Cam Achord new ST coach - Fire him

[Heyjoe4]

It might also be one reason why the Packers have struggled to field a top defense over the years.

Interesting thought. Not having a HC overseeing all three teams on game day presents problems. I've mentioned it before, but MLF is the OC. He's forced to make play call decisions while on the clock, meaning he has little time to monitor other aspects of the game, like the defense, or clock management. And to your point, the D hasn't wowed us in a long time, and the Special Teams have been anything but special.

The best time to observe and assesss the perfomance of all three teams is during the game. MLF doesn't operate that way.

And it's at the expense of the Packers' success. IMO SB winners almost always have an elite D. If the HC is disconnected from that in any way, especially on game day, how can he assess the performance of the coordinators? And I assume that during the week most of his focus is on the offense's game plan. What about the D? And who can evealuate the effectivenes of the WHOLE team week to week? Nah, just don't like the HC calling all plays for the O.

 

[milani]

Interesting thought. Not having a HC overseeing all three teams on game day presents problems. I've mentioned it before, but MLF is the OC. He's forced to make play call decisions while on the clock, meaning he has little time to monitor other aspects of the game, like the defense, or clock management. And to your point, the D hasn't wowed us in a long time, and the Special Teams have been anything but special.

The best time to observe and assesss the perfomance of all three teams is during the game. MLF doesn't operate that way.

And it's at the expense of the Packers' success. IMO SB winners almost always have an elite D. If the HC is disconnected from that in any way, especially on game day, how can he assess the performance of the coordinators? And I assume that during the week most of his focus is on the offense's game plan. What about the D? And who can evealuate the effectivenes of the WHOLE team week to week? Nah, just don't like the HC calling all plays for the O.

Yes. There needs to be that " Fix This Now " approach from the head coach, whether in the game or starting Monday morning. You cannot simply delegate like a CEO. The Lombardi Packers knew the wrath of their coach before they even got back to the sideline. The same can be said about Belichick teams.

 

[OldSchool101]

The best time to observe and assesss the perfomance of all three teams is during the game. MLF doesn't operate that way.

And it's at the expense of the Packers' success. IMO SB winners almost always have an elite D. If the HC is disconnected from that in any way, especially on game day, how can he assess the performance of the coordinators? And I assume that during the week most of his focus is on the offense's game plan. What about the D? And who can evealuate the effectivenes of the WHOLE team week to week? Nah, just don't like the HC calling all plays for the O.

Well yes its a delicate balancing act for a HC to play call. That said MLF has had about as good of success as can he expected. I need not remind everyone he’s qualified for Postseason in all but the 2022 season. I think we missed by 1 game? He’s still one of the more successful HC’s since his inception at HC.

 

[rmontro]

The Lombardi Packers knew the wrath of their coach before they even got back to the sideline. The same can be said about Belichick teams.

I guess that's two votes for the wrath approach and two against the "You can't treat athletes like that today" idea.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes. There needs to be that " Fix This Now " approach from the head coach, whether in the game or starting Monday morning. You cannot simply delegate like a CEO. The Lombardi Packers knew the wrath of their coach before they even got back to the sideline. The same can be said about Belichick teams.

Good examples. The teams you mentioned did not wait until half time to make adjustments.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Well yes its a delicate balancing act for a HC to play call. That said MLF has had about as good of success as can he expected. I need not remind everyone he’s qualified for Postseason in all but the 2022 season. I think we missed by 1 game? He’s still one of the more successful HC’s since his inception at HC.

What has most impressed me about MLF is making the transition from Rodgers to Love. That has been impressive.

I would still prefer a conventional hierarchy of HC - OC, DC, and STC, with the respective coordinators calling most of the plays for their squads, and the HC managing the entire game. Changes can be made during the game that way.

 

[rmontro]

What has most impressed me about MLF is making the transition from Rodgers to Love. That has been impressive.

When he wins 13 games with Love, I'll be more impressed.

 

[milani]

I guess that's two votes for the wrath approach and two against the "You can't treat athletes like that today" idea.

That wrath does not have to be direct. It can be implied. Even Holmgren used it on the sideline. Belichick would take a player on the side and just talk to him. Lombardi would spout off in a general way almost as if he was a spectator in the crowd. Ditka was not exactly a relaxed fellow on the sideline either. But whether an individual or group effect it was about elevating the level of play. And it had an effect.

 

[Heyjoe4]

When he wins 13 games with Love, I'll be more impressed.

