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Comparison, Saints and Packers

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by morningwood, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. FearThePack

    FearThePack 13x World Champs!

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    Let's take a look at some of the stats!
    Saints Home schedule (6-0):
    Chicago W 30-13
    Houston W 40-33
    Indy W 62-7
    Tampa Bay W 27-16
    New York W 49-24
    Detroit W 31-17

    Away schedule (4-3)
    Green Bay L 34-42
    Jacksonville W 23-10
    Carolina W 30-27
    Tampa Bay L 20-26
    St. Louis L 21-31
    Atlanta W 26-23 OT
    Tennessee W 22-17

    Home stats
    39.8 PPG
    18.3 Points allowed per game
    317.8 pass yds/g
    8.5 pass yds/att
    159.o rush yds/g
    5.6 rush yds/att

    Away stats
    25.1 PPG
    25.1 Points allowed per game
    331.4 pass yds/g
    7.7 pass y/att
    91.4 rush yds/g
    3.9 rush yds/att
     
  2. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I'll say it again since I want to be on record. I think the Packers and Saints are 1-2 in the NFL. I don't think the Saints are equal and I don't believe they are equal to the task of beating the Packers in Lambeau in the late season.
    That being said I'd still like to see the 9ers knock the Saints out of the playoffs, I'd much prefer SanFran to NO in any venue.
     
  3. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    I like the Saints, as most people on this board know.
    But I believe it's a bit too early to start throwing statistics around. Just wait till we know for sure we'll see you fellas in the playoffs, then you can start throwing all that in our faces when we beat you down in the cold weather. Last year I believe the Saints played 3 cold weather games, and won only 1, and that was against the Bengals, in which they barely beat. I do give them props for playing a tough game against Baltimore, but you seen all the dropped passes, and so on. They are not a cold weather team, and that's one of 3 reasons they lost to Seattle.


    I will mention a statistic that seems forgotten though.

    It's how bad the Saints, can't stop a 2 minute offense.

    Let's go back to that Atlanta game shall we? Up by 10, and that crumbled away. But the Falcons drove 90 yards in under 2 minutes to kick the game tying field goal, but what amazes me is how the Saints left Douglas WIDE OPEN NOT A MAN EVEN CLOSE TO HIM on that drive after Matt Ryan targeted him 3 times in a row, which got them all the way down into new Orleans territory. First off, before that final drive, Matt Ryan had a 40 yard completion to Douglas because he was wide open with no one covering him. A short screen set up a 40 yard run, why wasn't anyone covering him? You can compare that to our defense giving up big plays till your blue in the face, but I think we would have picked Ryan off where Roman Harper dropped the interception, that would have won the game without the use of OT.

    Now let's go to Tennessee. I really think the Saints could have won by more, cause that Jimmy Graham touchdown WAS a touchdown. (Go and watch the tape if you disagree, that one is totally a TD) But even though they didn't get that TD, the Saints were up 22-10 and let the Titans crawl back into the game, just like they did Atlanta. The Saints gave up a HUGE PLAY that put the Titans at the 3 yard line cause they refuse to play man to man defense against a 2 minute offense.

    Even when we played the Saints, Rodgers had the 2 minute drill in check on the opening drive, and it was as effective as teams in the later year ran it.


    One thing I will say about all the critiscm they get for road performances. Their offense plays really well on the road. I absolutely believe they have a better offense than they did in 2009. Yeah they lost to Tampa Bay on the road, but I'm not going to that far, cause the 49ers lost to the Cardinals. Those are divisional games, which you can easily lose. Look at the numbers in the Saints last games since their last lose, and you can't say that Brees is awful on the road, that offense ROLLS in almost every game, but that defense totally stinks. Look at the stats for the offense and on the road, and they are damn good. I think Rodgers is better than Brees, but I have nothing against Drew, he was my Number 1 quarterback back in 2009, and despite the high INT number last year, I still had him in my top 3. But that defense, Just keep blitzing and leaving guys wide open all over the place, and see where that gets them.


    Why can't the Saints get turnovers like they used to? I watched every game in 2009, and that defense just amazed me. I was never a supporter of 4-3 defenses, but that 2009 unit really made me raise my eyes, because they got turnovers. We may give up a lot of yards, but we do get the turnovers that lead to points, and that's what matters. The Saints get stops every now and then, but they struggle as far as turnovers go, and they struggled last year with that too. What ever aggressive chemistry Williams came up with for that 2009 defensive unit really wore off when they decided to change up their starting lineup on defense last year (Letting Fujita go to Cleveland was a big mistake, and Alex Brown was a joke)

    At the end of the Tennessee game the commentators Aikman and Buck kept saying "Gregg Williams sure is tired of people talking about his defense giving up 450 yards in the last few games" that's understandable, but it would be more believable if he made a statement out of it. Remember when Capers was tired of people talking about how bad the Packers defense played like against the Giants and Chargers? Disappointment was expressed in those performances. in return we totally shut down the Vikings, holding their work horse Adrian Peterson below 50 yards (Forgive me if I'm wrong, it may have been a little over 50) and then last week they made a huge statement against the Raiders totally shutting them out most of the game, and the defense had 4 turnovers, and they gave Carson Palmer the worst nightmare of his season. THAT is how you get it done if you're tired of people criticizing your defense.
     
