Do you believe that Las Vegas controls the outcome of some NFL games?

Does Las Vegas control the outcome of NFL games?

  • Yes, without a doubt.

  • No, you need a tin foil hat.

  • Maybe, I would like to see more information.

  • Other (Please specify)


Results are only viewable after voting.
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CashInFist

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Compiling a list of concpericy theoris doesn't make any of it true. In fact for every point on that entire list theres a very logical and way more likely counter argument to be used against each point
That's the point. You can not prove it. And that is not my post from there, I just liked it as an example. This has been going on for a long time. I am not alone in this belief by any means.
 
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CashInFist

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I think you are going to need to build a much stronger case then what you have presented....or wrap that to go.

Here is a little more:

The NFL as One Entity and Not 32 Individual Teams



-Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 gives anti-trust exemptions to professional sports leagues such as the NFL, which opened the door for joint TV agreements, which consisted of one "package" for the entire NFL





-NFL has tried to argue in the past that it is one entity, and not 32 separate teams, in order to get broader anti-trust exemptions.





Why the NFL Can Legally Fix its Own Games



-Sports Bribery Illegal

-18 U.S. Code § 224 - Bribery in sporting contests (part a): "Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commerce to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge that the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contest, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."



-It may be illegal for the Mob or Vegas to pay someone off to fix a game, but the NFL, as a business, can legally order its employees to fix its own games.



-As employees of the NFL, which acts as one entity, the players, coaches & referees have to fix the outcomes in order for the league to maximize fan interest, ratings, profits, and to have the best matchups & storylines.



How the Owners Benefit from Game Fixing



-Contrary to public belief, the goal for players, coaches & owners is not to win the Super Bowl, but to make the most money



-Revenue Sharing is split evenly between the 32 owners (75-80% of total profits)

-Included in this system is money from TV deals & merchandise sales



-Revenue Sharing, by fans, is seen as giving the league more parity & competition by giving small market teams money, but it works quite the opposite; it allows small market owners to maximize their profits, no matter if their team wins or loses.



-Revenue Sharing allows owners of small-market teams to benefit from having bigger brands such as the Steelers, Giants, Packers, etc win the Super Bowl instead of their own team, because it maximizes their own profits.



-For example, in the 2008 Super Bowl, the Arizona Cardinals were playing the Pittsburgh Steelers. The owners of the Cardinals, the Bidwill Family, would want the game to be fixed against his own team, because the Steelers would sell more merchandise than the Cardinals if they won the Super Bowl. Because of revenue sharing, Michael Bidwill gets a chunk of that money that came from merchandise sales.



-The owners of teams such as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Detroit Lions, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, etc, benefit when teams such as the Chicago Bears, NY Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots win, because those brands generate the most fan interest & the highest ratings.



-By having the best match ups and the most popular teams winning, since revenue sharing is split evenly between the owners, the league as a whole wants to put the bigger brands & the big markets in a position to succeed in order to maximize ratings & profits for all 32 owners. In this instance, the NFL completely sees itself as one entity; not 32 individual teams, but one product, which is NFL football.



How the Players & Coaches Benefit from Game Fixing



-Each year, as the game gets bigger & fan interest increases, players & coaches end up making more money.



-Players & Coaches make more money through higher TV ratings, which allows them to make more money.



-What results in higher TV ratings? Close games, parity, playoff spots up for grabs in the final week of the season, having the best story lines & match ups in the postseason, and having bigger brands and the best QB's win the Super Bowl.



-In this way, players & coaches of small market teams benefit when bigger brands win instead of their own teams, and when the best story lines are occurring.



-By having the best match ups & story lines in the postseason, TV ratings are maximized through having the most fan interest. So therefore, the players & coaches are in the fix together, in order to make themselves the most money.



-For example, the Atlanta Falcons could have made it to the Super Bowl against the Baltimore Ravens. If the 49ers won against the Falcons, it would have introduced the story line of two competing brother head coaches in the Super Bowl. This, along with the Ray Lewis retirement story line, would have maximized fan interest & ratings in the Super Bowl, which would allow players & coaches on the Falcons to make more money in the future. A Ravens-Falcons SB wouldn't have been as interesting as a 49ers-Ravens Super Bowl.



http://www.tonytellingitlikeitis.com/blog/The-NFL-is-Fixed--Scripted-55545
 

Carl

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Are you sure it was 50/50 odds? Or was the coin itself manipulated?

Okay. So what's your evidence the coin was rigged?

