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I called it ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Hauschild, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Well, when you put it THAT way, it doesn't sound so bad. I don't think you'd get an argument from me that his numbers drop off in December, because any QB that's played 20 years has a LOT of Decembers to analyze, and has probably been surrounded by more than a few "suspect" teammates and coaches.

    However, you've really got an axe to grind with Brett Favre and the reason seems to be that because Aaron Rodgers isn't fully accepted by Packer Nation, you feel it is justifiable to drag Brett Favre thru the mud. I guess I've never understood this type of mentality, but yours certainly isn't uncommon these days.
     
  2. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    That is all I am saying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am not trying to drag him threw the mud..I have posted it numerous times he was playing at a MVP level...Even said I wanted him on the Packers still...But nooooooooooo still not good enough..

    Why is it when I say one little negative thing about Brett people blow it up to mean I think he is worse than the devil?

    I can be critical of him and besides he is the q/b of the team I freaking hate..But according to you and others I can not say one negative word about him, and I am suppose to gobble his dna..
     
  3. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Well, everybody is different, I guess. I happen to like Brett Favre more than I like an entity (something that is really basically a figment of our imaginations) in the Packers. To each his own.

    I must say, however, that you did your best to portray Brett Favre in December as the worst rendition of Randy Wright or Blair Kiel.

    I'll stand by my assertion that the OPPONENT [ultimately] determines Favre's numbers not the COLD.
     
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I would like to see the ratings of those defenses to prove it..
     
  5. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    I'm not disputing the factual statistics ... However what I am disputing is when those same stats are used to "justify" that Favre has a "December Slump" ... Which was what started this debate in the first place ...

    I just don't look at the stats as the "End all and be all" ... Far from it ... I've stated time and again that stats are to viewed within a context ...

    Yes according to the "Stats" Favre's worst month is December and October (just because there are 12 games less shouldn't make them "obselete", however when you actually add the October stats as well, the arguement holds even less merit ...)

    I've never said that you said Favre "sucked", not once, however I am arguing the usage you are applying to the same stats I'm seeing, which is why I am more inclined to believe we are arguing semantics here more than anything (because you have a preference to play "Devils Advocate" haha) ...

    Also if you are going to tell me that Big Ben and Warner are having increasing stats in December, you also have to take into account the rapid decline in both of their stats from October to November ...

    - The only reason I only posted December was because we were discussing the issue of having a "December Slump" ... - Don't go broaden it now to also include October and November please ...

    As to the "majority" ... please look again ... Actually only 4 (factual 5) of those QB's you showed first had an increase, and one only an increase in ratings going from November to December from 87.0 to 87.1 (it's not a decrease I'll give you that heh) ...

    Again, context ... initially in the other thread you were saying that Favre had worse stats, according to his seasonal average, now that arguement has changed, - again withholding the actual context that the decline in ratings is infact across the boards of almost all the "Top Tier" quarterbacks in the league (yeah, I forgot to include Big Ben and Warner), which actually suggest that maybe it's not such an uncommon thing and maybe it has more to do with the actual games played in that month, and also the fact that it is the end of the regular season, more than indivicual quarterbacks having difficulties with performing personally ...
     
  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    How did I change anything?

    Lost me

    His tds drop, his int go up

    and stop with the October crap

    if he had the same amount of attempts as in other months based on his average for October his tds would be more than Dec and his ints would be less

    But you cant use it because the sample size is not the same..

    Thats like saying the Packers never win 5 games in Oct..( when they only play 4) thats an example not a fact, just trying to prove a point..
     
  7. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Just proving my point that the cold ( December normally = cold games) does not affect certain q/b
     
  8. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Oh really ? ...