  4. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I agree with much of what you say Bogart.

    Saints are a better road team than given credit for, but they are not a good cold weather team.

    Saints fans look at the first game of the season and are chomping at the bit to come up to Lambeau again and beat us. Guess what? There's a big difference between balmy September and frigid January.

    Although Saints have the better overall offense (better OL, better running game at least for now), I'll take the GB defense over the Saints defense. It's not just the turnover differential, it's the pass defense. Saints did a good job of stopping the run against TEN but I don't see any decent pass rush or a quality secondary on their part. Why have Rodgers' numbers gone down a little over the last couple of weeks? Giants and Raiders both put pressure on Rodgers. I don't think the Saints can do that, and no way is their secondary as good as the Packers' secondary.

    Also I mean come on, defensing the Titans was not difficult. Titans have a mediocre passing attack at best, so the Saints could key on stopping the run, which they did.

    I love Drew Brees and I respect the Saints. Brees is having a great season and we do not have the decisive advantage at the QB position.

    And one more thing. The way Ryan Grant ran the ball against the Raiders was major-league encouraging. If that can continue then watch out.
     
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  5. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Rodgers Vs Brees? Let me Discount Double Check the stats........ (computing..... processing data).... Yes, Aaron Rodgers is still the best QB in the league.
     
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  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Head a stat today that I cant verify

    The Saints had to throw lot more, because they had to play catch up...The announcer didnt say how many times, or vs what teams..

    Who can verify this?
     
  7. SanDiegoCheese

    SanDiegoCheese West Coast Cheesehead

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    Jimmy Graham, TE Saints! Dude is a beast around 6'6 260 with soft hands he's kinda flying under the radar with the year Gronk is having in New England. Watch him closely the next time the Saints play too big for DB's and too fast for LB'ers. IMHO he's better than J-Fin and will give our D fits if we meet this in the playoffs.
     
  8. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Like I said, I think they should have won by more against Tennessee. 2 TD's called back, and that one from Jimmy Graham, that was one of the worst calls I have ever seen. he had a knee and both feet down, that is a touchdown, but at the same time, if the Saints can over come so many ****** penalties like they did in that game, there is no excuse for the absolute blown coverage in the 2 minute drill. That last play in the game, Locker had a man wide open and he held on to the ball too long. The refs were basically giving that game to the Titans, and they couldn't execute that well, or they would have won it.

    Saints did shut down the most overrated running back in the league (CJ2K) and kept him in check very well, but that's not really a significant stat, cause ever since Johnson got that huge pay check, you can tell he's not serious about winning.


    And no I don't think the Saints can get pressure on Rodgers either. The success of their 2009 unit still gets thrown around, but this is not the same defense. The 2009 team benefited from having a veteran safety that played like the general on the field. Darren Sharper was the Charles Woodson of that team, and don't take the wrong way, I am NOT comparing the two. When Sharper was on the field, that defense played so much better. When Woodson went down in the Super Bowl, you seen our secondary struggled a bit against the Steelers. You need that one veteran guy on your defense that helps all the younger guys. You can easily see with their secondary today, that Sharper is not out there. Tracy Porter went from an interception machine to a guy that no one is scared to throw over. Roman Harper used to be useful against the pass, I'm not very convinced he is anymore.But I also think they made a huge mistake letting some of their LB's go after winning the Super Bowl. Scott Fujita is in Cleveland, and they have yet to find another outside pass rusher to replace him, bringing in Alex Brown from Chicago looked like a sign of an upgrade, but he did nothing for them. As successful as they had become giving QB's a nightmare from hell with their blitzes and constant pressure, they should have tried to build on their depth of line backers and keep that going, instead they did the opposite. Payton knows how to build an offense, but I don't think they have a clue what to do on defense, cause since Sharper has left the whole aggressive attitude of that team slowly has disappeared.
     
  9. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    Dear visiting NFC teams coming to Green Bay for the playoffs:

    "No One here gets out alive"

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. CarolinaPackerFan

    CarolinaPackerFan Packers fan in Panthers country

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    hahaha i lold at that one!
     
  11. Greenbayphil

    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    Probably, if you look at Rodgers attempts and Brees' attempts, Brees has just short of 100 more attempts at throwing the ball.
     
  12. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    I think the Packers throw far more than the Saints because we struggle to run the ball against good teams. Last week was the first time in a long while we've had a good day running the ball over 100 yards. The Saints have had 2 or 3 games with over 200 yards rushing.
     