Rodgers being really good in the final minute doesn't make the coin weighted. Even if it was, the Cardinals still had to pick the correct side.

This is not a very good thread.
 
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CashInFist

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Okay. So what's your evidence the coin was rigged?

Rodgers being really could in the final minute doesn't make the coin weighted. Even if it was, the Cardinals still had to pick the correct side.

This is not a very good thread.

The coin did not flip (NEVER happened before) and it was in the Cardinals favor both times. Aaron Rodgers was NOT going to touch that football again after the Greatest Throw in NFL History.
 

Carl

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Here is a little more:

The NFL as One Entity and Not 32 Individual Teams



-Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 gives anti-trust exemptions to professional sports leagues such as the NFL, which opened the door for joint TV agreements, which consisted of one "package" for the entire NFL





-NFL has tried to argue in the past that it is one entity, and not 32 separate teams, in order to get broader anti-trust exemptions.





Why the NFL Can Legally Fix its Own Games



-Sports Bribery Illegal

-18 U.S. Code § 224 - Bribery in sporting contests (part a): "Whoever carries into effect, attempts to carry into effect, or conspires with any other person to carry into effect any scheme in commerce to influence, in any way, by bribery any sporting contest, with knowledge that the purpose of such scheme is to influence by bribery that contest, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."



-It may be illegal for the Mob or Vegas to pay someone off to fix a game, but the NFL, as a business, can legally order its employees to fix its own games.



-As employees of the NFL, which acts as one entity, the players, coaches & referees have to fix the outcomes in order for the league to maximize fan interest, ratings, profits, and to have the best matchups & storylines.



How the Owners Benefit from Game Fixing



-Contrary to public belief, the goal for players, coaches & owners is not to win the Super Bowl, but to make the most money



-Revenue Sharing is split evenly between the 32 owners (75-80% of total profits)

-Included in this system is money from TV deals & merchandise sales



-Revenue Sharing, by fans, is seen as giving the league more parity & competition by giving small market teams money, but it works quite the opposite; it allows small market owners to maximize their profits, no matter if their team wins or loses.



-Revenue Sharing allows owners of small-market teams to benefit from having bigger brands such as the Steelers, Giants, Packers, etc win the Super Bowl instead of their own team, because it maximizes their own profits.



-For example, in the 2008 Super Bowl, the Arizona Cardinals were playing the Pittsburgh Steelers. The owners of the Cardinals, the Bidwill Family, would want the game to be fixed against his own team, because the Steelers would sell more merchandise than the Cardinals if they won the Super Bowl. Because of revenue sharing, Michael Bidwill gets a chunk of that money that came from merchandise sales.



-The owners of teams such as the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Detroit Lions, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, San Diego Chargers, etc, benefit when teams such as the Chicago Bears, NY Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers, New England Patriots win, because those brands generate the most fan interest & the highest ratings.



-By having the best match ups and the most popular teams winning, since revenue sharing is split evenly between the owners, the league as a whole wants to put the bigger brands & the big markets in a position to succeed in order to maximize ratings & profits for all 32 owners. In this instance, the NFL completely sees itself as one entity; not 32 individual teams, but one product, which is NFL football.



How the Players & Coaches Benefit from Game Fixing



-Each year, as the game gets bigger & fan interest increases, players & coaches end up making more money.



-Players & Coaches make more money through higher TV ratings, which allows them to make more money.



-What results in higher TV ratings? Close games, parity, playoff spots up for grabs in the final week of the season, having the best story lines & match ups in the postseason, and having bigger brands and the best QB's win the Super Bowl.



-In this way, players & coaches of small market teams benefit when bigger brands win instead of their own teams, and when the best story lines are occurring.



-By having the best match ups & story lines in the postseason, TV ratings are maximized through having the most fan interest. So therefore, the players & coaches are in the fix together, in order to make themselves the most money.



-For example, the Atlanta Falcons could have made it to the Super Bowl against the Baltimore Ravens. If the 49ers won against the Falcons, it would have introduced the story line of two competing brother head coaches in the Super Bowl. This, along with the Ray Lewis retirement story line, would have maximized fan interest & ratings in the Super Bowl, which would allow players & coaches on the Falcons to make more money in the future. A Ravens-Falcons SB wouldn't have been as interesting as a 49ers-Ravens Super Bowl.



http://www.tonytellingitlikeitis.com/blog/The-NFL-is-Fixed--Scripted-55545

This isn't evidence at all. It's just reasons why people could might benefit from fixing. It doesn't present anything about fixing actually happening.

