Is Adams the next homegrown talent to get a new contract?

gbgary

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I'm partial. Any wr who can get open can easily catch double digit touchdowns playing with Aaron Rodgers. I'm more convinced every wr on the roster outside of Jordy Nelson is a product of the system to be honest. Just look what happened to James Jones, and Greg Jennings when they left. Proof is in the pudding.
in the nfl if you get open (and actually catch it) you'll be a highly paid success. getting open isn't system, it's speed, technique, strength, smarts, experience. jennings went to a crap team and admittedly lost his desire. jones actually had a good year with oak.
 

swhitset

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Second to who?

Every #1 or #2 guy that Rodgers has who is worth his salt will lead the league in some category and pile up numbers against weak competition, but how many of them produce in a similar fashion against the league's best CBs or defensive schemes? Padding stats against the weak Bears or Eagles' secondaries doesn't really do much for a team wanting to build towards a championship.
Almost every wide receiver gets a chance to "Pad his stats" against weaker secondaries every year. Consider all of the receivers that got a chance to play the Packers last year. I don't see this as a valid argument against Adams.
 

Patriotplayer90

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Wait, so you're saying Dez Bryant isn't all that good because he plays against those same Eagles and Packers DB's? And Megatron was only so-so because of the Packers and Bears DB's?
He mentioned stats, so I talked stats.
Way to completely take my comment out of context. You can count on Megatron to give the top defenses in the league problems. Secondaries the like of Denver or NE could give less of a crap about Adams while game planning. He hasn't provided to be effective against great defenses, so I don't believe that he should get paid like a #1 WR, which is what he'll likely be looking to get because of his padded stats.
 

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He mentioned stats, so I talked stats.
Way to completely take my comment out of context. You can count on Megatron to give the top defenses in the league problems. Secondaries the like of Denver or NE could give less of a crap about Adams while game planning. He hasn't provided to be effective against great defenses, so I don't believe that he should get paid like a #1 WR, which is what he'll likely be looking to get because of his padded stats.
You were inferring the Packers WR's stats come from padding them against inferior competition. I was pointing out that all the leagues receivers have the same opportunity.
 

Patriotplayer90

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You were inferring the Packers WR's stats come from padding them against inferior competition. I was pointing out that all the leagues receivers have the same opportunity.
The elite WRs show up in meaningful games against tough competition. They could put up underwhelming stats all year for all I care, as long as they are good enough to be effective against the top competition. GB could sign a ton of guys to put up yardage and TDs against Chicago, but that doesn't make them worth the $10M that Thompson thought that Cobb was.

Look at Von Miller. He was good during the regular season last year, but became a household name after the playoff/SB run. When will someone other than Rodgers prove to be worthy of a marquee matchup? Until they show it, I don't think they should be rewarded for their regular season performances against weak competition.
 

rodell330

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Loved Greg Jennings. Wish he was still here...and Jones. But they were BOTH significantly better with Rodgers. End of discussion
 

pizzle

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I really don't like the thought of this. But I think Ted is hoping he can allow Davante to walk in the next off-season. Why? Because he drafted two WRs this year. I think Ted wants Davis to step up and play close to how Allison has when Geronimo got his opportunities and capitalized last year. If Davis makes a big jump, along with Allison being steady/Yancey and/or Dupree picking up the offense and making plays in practice early in the season, TT is gonna go the cheap route and let Adams test the market and get a bag from another team. He won't restructure Jordy or Cobb because I think when he signs guys to the second contract he sees that as their one true reward. He would rather be cheap/stingy in how he acquires/retains players than redo a contract once its been made. So yeah, I'm worried about us keeping #17. Unless Ted stops being stubborn in his ways/doesn't feel confident in all the cheap young guys he has brought in as insurance, we might have one more year with the kid and then he'll be gone.

I hope that Ted restructures Jordy/Randall (basically extend them for 2-3 extra years while also lowering their cap #s) in order to give Davante an extension before the end of TC.

That is a rather jaded way of looking at it. I'm more of the opinion that Thompson would like to see all the players play to the best of their ability and be successful.

