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Dear Santa Claus (from A-ROD) ...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Hauschild, Nov 26, 2009.

  1. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Rodgers was directly responsible for half the sacks against Minnesota and probably close to half on the season. And, this is the whole point. How can you people casually look past the points I make like Rodgers holds no responsibility for the sack problem and the Packers record??? Rodgers has very little pocket awareness and it grows exponentially when his receivers appear to be covered - he has issues "anticipating" receivers breaking open, so this lends itself to holding onto the ball too long, thus sacks.

    It isn't something Rodgers can change in a week and like I stated THREE weeks ago - you have to put these Packers victories in their proper context in terms of the quality of teams beaten. The Packers are a highly inconsistent football team until they prove otherwise, which will be thru the end of their season NOT in a string of two or three games against cupcakes.

    This is nothing against Rodgers personally. Many of us tend to feel the need to make things personal, but that's not how I roll. I'm simple. Give me victories and you earn my respect and loyalty. Give me excuses and you're wasting our time.
     
  2. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    See my post above.
     
  3. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Of course it's not personal... But it's the same people, who so happens to be Favre fans...

    I mean, you just said that he was responsible for half the sacks... And keeps complaining about lack of pocket awareness, when I just showed that the sack was all on Clifton, and showed video evidence. Why don't you show some evidence that the sacks were on him?
     
  4. Eclipse612

    Eclipse612 Cheesehead

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    It's hard to have pocket presence when you hardly ever get a pocket.
    In the Minnesota games A-Rod was running away from Jared Allen play in and play out, I kinda understand him trying to hold the ball when he desperately needs to make something happen. Sometimes it's good to throw it away and avoid a loss of yards and a hit, but you can't do it throughout the football game. Of course he has held the ball too much a couple of times, but I think analysts and fans have read too much into this. Clearly, now that the line is getting better he has a better timing and moves better. Obviously he hasn't got the same presence a veteran QB has, but right now that's not what's keeping this team from winning consistently IMHO.
     
  5. 3irty1

    3irty1 Fear the Dreads!

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    I also believe that in recent games the playcalling has been better for our team. More short passes, and screens. I love me some big plays, but these short passes are dropping more people into coverage, giving the Oline a break, and altogether giving a huge boost to our running game, which in turn makes those same defenders worry about our running game, which opens up play action which in turn opens up the passing game. It's what i like to call.. "the circle of life".

    ok so i stole that from the lion king, but still, its a domino effect.
     
  6. OneHotelFoxtrot

    OneHotelFoxtrot Cheesehead

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    Double standard, tool.
     
  7. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    At least Favre "got" to the playoffs - several times in fact - actually the NFCCG two year ago with basically the same team.

    If you wanna play that game, I'll play it all day long.
     
  8. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    yeah, well....you don't have to stick your jaw out because I'm one of those Packers fan who didn't want him to retire...yet, he did...the reasons and the rationale are inconsequential. He retired.

    So...what's the good in getting to the playoffs if the same guy who supposedly got you there, and created the heavens and the earth in 6 days, ends it all with one (or 6, for that matter) poor passes? Not once... but 4 times? No one remembers who finished 2nd ... or 2nd in the NFC for that matter.

    ...besides, my mean spirited comments (those that weren't rightly deleted for talking ****) were aimed directly at the Vikings fan.
     
  9. OHIOFAN

    OHIOFAN Cheesehead

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    This is just getting ignorant-Rodgers is one of the top QBs in the league. If some of you can't let Favre go that is fine, but why make stupid posts again and again about Rodgers when he is playing very well, especially given the fact that he has had little protection until late. Favre is having a great year, but look at his running game and o-line. Favre would not fare so well if he were still on the Pack with this O-line and how the running game was doing. Do all you Favre lovers think that he was dead set on going to the Vikings because he thought he might do good. He went to the Vikings b/c they had a great O and D line and the best running back in the game. Rodgers is a top notch QB, even given the constant struggles of the O-line and running game.
     
  10. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Excuses, excuses - that's all we hear from the Rodgers crowd on why he cannot win the big games.

    And, to casually toss out the "Miinny has a better offensive line and running game" excuse without obviously watching any Minny games. Brett's been sacked a great deal compared with Brees and Manning, yet his numbers are better. Also, All Day leads the league in rushes for no gain or negative yardage. Translation: Minnesota's offensive line is NOT stellar. It has Hutchinson and McKinnie, but that's lilke saying Green Bay has Tauscher and Clifton - there are other important pieces that aren't necessarily NFL-starting O-line-caliber.

