McCarthy's Playcalling

[Oski]

You must have those stats handy to make such a comment: Where does he stand regarding going for it on 4th down vs. the league? Again, you have the stats vs. the league right? Did you think he was better at balancing the run and pass last season when Lacy’s ypc average was better? (The irony of this comment IMO is a few seasons ago McCarthy had to remind himself to run the ball more.) Mike McCarthy has been HC of the Packers for 8 full seasons. His offenses have finished the regular season in the top 10 scoring offenses in 7 of those 8 seasons (only his first year offense didn’t). They’ve finished in the top 5, five times. Over those regular seasons those teams have averaged about 26.7 points per game. (The numbers are better if you eliminate his first season but I included them.) The Packers are currently 8th in points per game this season. I think it’s fair to say he’s accomplished that point production without having a dominant OL. Calling his track record “absurd conservatism” is IMO itself absurd.

What does it matter what the rest of the league does? What matters if it's the right decision and every study every done show that going for it on 4th down is the correct decision. And yes I thought that last year he ran it too much on first and second down. As for the statistics you listed how much of that is Rodgers related? 90%? 100%? we all saw what happened when Rodgers went out last year. If it's McCarthy that is responsible why doesn't the offense keep producing with Rodgers out? You are making the classic mistake of ignoring how a hall of famer qb inflates statistics. Tony Dungy, another offensive genius I guess.

 

[Carl]

What does it matter what the rest of the league does? What matters if it's the right decision and every study every done show that going for it on 4th down is the correct decision. And yes I thought that last year he ran it too much on first and second down. As for the statistics you listed how much of that is Rodgers related? 90%? 100%? we all saw what happened when Rodgers went out last year. If it's McCarthy that is responsible why doesn't the offense keep producing with Rodgers out? You are making the classic mistake of ignoring how a hall of famer qb inflates statistics. Tony Dungy, another offensive genius I guess.

Can you provide those studies?

 

[Oski]

Can you provide those studies?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/upshot/4th-down-when-to-go-for-it-and-why.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

 

[TJV]

What does it matter what the rest of the league does?

So you're looking at McCarthy in a vacuum? That makes no sense IMO. BTW, last season when Rodgers missed almost one-half of the games, McCarthy's offense finished tied for 8th scoring an average of 26.1 ppg. Also, just as you should look more toward the DC on the Packers during McCarthy's tenure as HC (because he's the defacto OC), you should look toward Dungy's OC (because he was the defacto DC).

 

[Carl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/upshot/4th-down-when-to-go-for-it-and-why.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

First of all, this study doesn't say going for it is always correct, just that teams should go for it more.

Secondly, it doesn't help your case about they shouldn't have kicked the FG late yesterday:

"On fourth-and-6, go for it between your opponent’s 47 and your opponent’s 35." because "As the yards-to-go increases, the low risk of succeeding on fourth down makes punting or kicking a field goal a wiser option for most places on the field."

 

[Oski]

So you're looking at McCarthy in a vacuum? That makes no sense IMO. BTW, last season when Rodgers missed almost one-half of the games, McCarthy's offense finished tied for 8th scoring an average of 26.1 ppg. Also, just as you should look more toward the DC on the Packers during McCarthy's tenure as HC (because he's the defacto OC), you should look toward Dungy's OC (because he was the defacto DC).

Why do we care if the rest of the NFL is as conservative as he is? And despite the fact that Rodgers was injured during the easiest part of the schedule they averaged 21 points per game without him. If you are seriously telling me having the highest rated qb in nfl history hasn't inflated McCarthy's stats then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

[Oski]

First of all, this study doesn't say going for it is always correct, just that teams should go for it more.

Secondly, it doesn't help your case about they shouldn't have kicked the FG late yesterday:

"On fourth-and-6, go for it between your opponent’s 47 and your opponent’s 35." because "As the yards-to-go increases, the low risk of succeeding on fourth down makes punting or kicking a field goal a wiser option for most places on the field."

Surely I'm not suggesting McCarthy go for it on his own 20 or if he's in field goal range.

I would have kicked the field goal too if it was in the 3rd quarter. Ignoring the clock and score in your analysis is rather silly.

 

[Carl]

Surely I'm not suggesting McCarthy go for it on his own 20 or if he's in field goal range.

I would have kicked the field goal too if it was in the 3rd quarter. Ignoring the clock and score in your analysis is rather silly.

Not ignoring the clock. 4 mins is plenty of time for a stop and TD drive and it was enough yesterday.

Anyway, I asked for other examples of not going for it when they should and only received a 4th and 19 play in a second quarter. Without good support of your opinion despite providing plenty on my side, I'm not going to argue about it anymore.

 

[Oski]

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Not ignoring the clock. 4 mins is plenty of time for a stop and TD drive and it was enough yesterday.
Anyway, I asked for examples of not going for it when they should and only received a 4th and 19 play in a second quarter. Without good support of your opinion despite providing plenty on my side, I'm not going to argue about it anymore.

we scored with 3 seconds left on the clock despite running a hurry up offense. that's plenty of time? the chances of success in that situation are minuscule. The fact it worked doesn't make it the right decision.

I see 4th and 6, but are you seriously telling me you've never seen McCarthy punt it on the opponents side of the field? You are seriously telling me he goes for it most of the time? Hell how about 1/4? does he even do that.

btw we are 23rd in the nfl in 4th down attempts. So yes we can safely assume he's more conservative than average. which we've done 3 times all season. we know at least one of those unquestionably was because it was the end of the game and he had no choice.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownAttempts

Is that good enough support for you?