Agreed. And when he wins a SB with Love, well that's the ultimate test.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That wrath does not have to be direct. It can be implied. Even Holmgren used it on the sideline. Belichick would take a player on the side and just talk to him. Lombardi would spout off in a general way almost as if he was a spectator in the crowd. Ditka was not exactly a relaxed fellow on the sideline either. But whether an individual or group effect it was about elevating the level of play. And it had an effect.

Agree with all examples. And that's missing with MLF. Or maybe he does it another way, but in-game adjustments are rare, or maybe unobservable.

 

[rmontro]

Agreed. And when he wins a SB with Love, well that's the ultimate test.

That would be impressive, since he couldn't even get it done with Rodgers, not even with two #1 seeds.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That would be impressive, since he couldn't even get it done with Rodgers, not even with two #1 seeds.

That's a very good point. It's fashionable to say those teams didn't have great Ds, but how does a team get a #1 seed without an all-around very good team? The Packers had their chances those years, and I don't doubt that the Pack should have won the SB in at least one of those years. MLF wasn't the only one who made mistakes, but as HC, he takes the fall when the team fails.

 

[milani]

That's a very good point. It's fashionable to say those teams didn't have great Ds, but how does a team get a #1 seed without an all-around very good team? The Packers had their chances those years, and I don't doubt that the Pack should have won the SB in at least one of those years. MLF wasn't the only one who made mistakes, but as HC, he takes the fall when the team fails.

At least we should have reached the SB. How many NFC Championship games did we lose between 2007 and 2020?

 

[OldSchool101]

It also feels like this years team is attacking things the right way. They’ve held most of the band together imo. Then they’ve invested in Special Teams. We brought to the table a proven, veteran Returner in Skyye. Hard to believe he’s our WR6 as it wasn’t long ago he was a consensus Top 50 selection.

Then we go out and draft a Kicker. Granted it didn’t work that well Last time we drafted Anders Carlson. Yet here we took less projection and much better college consistency than Anders had coming in. Plus we retained Havrisik and he finished good last year with some impressive long makes. Then Havrisik is winning early in Camp which has to be pushing Smack.

I also see our RD6 drafted Corner as an upgrade. Domani is very physical and determined and runs a 4.41 40-yard and that’s really perfect as a Gunner option. Then we have Welch and Niemann battling for what might be
1 LB spot and that often goes to the better Teams player. Both are experienced but I predict Niemann will win out and Welch to PS.

Whelan led the league in several categories and he’s still a young 27 year old in the peak of his career.

It’s finally an area where we are putting a microscope on. It can be the difference between a Divisional level contender and pushing us over the top.

 

[Heyjoe4]

At least we should have reached the SB. How many NFC Championship games did we lose between 2007 and 2020?

Four that I recall. Seattle, San Francisco, Tampa Bay, and Atlanta I think. Not in order. Out of the four, the losses to Seattle and SF were really hard to take, and in the case of the Seattle loss, that's putting it mildly…….

 

[Heyjoe4]

It also feels like this years team is attacking things the right way. They’ve held most of the band together imo. Then they’ve invested in Special Teams. We brought to the table a proven, veteran Returner in Skyye. Hard to believe he’s our WR6 as it wasn’t long ago he was a consensus Top 50 selection.

Then we go out and draft a Kicker. Granted it didn’t work that well Last time we drafted Anders Carlson. Yet here we took less projection and much better college consistency than Anders had coming in. Plus we retained Havrisik and he finished good last year with some impressive long makes. Then Havrisik is winning early in Camp which has to be pushing Smack.

I also see our RD6 drafted Corner as an upgrade. Domani is very physical and determined and runs a 4.41 40-yard and that’s really perfect as a Gunner option. Then we have Welch and Niemann battling for what might be
1 LB spot and that often goes to the better Teams player. Both are experienced but I predict Niemann will win out and Welch to PS.

Whelan led the league in several categories and he’s still a young 27 year old in the peak of his career.

It’s finally an area where we are putting a microscope on. It can be the difference between a Divisional level contender and pushing us over the top.

Gluten has been making mostly solid moves since Love became the starter. He took the S group from last to first, or close. The trade for Parsons was exceptional. Just some examples.

The team still doesn't quite feel like a SB contender to me. They will need 1 or 2 of the rookies to have great years, in ROTY conversations. The CB group has been upgraded, but they certainly have a lot to improve.

If they have an impact rookie, and the CB group over-performs, then this could be a SB bound team. I just don't feel it, not now anyway. Then again, a lot of fans of Seattle and New England probably felt the same way this time last year.

