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Grossman Bashing:

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by BearPerspective, Jan 28, 2007.

  1. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    I hear alot of trash talking from the GB Favre-o-philes about this guy, but lets have a look at his numbers when compared to a certain "Hall of Fame" QB this season.

    G Gs Att Cmp % Yds YPA Lg Td Int 20+ 40+ Rate
    Rex Grossman:16 16 480 262 54.6 3193 6.65 62 23 20 47 8 73.9


    Brett Favre: 16 16 613 343 56.0 3885 6.34 82 18 18 49 8 72.7


    Well it looks to me like Grossman is clearly the better QB. He has a better rating, more yards per attempt, more TDs. Favre only has more attempts and more yards, and a worse TD/INT ratio. Oh yeah, and Grossman didnt have a "Pro Bowl" reciever to work with. If Grossman is so terrible, how do you all get by saying that you hope Favre comes back next season to lead you all to the promise land? Grossman's first year starting, and he played better ball.
     
  2. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Oh geez.........the guy stays healthy for ONE season, and he's suddenly better then Brett Favre. Typical Bears fan garbage.
    Lets see........Favre has been playing CONSISTANTLY better then ol' Rex for HOW many years? How many NFL MYP awards has Rex won? Where on the all time TD pass list is Rex?
    Favre has started in 237 straight NFL games.
    This past season is the FIRST time a Bears QB has started all 16 games in MANY seasons.
    Trying to compare Grossman with Favre is just plain lame.
    Maybe Rex FINALLY had a season that was at least CLOSE to an NFL QB standards. I'd say it's about time!
    The Bears "D" is why they are where they are now. Not cause Rex is SOOOO great!
    Why don't you compare Rex'es stats to Peyton Mannings numbers this year, then get back to me.
     
  3. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Hey, if you want too keep living in the 90s with Brett at the helm, Im all for it. I just find it funny that you guys trash Grossman so much for his performance, yet this season he played better than Brett and you all are clamoring for his return. You dont see the irony?
     
  4. PackerLegend

    PackerLegend Cheesehead

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    If you think Grossman is a better QB then Brett Favre you should stop watching football because you don't know a thing.
     
  5. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    So are the numbers I posted incorrect? It appears to me his numbers are superior AND he has his team in the superbowl. What am I missing?
     
  6. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I listen every so often to Chicago radio. If i had a dollar for every time in the last few years that i heard BEARS fans calling for Grossman's head, i'd be rich! Heck, did you watch the last Bears/Packers game??? The Bears "fans" were BOOOOING Grossman and calling for Griese!
    There is NO irony in wanting Favre back. He's BETTER then Grossman, period. Favre had a makeshift offensive line, injured WR's (EXCEPT for Driver) NO TE's to speak of. If Grossman had those conditions, he would have collapsed.
    The O line was GREATLY improved, some WR's stepped up, and the last several weeks of the season were doing great. Had they made the playoffs, i think Favre would have showed you just how much better he IS then Rex. (Just like he did the last week of the regular season.) Or weren't you watching that game?
    Favre STILL (in his advanced age) is better then Grossman. If you can't admit that, your just looking through rose colored glasses.
    Trust me......if i thought Favre was worse now then Rex, i'd admit it. Truth is though, he's not.
     
  7. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    It seems to me that it is you all viewing Favre through rose colored lenses.

    His TD/INT ratio was dead even.

    How many 100+ Qb rating games did he have?

    He is more experienced, yet had worse numbers than the 1st year starter Grossman. Grossman's WRs were injured this season as well. Both Berrian and Bradley missed games and Muhammad (like Driver) was the only one to stay healthy.

    Perhaps you think Dez Clark is a good TE?

    How many times was Rex sacked as compared to Favre?

    ...Sorry guys, but the numbers dont lie. Rex had a better season than Brett.
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Packers fans want Brett back because we all know (assuming) Brett gives the Packers a better chance to win over any QB the Packers have on the roster currently.

    Who said the Bears would be better with Brett? I don't think anyone did, so I don't know why you compare them against one another when talking about fans wanting Brett to play another year and saying Grossman sucks.

    Again, Packer fans want Brett to play another year because he gives the team the best chance to win.

    People trash Grossman because he is inconsistent and forces his team catch up to cover his mistakes. The guy played some fantastic games no doubt, but on the same note he played some downright awful games.


    You want to throw some stats around? Find the junction of the game those INT's were thrown for each player.
    Who was making daring passes to bring his team back?
    vs
    Who was making daring passes while his team was in the lead allowing the other team to catch up?
     
