Fire Capers

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Fire Teddy first and foremost. Cut off the head and the rest will die.

Maybe, but I'd only do that on the stipulation that the next GM keep MM. Yup that's right, MM needs to stay. Even though I got mad at him today and think he's a bit unwilling to tweak the offense to more zone read looks for Hundley, Rodgers is still going to be back next year barring any major setback from the injury or surgery we don't know about. So far, he and MM together still give us our best shot to win it all. I think it's purely Dom Capers and Ron Zook holding the team back.

 

[swhitset]

Maybe, but I'd only do that on the stipulation that the next GM keep MM. Yup that's right, MM needs to stay. Even though I got mad at him today and think he's a bit unwilling to tweak the offense to more zone read looks for Hundley, Rodgers is still going to be back next year barring any major setback from the injury or surgery we don't know about. So far, he and MM together still give us our best shot to win it all. I think it's purely Dom Capers and Ron Zook holding the team back.

Finally a post from you I can agree with lol.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

OT-Can anyone of our mods get a hold of Guinness and find out if we set the world record for longest chatroom thread?

Guinness is just waiting for the thread to finally end, that is predicted to be in 2025 and 987 pages.

 

[rmontro]

I disagree that the whole team is bad without Rodgers... but it needs at least an average QB. At this point that is not Hundley. Several people have given the Vikings as an example of a team that is doing ok after having lost its starter.... well that team is built on it's defense.

It's not that the whole team is bad, obviously some players are better than others. But at this point it would be difficult to say that the team as a whole without Rodgers is anything beyond average (or mediocre). You're right though, the Packers are a passing team, and they need a capable QB to be effective. Sometimes when you lose your starting quarterback, it's just going to be bad news. Some teams don't even have a top starting quarterback, let alone a backup one.

The Vikings are built on defense, but that just begs the question why has it been so difficult for this team to put together a good defense?

 

[gonzozab]

Maybe, but I'd only do that on the stipulation that the next GM keep MM. Yup that's right, MM needs to stay. Even though I got mad at him today and think he's a bit unwilling to tweak the offense to more zone read looks for Hundley, Rodgers is still going to be back next year barring any major setback from the injury or surgery we don't know about. So far, he and MM together still give us our best shot to win it all. I think it's purely Dom Capers and Ron Zook holding the team back.

I don't disagree with you at all on this, but usually a GM change means a coaching change as well.

 

[Darryl Tincknell]

Nobody on this team gets a pass....there is not ONE strong unit on this team now that AR is out...The jury on Hundley is still out but he sure looked unprepared today...Jones looked good today...ran hard and decisively..Montgomery is not a RB...could be a great WR core but are hamstrung by a beat up OL and inexperienced QB...TE is a mystery to me...picked up two quality pro TE's in Bennett and Kendricks and it's like they're not even on the field...you would think the new QB would rely on the TE's but they're invisible in this offense..OL could also be a strength of this team but injuries have decimated them into a unit scrambling to run and pass block...Bakhtiari will not be at full strength all year...he was hampered by this hamstring thing since training camp...Bulaga in and out...Taylor hurt....Evans way past his prime...I don't think Daniels is playing at full strength yet either but Kenny Clark looks like a force,both are solid...Lowry ok,Dial up and down,Brooks kinda nonexistent...bottom line is they get very little pressure on the QB...Matthews has his moments but his full bore style gets him out of position more than in position to make a big play...Perry battling injuries but probably their best pass rusher...ILB do OK against the run but are woeful in pass coverage...the middle of the field and intermediante routes are routinely open...almost unbelievably open....and then to our secondary...talk about a weak unit....two great plays made by Randall and House with textbook coverage on his interception but beyond that it's shocking how open receivers are against the Packers...miscommunication and poor tackling are the mainstays of the Packer secondary...Ginn looked like Antonio Brown today... for all the attention the Packers have put into the latest drafts on trying to improve the unit I think they are getting worse...What's the answer? I have NO idea but I do know you will get the same results if something doesn't change soon whether that's changes in the front office,coaching staff or both. Rodgers is the best player in football hands down but a TEAM shouldn't go into the tank when one man goes down. Many teams have to resort to their backup QB and thrive...the Vikes and Bears are just two of them (among others) I don't want to panic because there is a lot of football left but things are getting a little bleak at 1265 Lombardi and Rodgers isn't around to bail them out

 

[Dblbogey]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we fire Capers.