    I say instead of forcing yourself to choose sides, enjoy both of them because there's no reason you shouldn't be able to. Green Bay is going to make the playoffs and Minnesota is probably going to reach the Super Bowl, at least. Talk about nearly win-win?!?!?:happy0005:
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The Rodgers crowd? Well, that clarifies the whole thing...
     
  12. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Alot has been said already ... however ... Rodgers is a good quarterback, but lacks some serious pocket presence as well as other "intangibles" ... Qualities that he needs to improve on, if he is going to be a true "Top Quarterback" ...

    Rodgers vs. Peyton Manning - Manning (either runner up or shared MVP)
    Rodgers vs. Brett Favre - Favre (my pick for MVP this season)
    Rodgers vs. Tom Brady - Brady
    Rodgers vs. Drew Brees - Brees
    Rodgers vs. Ben Rothlisberger - Rothlisberger
    Rodgers vs. Kurt Warner - Warner (who has been rather underrated)
    Rodgers vs. Tony Romo - 50/50, could plead for either here really
    Rodgers vs. Eli Manning - 50/50, see above
    Rodgers vs. Ryan Flacco - Rodgers
    Rodgers vs. Jay Cutler - Rodgers

    Above are just 10 quarterback comparisons by me, while Rodgers stats have been impressive, stats alone do not tell the "whole story" ..., however really "good" quarterback have a tremendous impact on their respective teams ... Something that Rodgers have not had as of yet ...

    Ex. the Colts have pretty much "dismantled" alot of their team, especially their offensive line, and many "experts" actually say that the Colts offensive line is worse talentwise than the Packers, yet Manning is making all the difference ... - Same way Favre had a huge impact on the 2007 Packers team - Not the entire difference, however, anyone who fails to acknowledge the difference, just don't get it ...

    The Cardinals doesn't have that great of an offensive line either ... And Warner has been making alot more erratic plays and fumbles while pressured than most other "top tier" quarterbacks ... Especially the past few seasons ... - Again, the Cardinals are doing rather well, and Warner does make very good plays as well as showing more pocket presence when the game counts ...

    "Top Quarterback" to me, would indicate atleast a top5 quality quarterback ... and while Rodgers (again) have very impressive stats, those stats have been highly misleading, especially because (lack of pocket presence will get you sacked alot and) sacks don't count against the rating ... In the past few games the Packers have played pretty good, however, barring one win against the Cowboys (at home where they pretty shut the Cowboys out) the other two wins have been against very weak teams, much like the 2 wins against the Lions and Browns leading up to the Vikings @ Packers game ...

    The Game against the Ravens by all accounts should tell everyone a whole lot more about the whether or not the Packers are going to make the play offs, and the game against the Steelers (how the Packers play the Steelers away regardless of winning or losing) will be the "real" indication of how well the Packers may or may not fare in the play offs later in the season ...

    But to consistenly say that Rodgers is a "top quarterback", while in the same breath diminishing the impact Favre has had on the Vikings or on the 2007 Packers (as well as the other 16 years in Green Bay) is far fetched ...

    - How fickle the memory is ... Only ONE single losing season in 17 seasons so far should tell you alot ... - Even a winning season in a whole new offensive system (while with the Jets) should tell you about how football savy Favre is ... Especially compared to Rodgers at *this* point ...

    The time for getting success (play off runs) for the Packers and the Management is running short ... Especially if Favre decides to return to play in the 2010 season as well ... Some times I wonder if Mark Murphy will acually last longer than Ted Thomson and McCarthy ...
     
  13. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    This is just a dumb post period.
     
  14. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    Why....because it's true?
     
  15. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    I am a high believer In a good offensive line is the key to winning games, and that really showed early on for Green Bay as Rogers was getting sacked left and right (literally). The last couple of weeks with a change up in the game plan they have been able to protect the quarterback a little better and get their season back on track.
     
  16. Murgen

    Murgen MechaPackzilla

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    Actually, I think this is the winner.
     
  17. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I am with you 100%. ...but... we've got to admit that A-rod does hold onto to the ball too long at times. Be it an unwillingness to give up on a play that has been blown up, or receivers that weren't coming to the ball, or a faulty Darren Colledge at left tackle and let's not forget Mr. Barbre (or, let's forget Mr. Barbre...it's too painful to think about.)
     