  9. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    lol no **** sherlock, wheres brett playing this weekend vs where is rex playing? OBVIOUSLY he had a better season HES ON A BETTER TEAM!
    :rotflmao:
     
  10. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Well, Grossman had 4 ints vs. Arizona when well behind.
    3 vs. Miami when well behind
    3 vs. the Patriots also while trailing
    3 vs. Green Bay when behind.
    2 vs. Minnesota (1 in each game) while they were trailing

    So that takes care of 15 of the 20 off the top of my head.

    How 'bout them apples? :rotflmao:

    Let's see Favre's.
     
  11. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    So that makes him better, huh? He had ONE half decent (or as KMAC said "surprisingly average") season, and you make it sound like he's Joe Montana, Dan Marino, and Johnny Unitas combined! Geez! The guy is below average at best.
    Lets see........Grossman's final QB rating was 73.9
    Favre's final QB rating was 72.7
    Yeah.......thats sure a HUGE difference!
    And Favre is 37!
    Favre's best seasons are behind him, but he's STILL good. You make it sound like he's Cade McNown or something.
    There were 22 QB's with a better rating then Grossman.
    Man......give it a rest! Your team is in the Super Bowl, and you waste your time coming here and TRYING to make a point that Rex is better then Favre?
    IF Favre comes back next year, and the Pack pick up a few players, i think we can give the Bears a run for their money next year.
    Why don't you just enjoy this time while you can, and stop making yourself look foolish by comparing Rex to Brett!
     
  12. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    If posting statistics that you all dont like is "making myself look foolish" then I guess Im guilty as charged. No game this weekend, eh?

    Anyway, there's all these polls going on a bout "Is Rex the worst SB QB ever?" and lots of negative talk like "The Bears are winning in spite of rex" when at the same time, there is this Favre love fest going on, hoping that he returns (not just here, in the media as well) so I just thought Id point out the double standard. Is that so wrong?

    EDIT: How is it that Grossman is "below average at best" and Favre is "still good" when Ive clearly refuted your claims?
     
  13. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Didn't REX also have the most games with a rating below 40???
    I didn't see you mentioning THAT record.
    Also, Favre threw for 3885 yards, Rexxy for 3193.
     
  14. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Yes, Favre had more yards, MORE ATTEMPTS and LESS YARDS PER attempt. Good call.

    Ive posted the games with Rex's below 40 ratings.
     
  15. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Like i said.....Favre is 37!!! Rex is a KID! He SHOULD be doing better! Favre STILL has a rifle arm, even in his advanced age. Compare Favre's numbers in his first 3 years starting to Rex.
    Then.......we will see where Rex is say 12 years from now. I doubt it if he's still playing.
    Now.......I never said Rex is the worst QB ever starting in the SB. I think there were MANY that were as bad or worse then him. I don't think Dilfer was "great". Or Mark Rypen (not sure if i spelled that right) and many others i can't even think of!
    This is a PACKER SITE! Would you expect anything LESS then a Favre "love fest" here??? After all, he was a major part of the Packers returning to SB winners and MANY playoff games, AND many years of whipping up on the Bears! Of COURSE the majority of people here admire the guy. What did you expect???
    If i went to a Bears site, i would EXPECT them to have a "love fest" for Urlacher! He's a great player for crying out loud. And even though you won't admit it, Favre has a pretty darn good track record against your team. I bet that has something to do with your dislike of him.
     
  16. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Are you telling me its wrong to compare the current numbers of QBs from rival teams or am I missing something?
     
  17. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I didn't ask how many INT's they each threw during games they LOST. I'm asking AT THE TIME of the INT, what was the score? Then, did that INT cause them to get behind? Did the other team score off that INT and how many points?

    If you want to use stats, be accurate an thorough, thats all I'm asking. I love stats, but I'm not ignorant to think they tell the whole story when looking at just a few of the end result numbers instead of what came FROM those stats.

    For instance, a QB could be the most accurate QB of all time, but if his supporting staff drops a lot or tips a lot of them, that hurts the QB stats. Did you account for the drops/tips?

    It's a little harder to throw face value stats down for QB vs QB than it is say RB vs RB in my opinion. And the stats you've thrown down are dilluded. I'm not trying to say that when you do it accurate and thorough, I don't know, (I don't have the time for doing all that is rquired to say that, meaning compile all the stats) but I do know saying one QB is better than another based on the stats you've provided is not accurate. There is sooo much more to being a QB than your ending stats can tell.


    Know what I mean? Do you really think Brett wouldn't have had better numbers if he had a feared defense? or a feared special teams? Personally, I think Brett would have lit some **** up. Why? Look at his stats ten years ago when he actually had a feared defense and a feared special teams.



