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I called it ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Hauschild, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Then you dont venture out onto other forums that have the hard core Brettlovers
     
  2. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    No I don't. One thing I do try to be is fair and I don't think anyone reasonable can say Rodgers is a bad qb no matter how you feel about bot qbs. I do think there can be a differing opinion as to how good he is, but he's not bad has the ability so far.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    espn forum, official brett favre forum, blame EVERYTHING on Rodgers

    At least here the debate is civil, has actual teeth behind the debates and not just based on fantasy world

    Example?

    OBF at start of training camp----Harris and Driver will be cut by Ted because they supported Brett....Packers only have wins because the teams they faced suck
     
  4. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    According to them the Vikes have already won the SB.

    But when (Not if-when) the Vikes lose a play off or the SB, you bet I'll be there to mention it.
     
  5. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    But, no matter how you want to spin this, you ARE saying Brett Favre succumbs to the December monster. You say this, though, knowing full well that the temperature or month Favre plays in really doesn't amount to a hill of beans - it is the OPPONENT he and his teams are facing on any given night after November 30th, past midnight, blah, blah, blah ....

    Not to mention that it probably averages out to half of the December games Favre plays are on the road and how many of them are played in below freezing weather, maybe 20%??? None of this stuff yer peddling is buy-able, unless I talk myself into the accepting all this hate speech about Brett Favre.

    If anybody wants a reasonable take on this situation, listen to Jamie Dukes. He's loud and obnoxious, but he understands the NFL from a high and low level and realizes one guy is not responsible for run-blocking, pass-blocking, running, receiving and coaching. Brett would be a part, but the whole is much greater than a part in a team sport like football.

    Like I say time and time again, just show me the December games Favre's teams lose, and then show me the open receivers he misses CONSISTENTLY. Show me where he checks out of running plays that up to any given point during the course of a game, have been highly successful. Show me where he holds onto the ball too long and takes coverage sacks. Nobody can, because it is non-existent - it's a figment of the haters' imaginations. They want something to be true, so they make **** up and spew it so often they actually believe it.

    Nobody in the world understands his trade better than Brett Favre and if he is struggling (and not just one throw, either), your team is being manhandled, almost assuredly. Your running game is being stymied. Your pass protection against a four-man-front is continually breaking down. Your receivers either are not getting open or your line isn't giving Favre a pocket to step up into - he is forced to break the pocket and spend an extra second or two getting his F.O.V. back into focus.

    Just try it my way the next time you watch Brett Favre play. Watch HOW he plays within the context of how his team is playing. If he struggles, how has the running game been producing? Is he getting time to step up? Is he routinely missing open receivers with under throws or over throws? Are his receivers gaining separation and getting open? Are they dropping any footballs???? Watch these games within a neutral frame of mind like I do and I think you will begin to understand.
     
  6. tfrentz

    tfrentz Cheesehead

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    wow you get really excited don't you, and can you spin BS like other in the world and have a lot of time on your hands.
     
  7. Ted's Zombie Army

    Ted's Zombie Army Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't be a fan if I watched them with a neutral frame of mind. I want my team to win and I watch the game from that perspective.

    Personally, I don't get straddling the fence, the way you do. We've all seen and heard enough from Favre to make a choice about how we feel. And some of us don't really give a rip about the other factors in the game. No. 4 can tank a game like any other QB and he has and does.
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Care to show me where I said his teams lose when his rating dips?
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I HAVE watched how he plays since 92..You act like I only look at stats...

    I stood up for this man on many forums, time and time again..I tried to make people see it with a open frame of mind and was told I was blind..

    But one thing I always said and even said it on his official forum, that I thought he wears down as season went on...I was hoping that Sherman, MMc would let him rest when games got out of hand..But they never did..

    And like it or not the common ground is that as soon as the temp dips so does his rating..."HIS" teams might win every game when its 40 degrees but still doesnt mean that his rating cant drop..

    I am NOT BLAMING him for any loss in December, I hope that is not what you think I am getting at
     
  10. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    Favre is just like any other QB. If a QB has a running game and time to throw the ball he looks great. If he is constantly under duress he struggles. This is why it is silly to say "Favre/Manning/Brees won" when it takes 11 guys working as one to move the ball up and down the field. In the past couple of games MN's O line has had problems opening holes for AP and protecting #4. That offense doesn't look as invincible as it did earlier in the season. We shall see...
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    So the Bears with the highly ranked pass D was the reason for the loss?

    Saw this and thought no one will mention it....

    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091229&sportCat=nfl

     
  12. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    The Bears played out of their minds in the first half and I think Minnesota only had 4 first downs and 50 yards passing.

    The difference, I believe, in this game compared with Arizona and Carolina is that Minnesota's adjustments worked. The pass protection improved ten-fold in the second half which led to Brett picking apart the defense, which then opened up the running game a little bit.

    Sometimes they say rankings don't tell the entire story because a high ranked passing defense could be the result of a poor run defense, which I think is the story with Chicago. But, their run defense was outstanding in the first half.

    This is why you need to watch the games in their entirety and pay attention to details. After two quarters last nite, I'm sure everybody that bought into the sucks-in-December hype talked at their TV's and said, "Yup - just like clockwork."

    However, what can then be said about the way Favre's numbers improved dramatically in the second half? Did his mind and body suddenly go back in time two months to October and he "psyched" himself into playing October football, or maybe - just maybe - did his coaching staff make successful adjustments and his offensive teammates improved their play? Which is more accurate and makes the most sense? Ya feelin' me?

    This is why it is so blatantly obvious to me that while Brett's numbers decrease in the latter months, it has more to do with his opponents' play than the cold or the month he's playing in.
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You are aware I am talking about COLD weather, not the actual MONTH..It just so happens that Dec tends to have the most cold games...Even with that said Dec is still his worse month..