And to say an owner would want his own team to lose once getting to the Super Bowl is completely ridiculous.
 

adambr2

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Well, apparently 90% of people think it is rigged according to this poll:

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-the-nfl-rigged

It wasn't always but now it is a $32 Billion SHARED REVENUE CORPORATION, and outcomes can't be left to chance.
The NFL is a corporation with 32 departments. The total league revenues are shared equally so there is no punishment for owning Jacksonville vs Kansas City vs Dallas.

A few fundamentals need to be established:
First, the NFL possesses an Anti-Trust Exemption to the law granted to it by President John F. Kennedy, which ultimately allows the NFL to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than sport, as well as incorporate itself as a single entity instead of the 32 separate "franchises" they would want you to believe.

Second, in a 2004 lawsuit vs the NFL, the NFL argued they are not a collection of 32 teams, but a single entity. They compete as a unit in the entertainment marketplace, and not subject to Anti-Trust laws." Like the WWE.

Third, NFL Referees are part-time employees of the NFL. NFL refs make less than $75,000 per season. They work for the league, period. Referees are bound by NFL mandated gag orders which prevent them from talking to the media.

Next:
The "Patriots" post 9/11 run.
The Saints 40 years of losing, then winning a title for a Katrina ravaged city.
The Harbaugh Bowl
Marketing MAGIC !!!

Next:
In 2007 a Jets season ticket holder sued the NFL for $185 million and the case reached the US Supreme Court. The Jets fan argued that, all Jets fans are entitled to refunds because they paid for a ticket to a legitimate sporting event. Had he been aware that the games were not real then we would not have gone.

The Judge stated that a ticket to a game only provides you access to the stadium. The fan entered the stadium, witnessed a game, therefore he did not suffer any damages. The fan's lawyer disagreed and argued that the NFL committed consumer fraud.

Judges ruled that fixing a game for entertainment purposes was completely LEGAL.

Next:
In 2000 Art Model, a storied and respected owner of the Baltimore Ravens announced he was selling the team. Miraculously, even with one of the worst offenses in NFL history, they won the Super Bowl. And the Ravens were subsequently sold to Steve Busciotti for a record price.

Robert Kraft and John Mara are two of the most business savvy and highly respected NFL owners. Kraft is in charge of the NFL TV broadcast committee and also leads all television negotiations for the NFL. Kraft also is on the board of Viacom (CBS). Kraft negotiated a record TV deal resulted in $24 Billion in revenue.

Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank was interviewed saying "It is predetermined that these two teams would be here, I wish my team was selected to be in the Super Bowl, but these two gentlemen deserve it".

There are many more examples, and no one wants this to be true.....But it is. The NFL said it themselves in court. We are entertainment and we can manage outcomes as we see fit. We're EXEMPT. Thanks for reading all of this. It is compiled from many sources.

This is just beyond absurd.

First, you really think the Patriots entire dynasty is based on some post 9-11 hype? In any event, does any fan actually look at the Patriots as a national symbol just because of their logo? Why not go with 'America's Team' and have Dallas win it? Or one of the New York teams, or Washington?

Secondly, Hurricane Katrina was in 2005, the dome opened in 2006, and the Saints won the Super Bowl in early 2010. How anyone draws a conspiracy from those events over 5 years...I just have no idea.

The Harbaugh Bowl? Did anybody really care about that Super Bowl any more than any other? No, they didnt. It was just something for the talking heads to discuss that week. What you fail to mention is how many storylines that are 'passed on'. Why not have Favre face undefeated Brady in SB42 for his last ride? What about a Rex brothers Super Bowl? Why didn't they ever do that? What about Rodgers vs Brady? Do you really think Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are the most marketable guys on earth?

Oh, not to mention, the whole premise of this thread is Vegas affecting outcomes. What in the world does Vegas care if the Patriots win the SB after 9-11 or Harbaugh faces Harbaugh? How do they make a dime more off that.

You're entitled to your opinion but there are just so many holes in your conspiracy theories it's hard to know where to even begin.
 
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CashInFist

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This isn't evidence at all. It's just reasons why people could might benefit from fixing. It doesn't present anything about fixing actually happening.

And to say an owner would want his own team to lose once getting to the Super Bowl is completely ridiculous.
Here is what an NFL owner truly wants: $$$$$$$. You're welcome. LOL
 

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The coin did not flip (NEVER happened before) and it was in the Cardinals favor both times. Aaron Rodgers was NOT going to touch that football again after the Greatest Throw in NFL History.