 

[rmontro]

Four that I recall. Seattle, San Francisco, Tampa Bay, and Atlanta I think. Not in order. Out of the four, the losses to Seattle and SF were really hard to take, and in the case of the Seattle loss, that's putting it mildly…….

The fact that there were four different teams that sprung up to beat us really rankles me. If it was one team that was just better than us and we couldn't get by them, that would be one thing. But we were consistently there, trying to improve and take the next step. And four other teams passed us by like we were standing still, doing it better than we were. That's what irritates me.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The fact that there were four different teams that sprung up to beat us really rankles me. If it was one team that was just better than us and we couldn't get buy them, that would be one thing. But we were consistently there, trying to improve and take the next step. And four other teams passed us by like we were standing still, doing it better than we were. That's what irritates me.

Agreed. The Seattle and SF games were within easy reach for the Packers, but they still lost. TB should have been a W as well, but Brady was smarter the smartest guy on the field that day. That TD just before the end of the 1H was soul crushing. Atlanta wasn't close.

Even so, losing 4 NFCCGs in that span of time is hard to take.

 

[milani]

Four that I recall. Seattle, San Francisco, Tampa Bay, and Atlanta I think. Not in order. Out of the four, the losses to Seattle and SF were really hard to take, and in the case of the Seattle loss, that's putting it mildly…….

We also lost in 2007 to Eli and Coughlin, although thar was with Brett Favre.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We also lost in 2007 to Eli and Coughlin, although thar was with Brett Favre.

I remember that game, painfully. It was a very, very cold night at Lambeau. I recall it went to overtime????? I do remember Favre throwing a horrible, untimely pic that led to the Giants' winning FG.

And I think that's the year the Giants went on to beat the undefeated Pats (with Randy Moss) in the SB, a huge upset.

 

[rmontro]

I remember that game, painfully. It was a very, very cold night at Lambeau. I recall it went to overtime????? I do remember Favre throwing a horrible, untimely pic that led to the Giants' winning FG.

And I think that's the year the Giants went on to beat the undefeated Pats (with Randy Moss) in the SB, a huge upset.

Both the 2007-08 and 2011-12 Giants who beat us in the playoffs at Lambeau went on to beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
The thing I remember about that 2007 game was that I had a really bad feeling the entire game.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Both the 2007-08 and 2011-12 Giants who beat us in the playoffs at Lambeau went on to beat the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
The thing I remember about that 2007 game was that I had a really bad feeling the entire game.

Agreed. The Packers were the #2 seed I think and so hosted the NFCCG when Dallas was upset.

But in the NFCCG, the Packers couldn't create any distance from the Giants. As a result, the pic by Favre was magnified all the more. That pic certainly helped the Giants win, but it wasn't the only mistake made by the team that night.

 

[milani]

Agreed. The Packers were the #2 seed I think and so hosted the NFCCG when Dallas was upset.

But in the NFCCG, the Packers couldn't create any distance from the Giants. As a result, the pic by Favre was magnified all the more. That pic certainly helped the Giants win, but it wasn't the only mistake made by the team that night.

We had a chance to recover a fumble just across midfield that the Giants muffed. A first down or two and it would have given Crosby a shot to won it in regulation, cold or no cold. He already kicked 2 that day.

 

[milani]

Agreed. The Packers were the #2 seed I think and so hosted the NFCCG when Dallas was upset.

But in the NFCCG, the Packers couldn't create any distance from the Giants. As a result, the pic by Favre was magnified all the more. That pic certainly helped the Giants win, but it wasn't the only mistake made by the team that night.

Right. The roughing the passer on Nick Collins, the defensive holding call on Harris, and failing to recover the miffed punt. But that team kind of overachiever that year.

 

[OldSchool101]

Gluten has been making mostly solid moves since Love became the starter. He took the S group from last to first, or close. The trade for Parsons was exceptional. Just some examples.

The team still doesn't quite feel like a SB contender to me. They will need 1 or 2 of the rookies to have great years, in ROTY conversations. The CB group has been upgraded, but they certainly have a lot to improve.

If they have an impact rookie, and the CB group over-performs, then this could be a SB bound team. I just don't feel it, not now anyway. Then again, a lot of fans of Seattle and New England probably felt the same way this time last year.

Sure. I guess that’s pretty accurate for several teams. If you get 1 or 2 Rookies to noticeably rise up, plus moderate to good health (call it Top 1/3 of the league area) then we’re at least going to be that team that’s feared.