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/1025/splits;_ylt=ArD13FJyfV2R9P50REbaJA_.uLYF?year=career

    [​IMG]



    but again his rating is lowest in Dec his int total is the highest and his td total is the lowest (well ctober is the lowest, but he has about 12 less games in Oct which is probably bye week related..If he had same amount of games in Oct as the other months Dec would for sure be his lowest month)

    but with all that said, I am still at a loss as to why your so sure it is the opponents that make his rating low?

    I showed you in other post that for the past 5 years? Those games the D he played were average or BELOW avg and his numbers still went down..So how can you apply that theory?

    But seriously, whats the effing difference on why it is?

    It is a statistical FACT it is his worse month
     
  14. The Drew

    The Drew #packergang

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    Great analysis sir!
     
  15. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    And, then you expect me take your posts seriously??? Really???
     
  16. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    Its also a fact that its not so good of a month for other qbs too. Why is it that Favre get singled out and not a word is mentioned about the others?
    I know you are not trying to rip the guy, but point out a trend. But in light of this table I think it loses its puch.
     
  17. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Statistics are like bikinis; what they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.

    So, again, you want all of us bright minds to believe that the weather affects only Brett Favre and that unlike 100 percent of Brett's contemporaries, his particular opponent has no bearing on his performance.

    Uh, yeah, pull this appendage and you'll hear a rousing round of Jingle Bells. :happy0005:
     
  18. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Because Favre is a successful NFL player and people try to tear ya down when you're the best of the best.

    It's unfortunate and really unnecessary when you think about it, continually harping placing more emphasis on that which has little substance.
     
  19. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Again you are taking the stats out of context ...

    - Yes according to the spread sheet (if we ONLY look at Favre's stats), December is his worst "statwise" (that is) month ...

    BUT ! and this is a HUGE But ... - Then you would also have to agree that Favre should be labelled as having "October-slumps" as well ... Since his ratings (statistically) drops in this month as well ... And how exactly did October play out this season ???

    My point being, stat's taken out of context can always be "manipulated" to show whatever you want them to show ...

    That was the exact reason why I posted the comparisons to other "Top Tier" quarterbacks as well in the other thread , to "broaden" the picture so to speak ...

    And that is the reason why I don't agree nor buy into the "December Slump" nor "Favre can't play in the cold anymore", theory ...

    As I said earlier ... *IF* it were only Favre who had stats that went "up and down" during the latter half of the season, then perhaps, I would be more inclined to agree with you ... However as is, as also show by statistics, it doesn't seem to so ... ALOT of other factors weighs in on those stats as the other quarterbacks stats will tell anyone ... Or are half the leagues quarterbacks all having "December slumps" all of a sudden (well, with the exception of Romo LOL) ???

    Ratings and stats doesn't give a full picture, however anyone can always choose to look at it like that ... - Which is evident by another "stat", that Rodgers (ex.) has had declining stats (also) during the latter part of the season, but actually been performing much better in the games, as opposed to earlier in the season where Rodgers had much higher (personal) stats, but the team was performing poorly ...

    Or how would you explain that ?

    As for the "Cold Weather Syndrome" .. - Well actually the same logic applies here ... - Those that seem to support this notion, always points to the Giants game as "proof" that Favre can't play nor likes playing in the cold anymore ... - And (yet again) totally disregarding the game (against Seattle) that was played the week before under similar conditions ... Chances are that the way those two games unfolded, most likely had more to do with the players (and Favre's) expressions during the game, than the cold weather itself ...

    But since the Vikings lost at Soldier Field, and as Favre said himself during the press conference, that loss will be "chalked" into the "Favre can't play football in cold weather" category ...

    - And that should probably also be labelled on the Raven's who lost at Heinz Field against Pittsburgh ...
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Because this is about Brett Favre is it not?


    but fine

    Steve Young, Marino, Peyton, Brady, Brees, wont tell you which is which though..and one more I forgot who LOL

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    I think out of those 6 only one had a anything like Brett and those are q/b that have been good for a while or were good in the past..
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    REALLY?

    You failed to read my October..

    Less games means less chances for anything..October probably was the bye week month

    Look again


    I am shocked you didnt read it all
     
  22. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Actually I did read it :) - But you were pointing out "Stats" as the "indicator" as to why December is Favre's (statwise) "worst" month ...

    By that notion it should also include October, because if it doesn't the arguement holds very little merit (as you very well know) ...

    Statistics and numbers means virtually nothing when not put into a context ... You have to use them in a comparative way, because if not, stats won't tell you anything ... - Seems to me you are mostly arguing semantics here ...

    By your arguement and usage of the stats, it could (and should) also be argued that half the teams in the NFL are experiencing "December Slumps" and "Difficulty playing in the Cold" ..., as well as more than half the quarterbacks in the league ... - And somehow I don't think you think that ...

    You know as well as I that playing football in temperatures below freezing is much more difficult than playing when it's warmer ... Point being ... More so often than not, stats *Will* be declining, and not necesarily because players are performing poorly, but more so that the weather dictates how they have to play the game itself ...

    *chuckles*

    *Edit* - I did actually put each of those quarterbacks December (career, this season) stats into each "header" as well as their current seasonal average, in the other thread as well ...
     
  23. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Big Ben

    [​IMG]



    KURT WARNER

    [​IMG]
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I did say that October was his worse month..

    Read


    Why is it so bad to accept the fact his productions drops off in December?

    Who cares why or how, it does happen....
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yeah you did, which is awesome..

    but you only posted their numbers for December

    Nothing about the the 1st 3 months to get a gauge on their play for that year..

    thats why I needed to look at the months before Dec to get a grasp, and it does show that a majority of the ones I posted have numbers that get BETTER in Dec and not worse
     

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