Unfortunately i dont see how they keep cobb nelson and adams at 30 million against the cap. and that would entail structuring adams to only count about 6 million against the cap in 2018. i dont see how it wpuld be smart to keep cobb at the cost of losing adams. adams is only 24 and the team has no one ready to replace him. while cobbs replacement is ready to go and will be much better than cobb, jotdy nelson. what TT needs to find is a replacement for nelsons snaps on the outside. also i think nelson gets a 3rd contract after 2018


I don't think that Ted doesn't want all the players to perform well. What I do think is that TT, like most front office/administrative guys in sports, makes certain moves/plans for certain scenarios in order to deal with the dichotomy of fielding a competitive team and also run that team as a profitable business. That's the reason why I stated earlier that Ted drafted Davis, Yancey and Dupree in the last two years. If Jordy/Cobb is out for significant time again this season/if Davante has an inconsistent season performance-wise/if Trader Ted decides that it is cost-efficient to not keep around any of those three players, he's keeping the cupboards stocked with young WR talent to replace them.

While I do think that Jordy could provide some late career production as a slot receiver similar to what Larry Fitzgerald has done, people really underestimate Randall Cobb's value. The Giants playoff game last year should have proven #18's worth. He is equally as important as Jordy, because he is a safety blanket. Sure, he may not be as lethal a deep threat, but no receiver is head and shoulders better than him in terms of running short-to-intermediate routes in the league IMO. He has sure hands and QB-level football IQ.

The only issue with him has been a) he's gotten banged up at times, and b) when Jordy/Adams/good TEs are not available to compliment him, his game suffers due to being emphasized more by the defense. With a healthy Jordy/Adams, and 2 athletic pass-catching TEs in Kendricks/Bennett, defenses can't focus on Cobb. Expect him to have some nice stats this year because of it. His numbers are probably gonna go BACK UP, instead of going down due to all the weapons we've amassed, including using #88 as our starting RB/WR hybrid. Cobb will be facing either the worst coverage corner/safety or a LB on most downs. He's gonna feast.

Here's me being optimistic about Ted. The one thing I do see him doing is genuinely making an effort to appease #12 on the field by keeping him loaded with offensive toys. If he's not thinking about restructuring #52 on defense due to injury/performance, then I doubt he's thinking about cutting #18/#87 to save cap space. Tbh, I think those two guys and #17 are the reason why he's holding onto the extra cap space instead of buying more defensive help. What's prolly gonna happen is that Davante gets extended before the end of TC if possible under a lengthy, back-loaded contract that gives him some nice guaranteed $$$ but is cap/team friendly. Say, 5 years, 50 million, 30 guaranteed, huge signing bonus, but 2018's cap # is only like 2 million. The 2019 cap # probably only is around 3-4 milly. That way, they can fit him, Jordy, and Randall together next year. Plus, since Ted has given Jordy & Randall their dough and not tried to take any back (and they play with the best QB in football) they will probably be cool with signing 2 year extensions at the end of this season. I think Jordy will take something near 15 million, and Cobb will take 10 million. They both get nice signing bonuses for having low cap numbers in 2018 and 2019, which gives the team the flexibility they need. Aaron is happy because this means that for the next 3 years at minimum he's going to have his top 3 WRs and Bennett as pass-catching options. So I do see a likely scenario that Adams gets paid like Jordy and Randall did.
 
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I do agree with this, but his production is likely to warrant an offer from other teams in the $10M range,and that's too much for a #2 WR, as it was for Cobb. Factoring in the addition of Bennett, and that's a ton of money wrapped up in that group if Adams stays around.

I agree that the Packers shouldn't offer Adams a contract paying him $10 million a season. That's why it might be smart to extend his deal before this season.

Adams is a #3 receiver, pretty much the equal of James Jones imo at this point in his career. If he shows continued improvement he'll get a nice paycheck soon.

Adams is a decent #2 outside receiver.