 

[red4tribe]

second drive of the second quarter he was at the 49 yard line and punted. let's go crazy and say he's done two onside kicks. that's still 3 aggressive special team plays in 8 years. hell make it 4. that's still one every other season. that's what you consider aggressive?

I think you missed my previous post, I named numerous onside kicks.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

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we scored with 3 seconds left on the clock despite running a hurry up offense. that's plenty of time? the chances of success in that situation are minuscule. The fact it worked doesn't make it the right decision.

I see 4th and 6, but are you seriously telling me you've never seen McCarthy punt it on the opponents side of the field? You are seriously telling me he goes for it most of the time? Hell how about 1/4? does he even do that.

btw we are 23rd in the nfl in 4th down attempts. So yes we can safely assume he's more conservative than average. which we've done 3 times all season. we know at least one of those unquestionably was because it was the end of the game and he had no choice.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/fourthDownAttempts

Is that good enough support for you?

Very selective use of stats. We are 7th in 3rd down percentage, and only 2 of the 6 teams ahead of us even have one more 4th down attempt (4), 3 others have less ( 2 teams have 2 and the other has just 1 attempt) and 1 team has 3, the same amount as us. Being successful on third down means not having to try 4th down often.

 

[Oski]

I think you missed my previous post, I named numerous onside kicks.

So 2?

 

[Oski]

Very selective use of stats. We are 7th in 3rd down percentage, and only 2 of the 6 teams ahead of us even have one more 4th down attempt (4), 3 others have less ( 2 teams have 2 and the other has just 1 attempt) and 1 team has 3, the same amount as us. Being successful on third down means not having to try 4th down often.

You can't be serious. You are seriously saying we haven't had many chances to go on 4th down?

 

[red4tribe]

You can't be serious. You are seriously saying we haven't had many chances to go on 4th down?

No, if you go back to where I quoted you, you can see I've listed four successful surprise ones. And I know I've missed a few.

 

[Oski]

No, if you go back to where I quoted you, you can see I've listed four successful surprise ones. And I know I've missed a few.

So 5 trick play in 8 years is agressive?

 

[red4tribe]

So 5 trick play in 8 years is agressive?

Trick plays are less tricky and less effective when you run them all the time.

 

[Oski]

Trick plays are less tricky and less effective when you run them all the time.

That didn't really answer the question, but I'm thinking once or twice a year isn't going to kill the surprise factor.

 

[Oski]

And there is also the added benefit of doing it often enough that the opposing team has to spend time preparing for it.

 

[red4tribe]

That didn't really answer the question, but I'm thinking once or twice a year isn't going to kill the surprise factor.

I'm thinking that one or two surprise onside kicks a year(there was one against the Jets this year already) is one way of showing how McCarthy has aggressive tendencies. I listed other examples earlier in the thread so I won't rehash them, but I believe McCarthy is more aggressive than most give him credit for.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you are seriously telling me having the highest rated qb in nfl history hasn't inflated McCarthy's stats then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Do you seriously believe that McCarthy has nothing to do with Rodgers being the highest rated QB in NFL history???

In addition, judging McCarthy´s play calling by the number of onside kick he has attempted is ridiculous IMO. BTW do you know we´re talking about a play that has had a success rate of 18.2% since the start of the 2013 season???

 

[NOMOFO]

That didn't really answer the question, but I'm thinking once or twice a year isn't going to kill the surprise factor.

I totally agree! I think Mike McCarthy should be fired for not running that ONE trick play...ummmmm... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...... that ...ahhhh....that one time that... I'm just sure it would have worked and taken us to a Superbowl win!

 

[NOMOFO]

Do you seriously believe that McCarthy has nothing to do with Rodgers being the highest rated QB in NFL history???

In addition, judging McCarthy´s play calling by the number of onside kick he has attempted is ridiculous IMO. BTW do you know we´re talking about a play that has had a success rate of 18.2% since the start of the 2013 season???

Yes, he does. He thinks Aaron Rodgers is a product of Aaron Rodgers who was in fact the Aaron Rodgers that was Aaron Rodgers 12 years ago with credit for his play going to Aaron Rodgers thanks to Aaron Rodgers.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers gave birth to Aaron Rodgers or did his mom?

 

[Oski]

Do you seriously believe that McCarthy has nothing to do with Rodgers being the highest rated QB in NFL history???

In addition, judging McCarthy´s play calling by the number of onside kick he has attempted is ridiculous IMO. BTW do you know we´re talking about a play that has had a success rate of 18.2% since the start of the 2013 season???

nothing? No. Very little. yes.

I didn't being up onside kicks. It was used as an example of him being aggressive and I simply pointed out that doing it once every other year doesn't seem very aggressive to me.

 

[Oski]

I totally agree! I think Mike McCarthy should be fired for not running that ONE trick play...ummmmm... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...... that ...ahhhh....that one time that... I'm just sure it would have worked and taken us to a Superbowl win!

It's all or nothing for you isn't it? No shades of gray. Neither he's great or he sucks.

 

[NOMOFO]

It's all or nothing for you isn't it? No shades of gray. Neither he's great or he sucks.

lol....You are honestly impossible. People are attempting to humor you but you won't have it. You simply get deeper and deeper into completely illogical ramblings. You are as bad as the brent apologists that believed everything green and gold was created by and for brent favefer.

There's not a bigger Aaron Rodgers fan on the planet than me. I love this guy. I thank the Lord above every day that we have him as our QB in Green Bay. That's doesn't mean however that I disregard the positive impact others have had on him, and the role anyone else might play to help the team win.

Let it go for God's sake. He's a great HOF QB and the Pack is a good team with a good coach. Enjoy the ride ...or... you could become a Bear's fan. THEY have a "brilliant" offensive minded head coach...so I'm told.