifton have got to do much better and Bubba and the other WR's have got to hold onto the football.

    Harris, Woodson, Barnett, Manuel, Collins, have all got to get much more consistant. It's not like they are confused out there and unsure of what they are supposed to do in certain situations. They just aren't getting it done.

    If that were the case I would agree there is a coaching problem but what you here from them is that they got out of position, were there, (twice with Collins this week) and just didn't make the play, or miscommunicated with the other guys.

    The only youn guys on "D" are Hawk, Poppy and Collins. The rest are veterans and only Kampman is out there doing the job play after play.
     
  11. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,856
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree that the defense is more of a problem than the offense, especially considering that, as net points out, they are really not that young of a unit. They've been a big disappointment so far. Hopefully Collins and Poppinga will improve. Hawk is looking a lot better already.
     
  12. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6
    warhawk... i definetly agree with you about scott wells.... he played an awesome game and i think he might be the strongest link on the oline right now.
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,835
    Ratings:
    +3,481
    28:56 time of possesion average for the Packers O

    31:05 for the D
     
  14. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    979
    Ratings:
    +86
    My original point was there's lots of veterans on the defense making big bread. You should expect more from veterans. Three out of 11 second year players or younger means there's 8 with more than 2 year's experience.

    If they can't score on you they can't beat you.
     
  15. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,454
    Ratings:
    +6
    agreed.... a lot of the blame for the secondary is being put on schottenheimer. and i dont totally disagree.. i was upset to see him back in GB.

    but with charles woodson and al harris as starting corners... they gotta take the blame. they both have enough accolades and experience back there that the Dback coach shouldnt take all the blame. these guys need to step it up and work cohesively with the young safeties to get it going.

    and when i say young safeties i mean collins and culver... manuel isnt looking great.
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,835
    Ratings:
    +3,481
    I fully understand your point net...

    But can those vets make up for the younger players mistakes..
     
  17. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    3,991
    Ratings:
    +0
    After watching Sunday it might work vice versa. Most of the mistakes and you don't need to include the two turnovers came from vetern players. I thought some of the younger guys like Moll, Colledge, Jennings, and Hawk played fairly well.
     
  18. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    Hawk, I love watching that man bring someone down. Such intensity!!
     
  19. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    17,835
    Ratings:
    +3,481
    He did look like he was holding his own on most plays agaisnt the o-l man..

    Specially loved the one on one tackle of Bush :p
     

Share This Page