Unfortunately i dont see how they keep cobb nelson and adams at 30 million against the cap. and that would entail structuring adams to only count about 6 million against the cap in 2018. i dont see how it wpuld be smart to keep cobb at the cost of losing adams. adams is only 24 and the team has no one ready to replace him. while cobbs replacement is ready to go and will be much better than cobb, jotdy nelson. what TT needs to find is a replacement for nelsons snaps on the outside. also i think nelson gets a 3rd contract after 2018

It's true that the Packers already spend a lot of cap space on wide receivers (actually the most in the league). In my opinion it would be smart to offer extensions to Nelson, Cobb and Adams to keep the top three players at the position but lower their cap hit.

Way to completely take my comment out of context. You can count on Megatron to give the top defenses in the league problems. Secondaries the like of Denver or NE could give less of a crap about Adams while game planning. He hasn't provided to be effective against great defenses, so I don't believe that he should get paid like a #1 WR, which is what he'll likely be looking to get because of his padded stats.

I haven't seen anyone suggest that Adams should be paid like a #1 receiver.

What's prolly gonna happen is that Davante gets extended before the end of TC if possible under a lengthy, back-loaded contract that gives him some nice guaranteed $$$ but is cap/team friendly. Say, 5 years, 50 million, 30 guaranteed, huge signing bonus, but 2018's cap # is only like 2 million. The 2019 cap # probably only is around 3-4 milly.

It's impossble that Adams only counts $2-4 million against the cap if the Packers decide to pay him a huge signing bonus.
 

pizzle

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I agree that the Packers shouldn't offer Adams a contract paying him $10 million a season. That's why it might be smart to extend his deal before this season.



Adams is a decent #2 outside receiver.



It's true that the Packers already spend a lot of cap space on wide receivers (actually the most in the league). In my opinion it would be smart to offer extensions to Nelson, Cobb and Adams to keep the top three players at the position but lower their cap hit.



I haven't seen anyone suggest that Adams should be paid like a #1 receiver.



It's impossble that Adams only counts $2-4 million against the cap if the Packers decide to pay him a huge signing bonus.

In the case of any signing bonus going towards the cap hit for the first year of the extension, I guess that would mean both a) the contract would need to be creative in structure in order to accommodate for keeping Jordy and Randall around plus b) I see why TT is holding onto so much cap space. It's for any possible extension between Aaron/Davante/Lane Taylor/Morgan Burnett that might be able to get done this year.
 
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In the case of any signing bonus going towards the cap hit for the first year of the extension, I guess that would mean both a) the contract would need to be creative in structure in order to accommodate for keeping Jordy and Randall around plus b) I see why TT is holding onto so much cap space.

The signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract for a maximum of five years.

As an example Nick Perry received a signing bonus of $18.5 million when signing the contract in March which will count $3.7 million against the Packers cap in each of the next five seasons.
 

pizzle

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The signing bonus is prorated over the length of the contract for a maximum of five years.

As an example Nick Perry received a signing bonus of $18.5 million when signing the contract in March which will count $3.7 million against the Packers cap in each of the next five seasons.

So in the case of Davante, extending him I think with a 5 year 50 million deal where the 1st/2nd year base salary is near 1/2 million and the signing bonus is 15 million would allow for them get him, with the other bonuses that are available nowadays (I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff) probably near 25 million guaranteed, which at 50% of the contract is good to me considering it's pro football. We'd also be able to prolly extend Jordy/Randall this season thru 2020 and get their cap hits lowered/divided over more years in order to keep Aaron's WR crew in tact for the next four years.
 
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So in the case of Davante, extending him I think with a 5 year 50 million deal where the 1st/2nd year base salary is near 1/2 million and the signing bonus is 15 million would allow for them get him, with the other bonuses that are available nowadays (I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff) probably near 25 million guaranteed, which at 50% of the contract is good to me considering it's pro football. We'd also be able to prolly extend Jordy/Randall this season thru 2020 and get their cap hits lowered/divided over more years in order to keep Aaron's WR crew in tact for the next four years.