  13. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think the saints throw a lot more....
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Then why does Drew have more attempts? 105 more attempts---8 more passes per game
     
  15. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Drew throws a lot more short passes than Rodgers, especially to Sproles coming out of the backfield. Rodgers throws it downfield more which is why his yards per catch is more.
     
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  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    LOL

    Was answering Bogart---he said Packers ran more?
     
  17. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    I think he got it right. Brees and the Saints use screens very often, short slants to Sproles.


    No the Packers don't run it as much as the Saints, which is the only thing I find wrong with this offense in times.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Opps....Meant you said NO ran more, thence why I put the stat of Drews 105 more attempts
     
  19. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    If anyone watched New Orleans today, just so you know, they gave up ZERO sacks to the Vikings. The Vikings, with Jared Allen, the team that gave Rodgers so much hell with their pass rush. And on top of comparing O-lines, look how banged up ours is now. I may take some heat for saying this, but the Saints have a far better O-line than the Packers. Go ahead and call me names, but today proved it for me, just like they gave up zero sacks to the Giants and the Giants were all over us the entire game. I seriously, do not, do not, DO NOT want them in the playoffs.
     
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  20. whoartthou

    whoartthou Cheesehead

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    no i agree with you. The saints oline is 100x better than the packers.
     
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  21. Jules

    Jules The Colts Fan

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    Sick of them already. I will hear everyone peeing their pants on them for weeks now. They got to win today in a dome and next Monday night they have yet ANOTHER home prime time game. I lost count in how many they get.

    At least the Katrina story is pretty much over though (I think). In 2009 I heard about it every 5 minutes.
     
  22. morningwood

    morningwood Cheesehead

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    Well, you get the Ravens and the Chargers tonight. Enjoy.
     
  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    The Saints get 2 home games in their climate-controlled dome now to finish the season.
    This week they get Atlanta, who often plays them well.
    Then they finish with Cam Newton and the Panthers.
    I really have a bad feeling they will pass SF and get the #2 seed.

    I want them to stay at the #3 seed, and force them to A) play an extra game, and then B) go to San Francisco, before C) we host the NFC Title game hopefully.

    I will be rooting for SF tomorrow vs Pittsburgh, at Seattle next week, and at St Louis week 17, but I'm pretty sure SF will lose at least one of those games, while NO will win both their home games, to steal the 2 seed and bye.

    I like Brees if I have him in fantasy, but I don't.
    So I'm sick of the guy.
     
  24. GVN2FLY

    GVN2FLY Cheesehead

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    How can some of you be sick of Drew Brees and the Saints? All I keep hearing is Packers... perfect.. Rodgers...Rodgers.. he's the best... Rodgers MVP... etc etc. Brees is always an after thought "Oh yeah that guy in New Orleans he's doing ok too.

    I like Brees and is also having an amazing year at QB right now.. they need to start throwing his name up there with Rodgers for MVP. I know a lot of you just can't give him any due but he's doing amazing these past 6 games, totally out performing Rodgers in these last 5 games or so. Although, I still think Rodgers gets the MVP, Brees deserves some credit. Far more than what the media and Pack fans give him.

    Right now, I say the Saints are THE HOTTEST team in the NFL. And when you are hot going into the playoffs there's no stopping yah! Last year it was the RED HOT PACKERS... and look what happened. I'm sick and tired of people saying they are not an outside team and Brees cannot play in the cold.... this is football anything can happen. Don't compare them to the 2006 Saints against the Bears.. those are two totally different teams. Or even the injury prone Saints last year that lost to the hawks. My point is SAINTS are RED HOT and they are peaking at the right moment, they will be a force to be dealt with in the playoffs.

    One more thing, I do feel that they can go into SF and beat the 9ers at home. So, if they end up 2nd or 3rd. If they play Packers for the NFCCG.... oh man -- GOOD GAME!!
     
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  25. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    I agree with you.



    I don't think they lost to the Seahawks because they "suck on the road", they had no running game last year. You're not going to win if your QB throws for 400 yards on 60 pass attempts, when you can't run the ball.


    I'm a Pack fan, but i give Brees the credit he deserves. I don't see how anyone can say a bad thing about the guy. He has a better completion % rate than any QB in the league with average C and B receivers and only 2 elite weapons (Sproles and Graham) and how can you not like a guy that is not a good role model? He's the one quarterback i have never heard anyone talk bad about. Even Dallas fans who hate the Saints down here will tell me how much they hate them but they like Brees, or that he's a great guy.


    I want a Saints/Packers NFC Championship game cause it would really be the best 2 teams in the NFL, and everyone knows it. The best 2 offenses, and I strictly believe who ever wins that game would win the Super Bowl. The NFC is the power..
     
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