    Try comparing that.
    Rex with a feared defense an special teams
    vs
    Brett with a feared defense and special teams

    Rex 2006
    att 480
    comp 262
    comp% 54.6
    yds 3193
    yds/pass 6.65
    td 23
    int 20
    rating 73.9
    No MVP, no Pro Bowl.


    Brett 1996
    att 543
    comp 325
    comp% 59.9
    yards 3899
    yds/pass 7.2
    td 39
    int 13
    rating 95.8
    MVP and Pro Bowl starter




    That's not a fair comparison, of course. But, neither is the one you are presenting because of how different each team is. Bears are a SB team, the Packers aren't even a playoff team.

    Kind of interesting though isn't it? Meaning, go back to when Brett had a solid D an solid ST an compare that to Rex who has a solid D an solid ST. Brett blows the doors off Rex. Should be noted the Packers has two good TE's where I think the Bears only have one?
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    I didn't say it was wrong.
    Lets see if a week from now, if Rex implodes and costs you the SB trophy if you will still think Rex is great.
    You know, i EXPECT you to back YOUR QB. (Did you do so the last few seasons when Rex easn't doing so good???)
    Don't you expect us as TRUE Packer fans to back ours?
    What am i missing?
    WE for the most part, back Favre, as he has a proven record of what he CAN and HAS done in the past. And for a 37 year old (which is VERY old for NFL QB's) and a guy that has started 237 straight games, he's still preety darn good in my eyes.
     
  19. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    THANK YOU Zero!
    I think you made some good points here.
    Yeas, Grossman is in the SB this year, Favre isn't. But there were MANY things that caused this. NOT just "Because Grossman is a better QB then Favre!"
     
  20. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Yes, at the time of these INTs, the Bears WERE BEHIND, that's what you asked and what I answered. Some INTs put them further behind.
    EDIT: Notice the Minnesota games, he had 4 ints total, but I counted only two, while they were trailing.


    I can think of at least 5 grossman INTs right now that came either off tips at the line or off receivers hands. Grossman, as one of the shortest QBs in the league has tons of balls batted at the line, no denying that, I think in comparison Grossman probably has more of those type INTS than brett.


    So that's the depth of your rebuttal? "You cant tell from the stats"
    How about countering with some meaningful numbers?

    So, Brett of 10 years ago is better than Rex of today. No kidding. What kind of comparison is that? Brett was what, a 4 year starter at the time and now he is on the downside of his career. Of what relevance is that to Brett vs. Rex in year 2006? At this point in their careers, and this season specifically Rex outplayed him. The numbers show this.
     
  21. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Yeah.... stat wise Rex did. Big deal! I still would take OLD FAVRE over young Rex. Lets see how Rex does NEXT year, and if you still will be singing his praises.
    Comparing a 37 year old QB that doesn't have the supporting cast (like a great D and special teams unit) to back him up and a young kid who does isn't exactly fair either, wouldn't you say?
    Peyton Manning had a QB rating of 101! And he threw 31 td's and only 9 int's! AND 4397 yards! Think ol' Rex stacks up against him???
    You arn't playing against Favre in the SB next week. Unfortunatly for you, it's Manning!
    Guess we will see next Sunday!
     
  22. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    I still think Favre is a capable QB. What I dont like are double standards, and Im just pointing one out. If Rex blows the SB out his ***, he has still shown enough potential in my eyes to be a starter and he will be one next year as well. Im not saying he's a HOFer or anything, just pointing out some numbers.
    The Bears are a very young team in good cap shape as well, if the Bears lose the SB they are still contenders.
     
  23. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Not if they lose just a few key players.
    There is no double standard here. You are trying to compare a young versus an old QB, with 2 very different teams. Grossman has done just enough NOT to screw it up for his team. Favre had to try to do too much, because he did NOT have the supporting team around him to flourish. To just go on stats alone is not fair. If it's just the stats, then your team doesn't stand a chance against Manning next week. But that is why they play the games.
    And trust me.....if Rex DOES "blow the SB out his ***", there will be more Bears fans calling for his head then you can count. I listened to sports radio out of Chicago after the last Packer/Bear game, and just about all the callers were wanting him benched in favor of Griese. And THAT was a meaningless game for the Bears! Think of what will happen if it happens in the SB! Trust me........the Rex bandwagon will sink faster then the Titanic!
     
  24. BearPerspective

    BearPerspective Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I guess we will. Rex didnt compare to the great Matt Hasselbeck or the great Drew Brees either, but guess what?
     
  25. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Bear, I think I missed your point here.

    What is it exactly? sorry i missed it :(
     

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