 

[P-E-Z]

I still believe losing #12 will should finally put the spotlight fully on the defense. Today was a classic example of needing your defense to step up and win a game and they couldn't. Capers and his defense can no longer ride the coattails of #12 and hide in the shadows. It's your time Dom. Hope you have retirement plans.

The Defense was on the field far too long and got gassed because kept going 3 and out. We were in the game till the 4th quarter. D is not to blame.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Defense was on the field far too long and got gassed because kept going 3 and out. We were in the game till the 4th quarter. D is not to blame.

Is that what happened to start the 2nd half? The defense was gassed already?

Just when do we start blaming the Defense for giving up 3rd and longs? Not making tackles? Guys wide open? When the offense scores 40+ points and it doesn't matter how bad the defense it?

I'm seriously sick of hearing excuses for the last 7 years about why the defense wasn't "that bad", especially given the draft resources the Packers have pumped into that defense.

 

[Starr To Dowler]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we fire Capers.

Just like that, out of a clear bue sky? Shouldn't we all talk about it a bit first?

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Just like that, out of a clear bue sky? Shouldn't we all talk about it a bit first?

We have a thread for that already.

 

[P-E-Z]

Is that what happened to start the 2nd half? The defense was gassed already?

Just when do we start blaming the Defense for giving up 3rd and longs? Not making tackles? Guys wide open? When the offense scores 40+ points and it doesn't matter how bad the defense it?

I'm seriously sick of hearing excuses for the last 7 years about why the defense wasn't "that bad", especially given the draft resources the Packers have pumped into that defense.

We held them to 3 field goals in the 3rd. Offense 3 and outs. Lost time possession 37 to 23. For defense it was like playing 5 quarters.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We held them to 3 field goals in the 3rd. Offense 3 and outs. Lost time possession 37 to 23. For defense it was like playing 5 quarters.

Again, is "holding another team" to 9 points in a quarter acceptable to you? 10 points in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line....and all because the defense was "gassed"? How about pointing to a defense that had one sack, gave up 330 yards in the air and 160 on the ground and say "yeah, our defense just isn't that good."

The 2 interceptions for the defense were their 2 highlights. Without them, guessing at least 7-14 more points put up by the Saints.

Last year the excuse was "too many injuries" on the defense to perform well and now people want to say "that was a good team that made our defense look bad". SMH

 

[rodell330]

You can't continue giving up first downs when it's third and over 10. Yes the offense had some 3 and outs....but the defense failed as well. No excuses for getting gashed week in week out on 3rd and longs. You cannot always expect that playing Nickle is the best thing as well. If you find a damn ilb who can run you won't have to play so much Nickle and get run on. Dom Capers is easily the most disliked person in Green Bay.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You can't continue giving up first downs when it's third and over 10. Yes the offense had some 3 and outs....but the defense failed as well. No excuses for getting gashed week in week out on 3rd and longs. You cannot always expect that playing Nickle is the best thing as well. If you find a damn ilb who can run you won't have to play so much Nickle and get run on. Dom Capers is easily the most disliked person in Green Bay.

Capers is the easiest scapegoat so of course he's disliked. It's really easy, and comforting, to imagine a world in which replacing Capers will magically make Randall, Rollins, and Lowry into great defensive players and also find the fountain of youth for Brooks. It's much scarier to imagine a world in which the personnel issues are the problem and it will take a few seasons to turn things around. Capers isn't the best but he's far from the incompetent buffoon many appear to think he is.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

I don't disagree with you at all on this, but usually a GM change means a coaching change as well.

Which is why I'm hesitant to do it unless Murphy put specific strings attached to the job that directed that MM must be kept. We need a new DC and STC no question but a total coaching change at this point would be bad.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Capers is the easiest scapegoat so of course he's disliked. It's really easy, and comforting, to imagine a world in which replacing Capers will magically make Randall, Rollins, and Lowry into great defensive players and also find the fountain of youth for Brooks. It's much scarier to imagine a world in which the personnel issues are the problem and it will take a few seasons to turn things around. Capers isn't the best but he's far from the incompetent buffoon many appear to think he is.

While I agree with what you are saying, what does that tell you about the Packers current organization? They are settling for a DC that "isn't the best", but is adequate. Explains why "almost making the Super Bowl" is fine.

Losing AR was a gut punch for me, but one good thing can come out of it. That one thing would be for an organization to realize that they really aren't as solid in the areas that they need to be and that starts with Dom Capers IMO.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

While I agree with what you are saying, what does that tell you about the Packers current organization? They are settling for a DC that "isn't the best", but is adequate. Explains why "almost making the Super Bowl" is fine.