  18. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I don't think anybody argues that Rodgers does indeed hold the ball too long. But it's the argument that the line (with Barbre) was good, and that it was 50% on Rodgers that was out of order.

    Also, saying that he doesn't have pocket awareness is preposturous. It certainly is an area of his game that he needs to improve, but people makes it look like he simply doesn't have it, when it was clear to me that it had a lot more to do with playcalling and pass protection, both things that were corrected since the Dallas game, and it showed in his game...
     
  19. Pugger

    Pugger Cheesehead

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    What is it that Rodgers ever did to some of you around here? You must hate him because he was drafted by everyone's favorite whipping boy = TT. Do you blame AR for stealing the starters job? Do you think TT wanted to get rid of BF from day one? If TT was so hell bent on ditching Favre so he could start Rodgers why didn't TT trade #4 after BF's stellar season in 2005? And why all the comparisons? Of course Rodgers won't have Favre's pocket presence now. BF had issues too when he first started to play regularly. Isn't it just a little insane to compare a 17 year vet with all of his experience to a young QB with only 26 starts under his belt? Rodgers is in a no win situation. He'll never be good enough in the opinion of some of you no matter what he does in his career, either in GB or somewhere else. To the haters he'll always be the guy who helped run Brett Favre out of town.
     
  20. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    None is blaming Rodgers for stealing anything, period ...

    The comparisons are talked about, because most people (that are "against" Favre) makes the assumption that Favre would play just as poorly, if not poorer, under this same offensive line, when most facts actually would speak to the contrary, which is also why I've been saying for a long time that the offensive line the Packers have is not as bad as alot of people make it out to be ...

    As for Favre's first few seasons in Green Bay ... - What most people seem to forget is that Favre was and still is an "impact-player" ... - Much more than Rodgers is ... Even in his early years, Favre had the (intangible) ability to make the players around him (seemingly) play harder (and better) ...

    Most of us doesn't "hate" Rodgers, - we simply (strongly) disagree when other posters are saying that he is just as good as Favre, because clearly he is not ... - That is why we reply with opposing arguements ...

    Can Rodgers ever be as good as Favre ? Maybe (and I hope so for the Packers), but personally, I doubt it, because there are just too many things (still) that he needs to (heavily) improve on, and most of those are "inbred", not learned skills, however, that is not the same as saying that Rodgers will not have a great career, because in all likelyhood he will have to the benefit of the Packers ...

    You can only change the gameplay and strategy so many times, before the opponents "pick it up", and again you have to rely on your quarterback in those situations, and that is what I'm talking about, when I (along with others) are pointing out "inbred" skills versus "learned" skills ...
     
  21. OneHotelFoxtrot

    OneHotelFoxtrot Cheesehead

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    The sad thing is, we can't go one thread without talking about BF. JeffQuery, your posts have become useless. It's obvious you do it just to start stuff with other people. The simple fact is as a PACKER fan, I'm excited that we have strung 3 straight wins together, and don't say well it was against the Lions blah blah blah. If we would have lost, you would have said, "well a good team would have won a game like that..etc." The original post in this thread was useless as well. I really don't understand why either one of you guys even post here anymore. It doesn't even seem like you are Packer fans, because you really dont resemble anything but a ViQueen fan.
     
  22. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Now Tony Dungy has thrown himself aboard the FAVRE-4-MVP bandwagon.

    Has anybody watched all of the Vikings games like I have? All Day is becoming more irrelevant by the week - another 10 rushes today for no gain.

    I never thought I'd EVER say this, but Brad Childress is truly a genius. :)
     
  23. OneHotelFoxtrot

    OneHotelFoxtrot Cheesehead

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    Ladies and gentleman, a Viqueens fan.
     
  24. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Yes, but only for a matter of time.:happy0005:

    But, wait! I didn't read your response closely enough for it appears you have a Duke banner in your signature. If there was ever a more counterfeit operation than Duke, I'm a monkey's uncle. What fun could it possibly be to follow a college basketball team that routinely lands the country's top talent and wins the title every 5-10 years???

    If you're not from North Carolina, you best remove that Duke banner, or at the very least, cease blasting my fanhood because I choose to "follow" Brett Favre. Pot -> meet -> Kettle.
     
  25. OneHotelFoxtrot

    OneHotelFoxtrot Cheesehead

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    I live in North Carolina..nice try though
     

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