    Warner:

    November 2009:
    GP 4 / 3 W 1 L / Cmp% 68.9 / 11 Td 5 Int / Rate 103.5 / Yds/G 261.5

    December 2009:
    GP 4 / 3 W 1 L / Cmp% 62.2 / 6 Td 3 Int / Rate 90.5 / Yds/G 251.0


    November 2008:
    GP 5 / 3 W 2 L / Cmp% 66.2 / 10 Td 5 Int / Rate 96.0 / Yds/G 330.4

    December 2008:
    GP 4 / 2 W 2 L / Cmp% 61.9 / 6 Td 3 Int / Rate 87.5 / Yds/G 210.5


    November 2007:
    GP 4 / 2 W 2 L / Cmp% 60.6 / 7 Td 5 Int / Rate 87.4 / Yds/G 281.5

    December 2007:
    GP 5 / 3 W 2 L / Cmp% 62.4 / 14 Td 9 Int / Rate 88.5 / Yds/G 281.6

    Hmmmm ... Warners stats have been steadily declining going from November to December in each season ...


    Rothlisberger:


    November 2009:
    GP 3 / 1 W 2 L / Cmp% 65.8 / 6 Td 4 Int / Rate 90.1 / Yds/G 268.3

    December 2009
    GP 4 / 2 W 2 L / Cmp% 60.7 / 6 Td 2 Int / Rate 99.6 / Yds/G 310.3

    (A 500+ yard game works wonders !!! But rating wise it's an improvement ... all though the Cmp% went seriously down ...)


    November 2008:
    GP 5 / 4 W 1 L / Cmp% 61.1 / 3 Td 5 Int / Rate 73.6 / Yds/G 212.0

    December 2008
    GP 4 / 3 W 1 L / Cmp% 57.9 / 4 Td 3 Int / Rate 80.4 / Yds/G 222.3


    November 2007:
    GP 4 / 3 W 1 L / Cmp% 71.9 / 8 Td 3 Int / Rate 113.5 / Yds/G 211.8

    December 2007
    GP 4 / 2 W 2 L / Cmp% 61.2 / 9 Td 2 Int / Rate 99.6 / Yds/G 193.5


    I'd say that the cold weather (statistically) also affects Rothlisberger as well ... - If you look at the Cmp% (for one) that declines almost entirely across the board of quarterbacks ... - Just like the Yds/G stat does ...

    It's a general tendency across the boards of any quarterback actually, well Romo this season being the exception LOL ...

    Perhaps there is indeed more to those above stats than just what meets the eye ... Which has been my point all along ...
     
  9. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Quentius - yer wasting yer time. These types of guys have let envy and hatred consume them and are unable to process information in a reasonable manner. No matter what you present, the data will be parsed in such a way as to disprove your theories.

    However, keep posting because I enjoy you taking these guys to the woodshed in a non-violent, factual manner.
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Using only certain years to valid a point?

    Use the ENTIRE body of work for December compared to Nov or Oct and then you have a better sample..Not just 2 years..

    After all if we just used Bretts 05 and 06 # wow he sucks






    I am seriously done with this..
     
  11. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Yup thats me...

    I hate Brett to the point I want him on the Packers and I said he was having a MVP year

    Yup thats hate all right
     
  12. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    I think it IS you, really. Because you can only go for so long before you lose it and hop aboard your Favre-bashing train.

    Look, the guy hurt your feelings by leaving, but he had no choice other than rolling over and letting corporate run all over him. We all GET it, but some choose not to want to GET OVER it. The problem is, envy usually lasts a lifetime, so I don't see you changing yer stripes anytime soon.
     
  13. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    I cannot honestly believe nor understand you just said that ...

    Because that would mean we should also bring in Favre's TOTAL stats when playing in subzero temperature games, and not only just the recent seasons (4-5 seasons) ...

    How is Favre's TOTAL record in games when they have been playing in subzero temperature ?

    Again, context ... - You can't apply some parametres and then compare statistics, when you are not going to be using the same parametres on others ...
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I see sarcasm is not your strong suit
     
  15. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    I've gotta admire your determination. :)
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I even said I didnt want to play the Viks in the playoffs, but yet I am a hater

    Got ya
     
  17. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Above wasn't sarcastic ... And that was what I was replying to ... As you very well know :)



    The above was your sarcastic comment ... - And the one I did NOT reply to ... - Again ... You know this ...