Adams would still count at least $4 million against the cap in the first two ssasons of the deal. Unfortunately the number would increase to an average of $14 million over the last three years under your proposal.

BTW the Packers hardly hand out 50% guaranteed money.
 

Mondio

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Loved Greg Jennings. Wish he was still here...and Jones. But they were BOTH significantly better with Rodgers. End of discussion
who wouldn't be? It's not a one way street in the passing game. If you have a receiver, like Jennings, that can run all the routes, make the catches and is so smooth he makes defenders look silly as he glides by them, but you dont' have a QB that can throw more than 5 yards downfield, you're missing a very important piece to the equation. It doesn't mean Jennings wasn't really that good. Because he was. So is Rodgers, and they both benefitted from each other.


and Jones had going on 80 catches and 6 TD's. Respectable by anyone's standards as a pass catcher and he did it with a rookie QB and in his only season on that team. he came back and did about the same with Rodgers the following year. Less targets, a few less catches, a couple more TD's and more downfield. But that should be expected with a HOF qb compared to a rookie. It doesn't mean Rodgers made James Jones

On the flip side, we've seen plenty of WR's that cant' catch a pass or play on an offense with Rodgers. If people want to use the excuse that these guys are only good because Rodgers is throwing the ball, and while opportunity and confidence in your QB definitely helps, it's not all there is to the equation. Plenty of guys can't be where they're supposed to be, plenty of guys may have trust in the qb, but clearly don't have the trust OF the QB. Plenty of guys aren't consistent enough and plenty have not made any significant impact as a WR even with Rodgers throwing them the ball.
 

Patriotplayer90

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I agree that the Packers shouldn't offer Adams a contract paying him $10 million a season. That's why it might be smart to extend his deal before this season.



Adams is a decent #2 outside receiver.



It's true that the Packers already spend a lot of cap space on wide receivers (actually the most in the league). In my opinion it would be smart to offer extensions to Nelson, Cobb and Adams to keep the top three players at the position but lower their cap hit.



I haven't seen anyone suggest that Adams should be paid like a #1 receiver.



It's impossble that Adams only counts $2-4 million against the cap if the Packers decide to pay him a huge signing bonus.
He's outperforming Cobb, who isn't the #1 and is making $10M, so I don't see him expecting less than that.
 

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So in the case of Davante, extending him I think with a 5 year 50 million deal where the 1st/2nd year base salary is near 1/2 million and the signing bonus is 15 million would allow for them get him, with the other bonuses that are available nowadays (I'm not an expert on this kind of stuff) probably near 25 million guaranteed, which at 50% of the contract is good to me considering it's pro football. We'd also be able to prolly extend Jordy/Randall this season thru 2020 and get their cap hits lowered/divided over more years in order to keep Aaron's WR crew in tact for the next four years.
I think your 5yr/ 50M is possible if Adams conntinues to improve performance.

The thing I disagree with is the 50% guaranteed money. That doesn't happen in Green Bay. It's more likely to be between 25-33% guaranteed like almost all of the past contract extensions. It does however happen in many, if not most other NFL franchises.
 
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He's outperforming Cobb, who isn't the #1 and is making $10M, so I don't see him expecting less than that.

While it's true that Adams outperformed Cobb in 2016 he hasn't proven to be capable of turning into a #1 receiver and therefore shouldn't be paid as one.
 

gbgary

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The elite WRs show up in meaningful games against tough competition. They could put up underwhelming stats all year for all I care, as long as they are good enough to be effective against the top competition. GB could sign a ton of guys to put up yardage and TDs against Chicago, but that doesn't make them worth the $10M that Thompson thought that Cobb was.

I don't think they should be rewarded for their regular season performances against weak competition.
Packers play a 'first place' schedule almost every year. if they don't want to pay their guys the market rate for their regular season performances, then they'll lose them and they'll be a crap team and we'll be complaining that tt is being cheap and putting a good team around rodgers.
 

gbgary

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I think your 5yr/ 50M is possible if Adams conntinues to improve performance.

