Running it Back

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Dantés

Dantés

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That's a lot of the defense for me and not just week to week, but stretches in games themselves. No speaking about Clark directly, but the unit. They go from looking abysmal, to looking pretty damn good from one half to the next. On an individual level some injury could explain things like Clark specifically, but defense itself has been like that all year too.

I think it's a combination of being put in bad position by the scheme (i.e. soft, predictable zone) and not being taught how to communicate well within the defense.

Bottom line, I think Barry has proven that he isn't actually a skilled architect/teacher of the defense that he was supposed to bring to Green Bay.
 

gopkrs

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Next season we need to find someone to take Lowry's spot.
Although I answered yes to your question due to my thinking that Wyatt will be a big upgrade; we still need to get more depth and I agree someone other than Lowry. Maybe even find a big nose tackle and move Clark to tackle and only occasionally put him at nose.
 

gopkrs

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True, safety is definitely a position in need of an upgrade, especially if the Packers don't re-sign Amos.
I agree. But I was surprised at myself that I was actually happy to see Savage play late in the game. Maybe Savage would be better off not starting but filling in.
 
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I agree. But I was surprised at myself that I was actually happy to see Savage play late in the game. Maybe Savage would be better off not starting but filling in.

Unfortunately it's not a smart approach to pay a backup $8 million a season. Geez, what a terrible decision by Gutekunst to pick up the fifth year option on him.
 

McKnowledge

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Unfortunately it's not a smart approach to pay a backup $8 million a season. Geez, what a terrible decision by Gutekunst to pick up the fifth year option on him.

Terrible in voice of Charles Barkley.

Since he's picked up for next season hopefully he commits to improvement.
 

milani

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Unfortunately it's not a smart approach to pay a backup $8 million a season. Geez, what a terrible decision by Gutekunst to pick up the fifth year option on him.
At this point in the season and if Nixon cannot do it they just may try him out. He may be taking a few reps as we speak. And if we get eliminated Sunday anything goes for our finale.
 

gopkrs

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Unfortunately it's not a smart approach to pay a backup $8 million a season. Geez, what a terrible decision by Gutekunst to pick up the fifth year option on him.
The really unfortunate thing would be to start him when we could do better. Starting a guy just because he is being paid is a very poor way to put the best 11 on the field. We made a mistake. No valid reason to compound it. Maybe Savage will do better coming into the game later on. Like a 6th man in basketball. Some people take well to that role. And it is probably a bit tougher to game plan against.
 
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More on the subject of running it back. If Rodgers is kept, these are the biggest questions that come to my mind:

1. Trading Love: Trading Love only really makes sense under three scenarios: 1) He's going to intentionally become a locker room cancer (highly unlikely); 2) The FO is convinced he doesn't have a future in the league; 3) He can return a player of high value that will help immediately. The ideas of Pittman or Moore (NYJ) have been floated, but those have to be considered unlikely. So my guess is that Love is back even if Rodgers is back in Green Bay as the starter in 2023. He won't like it, but there's not much he can do about it.

2. Wide Receiver: Not that the Packers have much room to work with in terms of free agents anyways, but this upcoming WR free agent class is terrible. Legitimately the best names on the list are Jakobi Meyers, D.J. Chark, Allen Lazard, Sterling Shepard, Mecole Hardman, Nelson Agholor, Juju Smith-Schuster, etc. With such a weak class, major help at the position would have to come via the draft or trade market. A trade would be doubly expensive and seems unlikely. In my view, the best option would be to re-sign Lazard and continue adding talent via the draft. Lazard isn't anyone's idea of a #1 receiver, but he's productive in this offense and does a lot of the dirty work in the running game. A 2023 corps that starts with Watson, Doubs, and Lazard could be feasible if it added another talented rookie and perhaps a solid veteran.

3. Tight End: Almost the entire group at TE is due to hit free agency. Tonyan and Lewis are UFA's, while Davis is an RFA. Only Deguara is on the roster for next year, and he's in a niche role (H-Back), and I wouldn't even mind bringing in competition for him. Lewis' role as a true Y is critical. If he wants to play one more year, great. If not, they better be in the market for a replacement (Adam Shaheen, Jesse James, O.J. Howard). I would tender Davis simply because he's young and he's the leading ST player on the roster. The key is going to be finding a better receiving option at the position to fill Tonyan's role. Mike Gesicki and Evan Engram don't strike me as a great fit in the offense (though maybe in Lazard's role they would work). Dalton Schultz figures to get paid a hefty sum. I like the idea of playing on the second level with guys like Foster Moreau or Irv Smith Jr and/or making the position a high draft priority.