Losing AR was a gut punch for me, but one good thing can come out of it. That one thing would be for an organization to realize that they really aren't as solid in the areas that they need to be and that starts with Dom Capers IMO.

I gotta disagree. I think McCarthy has done less with more and, if you think Capers is a huge problem, then logically McCarthy is STILL the bigger issue because he's the guy that has kept Capers around.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Capers is the easiest scapegoat so of course he's disliked. It's really easy, and comforting, to imagine a world in which replacing Capers will magically make Randall, Rollins, and Lowry into great defensive players and also find the fountain of youth for Brooks. It's much scarier to imagine a world in which the personnel issues are the problem and it will take a few seasons to turn things around. Capers isn't the best but he's far from the incompetent buffoon many appear to think he is.

The problem is his defense was getting gashed on simple screen passes on 3rd and long yesterday with plenty of opportunities to get off the field. If you're going to give a young inexperienced QB some confidence, you gotta give him good field position, even more so cuz you're likely not going to get consistent 90 yard drives out of him like you will with Rodgers.

You should be able to practice stopping screen passes during the week and if you don't, that's on the DC. I'm not buying that this unit even without Burnett isn't talented enough to be more stingy. It's Capers and Micah Hyde thriving in Buffalo is proving it.

 

[JLW_51]

12 is the human deodorant, especially with the Packers defense http://lastwordonprofootball.com/20...-just-isnt-good-enough-without-aaron-rodgers/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I gotta disagree. I think McCarthy has done less with more and, if you think Capers is a huge problem, then logically McCarthy is STILL the bigger issue because he's the guy that has kept Capers around.

I think MM is a pretty good offensive coach, too conservative at times, but otherwise the results have been good and yes, a lot of that is aided by #12.

But I agree with you and have said it in this thread before, I do hold MM responsible for holding on to Capers too long, if that is MM sole decision.....which I am not clear on.

 

[JLW_51]

I think MM is a pretty good offensive coach, too conservative at times, but otherwise the results have been good and yes, a lot of that is aided by #12.

But I agree with you and have said it in this thread before, I do hold MM responsible for holding on to Capers too long, if that is MM sole decision.....which I am not clear on.

It is going to come down to, IMO, him having to make a move on Capers, if not, I know it is shocking to read, he will join Capers. This has gone on way too long. How long has this 3rd down defense gone on?! For as long as I can remember, under Capers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The problem is his defense was getting gashed on simple screen passes on 3rd and long yesterday with plenty of opportunities to get off the field. If you're going to give a young inexperienced QB some confidence, you gotta give him good field position, even more so cuz you're likely not going to get consistent 90 yard drives out of him like you will with Rodgers.

You should be able to practice stopping screen passes during the week and if you don't, that's on the DC. I'm not buying that this unit even without Burnett isn't talented enough to be more stingy. It's Capers and Micah Hyde thriving in Buffalo is proving it.

Stopping screen passes is about tackling. You CAN'T practice tackling, that's not allowed in the CBA. So how exactly does the DC teach that? And I'm sorry, Hyde thriving in Buffalo proves nothing. The Packers didn't let him go because he was bad, the team let him go because Dix and Burnett were better than him last year and the team didn't need to spend the money on a third safety; how could the team know Dix would get worse this year?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think MM is a pretty good offensive coach, too conservative at times, but otherwise the results have been good and yes, a lot of that is aided by #12.

But I agree with you and have said it in this thread before, I do hold MM responsible for holding on to Capers too long, if that is MM sole decision.....which I am not clear on.

Why is MM a good offensive coach? Look at the Saints game for a terrific example. Brees played awful in the first half and so the Saints changed the offense to throw screen passes and scheme guys open. On the other hand, the Packers kept smashing their heads against the wall and adjusted nothing on offense. So please, aside from coaching Aaron Rodgers, what makes MM a good offensive coach? I could point to other examples, the most egregious being the Bills game which cost the Packers a shot at the Super Bowl.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Stopping screen passes is about tackling. You CAN'T practice tackling, that's not allowed in the CBA. So how exactly does the DC teach that? And I'm sorry, Hyde thriving in Buffalo proves nothing. The Packers didn't let him go because he was bad, the team let him go because Dix and Burnett were better than him last year and the team didn't need to spend the money on a third safety; how could the team know Dix would get worse this year?

Yes he was bad, he was bad cuz Capers's system is bad, so yes it does prove something. And practicing stopping screen passes can still be done without practicing tackling cuz it's also about recognition. Our guys are not being taught to read screen plays.