The thing I disagree with is the 50% guaranteed money. That doesn't happen in Green Bay. It's more likely to be between 25-33% guaranteed like almost all of the past contract extensions. It does however happen in many, if not most other NFL franchises.
and ALL other sports. the nfl is below the curve in that area but it's catching up and someday will be with everyone else.
 

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and ALL other sports. the nfl is below the curve in that area but it's catching up and someday will be with everyone else.
You may be right but I see it just the opposite way. Long term heavily guaranteed contracts are a terrible way to do business from a management perspective when you have a salary cap in place. I'm extremely happy with the way Russ Ball has structured contracts. The crap pile is heaped with franchises that haven't figured out how to effectively manage the cap.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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In my "perfect world" player contracts would be heavily weighted on incentive pay. As a fan, I would love to see guys getting paid for what they are actually earning VS the guaranteed crap we as fans are forced to "swallow" (read about). In many industries you are paid for what you produce/sell, not for what you could potentially do. Such a system would put an end to the guessing game of "will he play up to his contract?" "Will he exceed his contract?", etc. Play...produce....get paid.

I also fully acknowledge that due to various factors, such a salary system will probably never fully occur in the NFL.
 
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if they don't want to pay their guys the market rate for their regular season performances, then they'll lose them and they'll be a crap team and we'll be complaining that tt is being cheap and putting a good team around rodgers.

It's absolutely fine to pay market value to retain players but overpaying for too many will result in salary cap issues.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Packers play a 'first place' schedule almost every year. if they don't want to pay their guys the market rate for their regular season performances, then they'll lose them and they'll be a crap team and we'll be complaining that tt is being cheap and putting a good team around rodgers.

Those bolded words are where a team can get in trouble or prosper; what is the market rate and what performance do you go off of in establishing it? How many times have we seen a player have a great season or a few encourage games, sign a big contract and then go back to being just average? That is the part of player evaluation that some of us question at times, usually I try and fall back on my opinion and leave that up to the organization and say "they have a lot more of the necessary information than I do to make that decision."
 

Patriotplayer90

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Packers play a 'first place' schedule almost every year. if they don't want to pay their guys the market rate for their regular season performances, then they'll lose them and they'll be a crap team and we'll be complaining that tt is being cheap and putting a good team around rodgers.
I personally don't feel like the Packers need 3 $10M Wrs and a $7M TE in order for Rodgers to be effective. Now that we have a legitimate threat at TE, I think only one WR justifies that type of pay, and should be surrounded by guys on rookie contracts, and guys who can be found at a reasonable price (such as Matthews or Hogan, as mentioned earlier) and produce nearly as much. I don't expect TT to become a whiz at these things like NE is, but I think even he can find some middle ground between the FA bargains and overpaying the Cobb-type receivers.

Right now, there are basically 3 guys sucking up all of the money on the defensive side, and it's not difficult to see why. They'll have to spend more money on this side of the ball, since the drafting and development isn't working out nearly as well as it is on the offensive side.
 

Dantés

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I personally don't feel like the Packers need 3 $10M Wrs and a $7M TE in order for Rodgers to be effective. Now that we have a legitimate threat at TE, I think only one WR justifies that type of pay, and should be surrounded by guys on rookie contracts, and guys who can be found at a reasonable price (such as Matthews or Hogan, as mentioned earlier) and produce nearly as much. I don't expect TT to become a whiz at these things like NE is, but I think even he can find some middle ground between the FA bargains and overpaying the Cobb-type receivers.

Right now, there are basically 3 guys sucking up all of the money on the defensive side, and it's not difficult to see why. They'll have to spend more money on this side of the ball, since the drafting and development isn't working out nearly as well as it is on the offensive side.

So say they let Adams walk, and then Nelson and Cobb expire after 2018 and they themselves leave. Wouldn't it be nice at that point to have a good #2 in his prime with a AR rapport? Their contracts only have to overlap for one season. And I won't be surprised if Cobb is gone after this season actually, unless there's a big bounce back.

Letting Adams go seems like a recipe for getting caught with our pants down in 2019. Wide receiver is a really critical position in this offense.
 

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