4. Right Tackle:
The years of development of Yosh Nijman have paid off and he's a starting caliber tackle who can play on either side of the line. The problem is that he can probably get between 15-18M AAV on the open market, and I doubt the Packers have any intention to match given the position they're in, cap-wise. So that raises some questions. Do they try to turn Tom into a RT when that isn't his natural position? I don't get the sense that that would work, but Newman being the starter isn't feasible either and Jenkins is far more valuable at LG than he is at RT. I think the best approach might be drafting someone in the top 100 and putting that player into the mix with Rasheed Walker, Sean Rhyan, and Caleb Jones, and letting it sort out in camp. There's no guarantee there, but that's a lot of talent in competion.
that’s a good recap Dante’s
 
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Unfortunately it's not a smart approach to pay a backup $8 million a season. Geez, what a terrible decision by Gutekunst to pick up the fifth year option on him.
I’m more inclined to think Savage starts, but in the Slot. He’s very timid when he’s not forced to play downhill. I remember he was used in college quite a bit shooting downhill and disrupting plays near LOS. He often wouldn’t make the initial tackle, but he’d slow the play down enough for his teammates to rally. He’s really more complacent the deeper he plays, as if to rely on others to do the dirty work. He’s the antithesis of a Derwin James type feel. No nasty, an abundance of timid
 
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The really unfortunate thing would be to start him when we could do better. Starting a guy just because he is being paid is a very poor way to put the best 11 on the field. We made a mistake. No valid reason to compound it. Maybe Savage will do better coming into the game later on. Like a 6th man in basketball. Some people take well to that role. And it is probably a bit tougher to game plan against.

With Amos being a free agent the Packers would have to invest into two starting safeties to put Savage on the bench for next season though. I don't think they have enough resources to make that work though.
 

McKnowledge

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With Amos being a free agent the Packers would have to invest into two starting safeties to put Savage on the bench for next season though. I don't think they have enough resources to make that work though.

Starters can't be found in the draft?
 

McKnowledge

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Of course they can. That is how they win Rookie of the year.

I'm serious. Divert money elsewhere.

Starting safeties can be found throughout the draft.

Save that money for re-signing Gary and upgrading other positions.
 

gopkrs

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With Amos being a free agent the Packers would have to invest into two starting safeties to put Savage on the bench for next season though. I don't think they have enough resources to make that work though.
I don't know why you would say that. We have done pretty well with Savage out and players on the bench filling in. Probably better than with him. Besides, you seem to be saying that Savage is starting caliber which is not what I have seen. I like him coming in off the bench though. I'm not saying not to play him at all.
 
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I don't know why you would say that. We have done pretty well with Savage out and players on the bench filling in. Probably better than with him. Besides, you seem to be saying that Savage is starting caliber which is not what I have seen. I like him coming in off the bench though. I'm not saying not to play him at all.
That or put him at Slot Corner. Force him to be in the spotlight. He does a little better when asked to play downhill or get him involved imo.
 
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Starters can't be found in the draft?

Starting safeties can be found throughout the draft.

Save that money for re-signing Gary and upgrading other positions.

I was pretty specific talking about resources and not money or cap space. I consider the team's draft selection on the first two days as precious capital and don't want Gutekunst to spend money on a free agent and an early rounder at safety next offseason. The roster has some other holes to fill as well.

I don't know why you would say that. We have done pretty well with Savage out and players on the bench filling in. Probably better than with him.

Really??? The defense gave up 40 points and 363 rushing yards against the Eagles and played poorly in the first half against the Dolphins without him as well. While they were able to shut down the Rams they're terrible this season.

Besides, you seem to be saying that Savage is starting caliber which is not what I have seen. I like him coming in off the bench though. I'm not saying not to play him at all.

Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to move on from Savage after this season. But unfortunately Gutekunst decided to exercise the fifth year option on him guaranteeing he will be on the roster in 2023 while making $8 million. I don't think there's enough resources available this offseason to have him sit on the bench next year.
 

McKnowledge

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I was pretty specific talking about resources and not money or cap space. I consider the team's draft selection on the first two days as precious capital and don't want Gutekunst to spend money on a free agent and an early rounder at safety next offseason. The roster has some other holes to fill as well.

Well we want isn't what we get. I would consider using a Day 1 pick on a safety.

I would argue the Packers need a ballhawk at the safety position.

A playmaker patrolling the backend will add another dimension at a controlled cost.
 
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Well we want isn't what we get. I would consider using a Day 1 pick on a safety.

Even if the Packers spend a first rounder on a safety they would either have to re-sign Amos or spend money on another free agent to bench Savage for next season.
 

gopkrs

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Even if the Packers spend a first rounder on a safety they would either have to re-sign Amos or spend money on another free agent to bench Savage for next season.
Why is it all or nothing? Savage can still be productive. Maybe more productive. Without starting. Somebody took Abernathy from the practice squad. I was hoping to see more of him.
 

McKnowledge

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Even if the Packers spend a first rounder on a safety they would either have to re-sign Amos or spend money on another free agent to bench Savage for next season.

I think Amos and Savage might have burner accounts on this forum.

They'e playing fast and furious.
 
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Why is it all or nothing? Savage can still be productive. Maybe more productive. Without starting. Somebody took Abernathy from the practice squad. I was hoping to see more of him.

I'm not suggesting the Packers should start Savage next season no matter what but they would have to find two starting safeties for him to benched in 2023. That's a difficult task to achieve.

As a side note, he has been playing significantly better as of late making me feel more comfortable with him being one of the starters next year.
 

milani

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I'm not suggesting the Packers should start Savage next season no matter what but they would have to find two starting safeties for him to benched in 2023. That's a difficult task to achieve.

As a side note, he has been playing significantly better as of late making me feel more comfortable with him being one of the starters next year.
Lions may be in better shape on their OL than the Vikes were. Other than that Minnesota had all the horses on offense and did not get it done. If Detroit does not make those mistakes this will be quite a game.
 

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