Then it was flipped a second time when it wasn't even needed. That first flip didn't matter at all.

You've still yet to explain how Vegas made Randall blow coverage and let the Cardinals score quickly.
 

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The coin did not flip (NEVER happened before) and it was in the Cardinals favor both times. Aaron Rodgers was NOT going to touch that football again after the Greatest Throw in NFL History.

And here is another contradiction/hole in your theories. The Packers winning that game after 'the greatest throw in NFL history' would have been a way more favorable marketing outcome for the NFL than the Cardinals winning. That would have been remembered as one of the greatest moments in NFL history rather than a footnote.
 

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And here is another contradiction/hole in your theories. The Packers winning that game after 'the greatest throw in NFL history' would have been a way more favorable marketing outcome for the NFL than the Cardinals winning. That would have been remembered as one of the greatest moments in NFL history rather than a footnote.

Plus, the Packers being A LOT more popular team than the Cardinals would have generated more revenue by playing more games. That goes directly against his long post above about why fixing happens.
 
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CashInFist

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This is just beyond absurd.

First, you really think the Patriots entire dynasty is based on some post 9-11 hype? In any event, does any fan actually look at the Patriots as a national symbol just because of their logo? Why not go with 'America's Team' and have Dallas win it? Or one of the New York teams, or Washington?

Secondly, Hurricane Katrina was in 2005, the dome opened in 2006, and the Saints won the Super Bowl in early 2010. How anyone draws a conspiracy from those events over 5 years...I just have no idea.

The Harbaugh Bowl? Did anybody really care about that Super Bowl any more than any other? No, they didnt. It was just something for the talking heads to discuss that week. What you fail to mention is how many storylines that are 'passed on'. Why not have Favre face undefeated Brady in SB42 for his last ride? What about a Rex brothers Super Bowl? Why didn't they ever do that? What about Rodgers vs Brady? Do you really think Joe Flacco and Eli Manning are the most marketable guys on earth?

Oh, not to mention, the whole premise of this thread is Vegas affecting outcomes. What in the world does Vegas care if the Patriots win the SB after 9-11 or Harbaugh faces Harbaugh? How do they make a dime more off that.

You're entitled to your opinion but there are just so many holes in your conspiracy theories it's hard to know where to even begin.

Let's start with this one. The Patriots cheated their way to every single Super Bowl victory, lied about, and got caught and got away with it multiple times. That is what happened. Also, if they got caught that many times? That means they were cheating the entire time, "Law of Averages", in probably every way imaginable with 100% impunity because Robert Kraft is in bed with Roger Goodell (common knowledge). That is just a start man. The games are fixed, it has been happening for a long time, nobody wants to believe it.
 
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CashInFist

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Somebody, ANYBODY, answer this question: Why can't a $32 Billion/year entity not hire competent FULL-TIME referees? Nobody addressed that issue I have with the NFL.
 

adambr2

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Somebody, ANYBODY, answer this question: Why can't a $32 Billion/year entity not hire competent FULL-TIME referees? Nobody addressed that issue I have with the NFL.


#1, because the referees have a union who have historically resisted this for various reasons. It may happen at some point, but the NFL can't just make full time officials happen without agreement from the union.

#2, can you name one professional sport where people don't complain about officiating? Football is one of the more difficult sports to officiate, and all you need to do is go back to the first couple weeks of the 2012 NFL season to see how big of a difference in officiating quality there is between NFL officials and officials at lower levels.

#3, do you actually think it is possible for a crew of even the best officials to consistently watch 22 players who move at world class speeds, all at one time for 5-10 seconds thousands of times over the course of a season and do so with complete perfection without any mistakes? Come on, man.
 

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Somebody, ANYBODY, answer this question: Why can't a $32 Billion/year entity not hire competent FULL-TIME referees? Nobody addressed that issue I have with the NFL.

Why can't someone who is so adamant the NFL is fixed provide good evidence and address many points against it?
 
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CashInFist

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#1, because the referees have a union who have historically resisted this for various reasons. It may happen at some point, but the NFL can't just make full time officials happen without agreement from the union.

#2, can you name one professional sport where people don't complain about officiating? Football is one of the more difficult sports to officiate, and all you need to do is go back to the first couple weeks of the 2012 NFL season to see how big of a difference in officiating quality there is between NFL officials and officials at lower levels.