    Obviously you - yet again - take things out of context, in your penchance to play "Devils Advocate" ??? (Read: Sarcasm)
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    wondering if some one will post the ranking of the pass defenses that Haus claims is the reason for the drop off

    Now if I recall right, Haus claimed it had to the ranking of the team "at the time Brett played them"

    I gave my view on why and he keeps insisting that his is the correct assessment but doesnt give any facts other than his word...

    Are suppose to take him for his word????
     
  19. A-Rod_is_God

    A-Rod_is_God Cheesehead

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    Quientus is an obvious troll
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Not at all....We weeded those out over the last few weeks
     
  21. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    I must applaud your eloquence ... - Or is it simply because you are having difficulties discussing matters properly or just running short on worthwhile comments that you have to make such a "bold" statement that offers absolutely nothing to the current discussion other than showing that you actually have nothing to say ? ...

    Seems to me, of the two of us, you are trolling alot more than me ...
     
  22. A-Rod_is_God

    A-Rod_is_God Cheesehead

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    Okay Quientus. You want legitimate contribution? Here goes -
    You can hardly use Completion percentage in your discussion, because you only really see a difference of 3 or 4 percentage between months. With the number of passes that QB's throw in a typical game, 3 or 4 percent amounts to 1, maybe 2 passes. Not a huge difference.

    In reference to your accusation that I am a troll, the statement
    hardly qualifies as troll
     
  23. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Ah once again a poster who clearly shows that he doesn't really read a post before replying to it ...

    Did you even take the time to look at the external link and look at the statistics for the mentioned quarterbacks ? Let alone the other quarterbacks in the league ? Did you even read the initial posts in this thread ? ...

    I even wrote that the Cmp% stat was just ONE stat (among others) that was declining ...

    You don't see the tendency across the board ? ... That pretty much EVERY quarterback and especially the "Top Tier" ones, have Declining stats across the board in almost every category in the last few months of the year ?

    You are taking something way out of context ... and thus really not contributing to the discussion ... - But I can't really say I'm surprised ...
     
  24. A-Rod_is_God

    A-Rod_is_God Cheesehead

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    These are stats that you posted, and attempted to interpret
    You saw stats decline "across the board." The only consistent decline that I see is completion percentage. But I already established that 3 or 4 percentage points equates to maybe 1 to 2 passes per game, basically negating that stat. But I suppose that there is another declining stat - INTERCEPTIONS. Which is grounds enough to throw your "all QB's experience a decline in stats from Nov. --> Dec." argument straight out the window.

    But I suppose you were correct in your assumption that I did not read every post from all 13 pages of this thread, so I did go back and find that you are not a Packers fan. This is further evidence that you are in fact a troll. Only a troll would join a forum for a team that he doesn't support only to belittle other posters, stir controversy, and attempt to anger people.
     
  25. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Do yourself a favour ... and Click Here ... Then go look at most the "Top Tier" quarterbacks in the league year for year ... - Then compare their statistics accordingly ... (Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History btw)

    That was what I meant by "External Link" ... But I guess that totally eluded you ... My mistake for actually thinking that some people here would actually perhaps do some "digging" and "research" on their own as well ...

    I have in fact been saying all along that stats alone doesn't tell the entire story ... Something - yet again (surprise) seem to have eluded you ... or simply because you just don't understand ... - I honestly can't tell which ...

    You can ask alot of other posters on these forums whether or not I'm a troll or not ... - And I think the answer will surprise you ...

    Yet again you have just made a prime example of a poster (with very few posts actually - and with a rather conspicous tag as well ...) who doesn't really read what posts he is replying to, but more only see and read what you want into a comment, totally disregarding the context in which a comment was given, for the sole purpose of trying to berate and namecall, which incidently is what a "Troll" does (imagine that ???) ...

    - And I actually like Packers and have been supporting them for quite a few years, just I'm not a "hardcore" one like you seem to be, which is why I don't call myself a "Packers Fan", but more an "NFL Fan, with a few select preferred teams I root for more than others", because I view the games a little more different than you seem to do ...
     

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