#3, do you actually think it is possible for a crew of even the best officials to consistently watch 22 players who move at world class speeds, all at one time for 5-10 seconds thousands of times over the course of a season and do so with complete perfection without any mistakes? Come on, man.
No offense, I like you, but all I see here are excuses.
 

adambr2

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No offense, I like you, but all I see here are excuses.

LOL, I don't even know what to say to you anymore, you asked for someone to answer your question about officiating and I did so in great detail. Are you familiar at all with how unions work?

It's clear you're not really looking for an explanation and no amount of logic is going to convince you, you just want to argue.
 
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CashInFist

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LOL, I don't even know what to say to you anymore, you asked for someone to answer your question about officiating and I did so in great detail. Are you familiar at all with how unions work?

It's clear you're not really looking for an explanation and no amount of logic is going to convince you, you just want to argue.

Yep, I know exactly how unions work. And the Public Unions are downright awful in every capacity imaginable.

Private ones? I am 50/50 on those. Maybe even 70/30 against them. Or somewhere in between. LOL

I don't think unions is a good debate for this thread. I don't know you all well enough to talk politics yet. Honestly, the thought of that kind of scares me. *****
 

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That's the point. You can not prove it. And that is not my post from there, I just liked it as an example. This has been going on for a long time. I am not alone in this belief by any means.

Just because there's plenty of people that believe in concpericy theories doesn't make them any more valid.

Hell there's plenty of people that still believe Bush was behind 9-11. It doesn't make them any less crazy just because there's a group of them and not just one guy wearing a tin foil hat
 

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Let's start with this one. The Patriots cheated their way to every single Super Bowl victory, lied about, and got caught and got away with it multiple times. That is what happened. Also, if they got caught that many times? That means they were cheating the entire time, "Law of Averages", in probably every way imaginable with 100% impunity because Robert Kraft is in bed with Roger Goodell (common knowledge). That is just a start man. The games are fixed, it has been happening for a long time, nobody wants to believe it.

And they were also caught, fined, docked a pair of 1st round draft picks and it's entirely possible Brady will end up suspended at the end of all the litigation. Yep Goodell is definitely in bed with Kraft.

You've still have not actually presented any evidence that isn't easily, and I mean very easily, explained away in a logical way.
 

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WTF? Wasn't there a guy here about year ago that eventually got banned because he kept spewing this garbage? Has he created this new account pretending to be a Ex-Fins fan defecting to the Packers so he can post the exact same utterly ridiculous crap that the last guy did?

Can you just lock this garbage thread please.
 

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If the refs were cheating they could have just as easily called Janis's catch incomplete. If you watch the replay it looks like the ball is still moving and gets punched out and touches the ground. I think he still caught it, but the refs could have called it incomplete and got away with a bad call. Game over.

If they wanted AZ to win, why risk it with a coin flip? Just end it right there.

This is just silly. The league probably likes the fact that they have that exemption because of all the loonies out there that would otherwise try to claim the NFL was rigged and sue them. This gives them an out. The NFL is popular enough, and there are enough story lines in whoever wins, that I don't think the NFL has to risk manufacturing wins and losing viewership because people find out "it's all rigged".
 

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Let's start with this one. The Patriots cheated their way to every single Super Bowl victory, lied about, and got caught and got away with it multiple times. That is what happened. Also, if they got caught that many times? That means they were cheating the entire time, "Law of Averages", in probably every way imaginable with 100% impunity because Robert Kraft is in bed with Roger Goodell (common knowledge). That is just a start man. The games are fixed, it has been happening for a long time, nobody wants to believe it.

Sure, that's why the NFL has punished them harshly for every violation and is going to great lengths to get Brady's 4 game suspension to stick over something as laughable as an under inflated football.

Teams bend the rules or even cheat at times, yes. That is not some new revelation and has nothing to do with a greater conspiracy.

I honestly think you're just trolling at this point.
 

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Just because there's plenty of people that believe in concpericy theories doesn't make them any more valid.

Hell there's plenty of people that still believe Bush was behind 9-11. It doesn't make them any less crazy just because there's a group of them and not just one guy wearing a tin foil hat

Dontcha know fire can't melt steel? Rosie said so! Heh. :roflmao:
 

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Does Las Vegas control the outcomes of NFL games?




No. Conspiracy theories are fun, but seldom correct. In order for a large-scale conspiracy to work, everyone has to be on the same page, and everyone has to keep their mouths shut. That almost never happens.

Ben Franklin said it best: Three can keep a secret, if two are dead.
 

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