Cole Madison is coming back to play this season.

Favre>Rodgers259

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Am I insensitive for thinking that Madison's personal issue is "slightly overblown" at this point? Guy says he's good to go, I believe him 100%. I think any struggles he may have now at this point are purely football related. I mean, it's not like he HAD to report. He could have pulled a Raji and we never would have heard from him again. Maybe it's just me.
 

sschind

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We know Gute saw Edge, Safety, and OL as needs in free agency that he wanted to fill so his draft board is more opened up. You can't wrap your head around the fact that Gute possibly may not see OL as big of a need as you do?

Again for the last time, Gute may very well have a OL as the highest player on his board when he picks at 12, 30, or 44. He may take a OL as the best player available with those picks. He won't though be taking one under pressure of "need."

And you can't wrap your head around the possibility that he might still see the OL as big of a need as he does. I think we all agree that we do need help at a variety of positions. Given the players likely to be available to us I think that it is very good chance that the BPA at #12 is going to be a player that also fills a need. So when Gute makes the pick is it out of need or is it BPA? Why can't it be both? Will it be our greatest need? Who knows as no one knows which position Gute thinks is our greatest position of need. For that matter know one knows who Gute will think is the BPA.


We will see what happens. I will be sitting in front of the 86 inch stressed. :D

They are saying about guys and their big TVs the same thing they used to say about guys and their cars.:D

Ted Thompson who Brian Gutekunst often says "taught me nearly everything I know":

"We feel very strongly that our best policy is to draft the best player regardless of need. This isn't fantasy football"

Fans perceived "need" now could be different in August due to injuries. And your new "need" in August could change in October.

Taking the best player is always the best approach and the Packers under Gute or his mentor TT before him, have stayed as true to this philosophy as any team in the NFL.

You sure seem to think that people always mean exactly what they say by the way you use quotes as proof for everything. And I used to think Captain took things a little too literally sometimes.

Pretty much every GM says the same thing every year (unless they are looking for a QB) About the only thing you have said that makes any sense is that needs can change.

As far as Gute and TT staying as true to that philosophy as any other team you may be right. That doesn't mean they stay all that true to the philosophy

If there are 2 players with a similar grade by a GM on their board I do think need factors in. I also think need factors in more in later rounds.

Neither of us are "smart GM's" of a NFL team and we have never been in a draft room during a draft so we are mostly speculating here, but judging from comments I've read and heard from countless NFL GM's over many years, I do believe taking the best player is your best path to success in any draft.

Isn't that what he has been saying all along. There is also the idea of what what truly makes a player the "best player" Take the Chiefs for example. They have Mahommes and their secondary is a wreck lets say Haskins and Deandre baker are both available when it comes their turn to pick. Which one is the best player. Some would argue Haskins (based on top 50 lists) and the Chiefs might even think he is the best player but would he really be the best player for them to take. I don't think so. They take Baker because he is the best player for them to take.


You like to use word "tier" which is irrelevant here.

It was 20 players that were above their first round line.

You are too caught up in always trying to prove me somehow wrong on something to have a discussion with you. It gets old. Js.

So you have a first round tier, second round tier etc. Rodgers was the only one left with a first round grade so they took him. As for your second point Pot/kettle.

Whatever though..moving on

Why do I get the feeling we won't be moving on. I know, I know, I'm not helping.



We don't have the knowledge of who Ted or Gute viewed as the BPA when they made their picks. However, we do have the knowledge that Ted and Gute both have said: "We feel very strongly that our best policy is to draft the best player. This isn't fantasy football"

I do think need comes into play a little more in the later rounds. If you look over Ted's drafts I think a strong case can be made for that. But need is never the main reason a player is taken. Maybe other GM's do that, but not in Green Bay. At least under Ron Wolf, Ted Thompson, and Brian Gutekunst.

Some may argue that Jaire and Josh were need picks last year. Gute has said Jaire was the highest player on his board at 18. Josh then was still there at 45. Some will say "Well he isn't going to say he picked them for need but he really did." I tend not to buy that theory. And instead stick with Ted and Gute's long standing strongly held belief in taking the best player regardless of position.

Because they say so it has to be true. Again. Just because someone says something doesn't mean its the absolute truth. Do you really think Gute is going to say "Well you know, there were lots of better players out there but we needed a cornerback so we took Jaire." He may very well have had Alexander tops on his list but on the other hand he may have had him tied with some other player or even 1 or 2 below and took Jaire because it was a greater need. Still at the top of his board or close enough to say so but need won out. As far as Jones I think a lot of people were surprised he fell so he may have been #1 on the board.
 

Mondio

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Am I insensitive for thinking that Madison's personal issue is "slightly overblown" at this point? Guy says he's good to go, I believe him 100%. I think any struggles he may have now at this point are purely football related. I mean, it's not like he HAD to report. He could have pulled a Raji and we never would have heard from him again. Maybe it's just me.
overblown how? as in media keeps talking about it? or overblown in that he shouldn't have stayed away?

Knowing nothing of the kid and his situation, I'd say i'm completely comfortable with him taking the time he needed and then coming back to commit to football. I do not think it will affect him going forward in any more way than someone missing his friend sometimes and we all have that happen. I pull for guys like this over the AB's of the world every damn day and happy to do so.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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overblown how? as in media keeps talking about it? or overblown in that he shouldn't have stayed away?

Knowing nothing of the kid and his situation, I'd say i'm completely comfortable with him taking the time he needed and then coming back to commit to football. I do not think it will affect him going forward in any more way than someone missing his friend sometimes and we all have that happen. I pull for guys like this over the AB's of the world every damn day and happy to do so.

Not sure how much the media is covering it but yes. I feel like he is done with the issue that happened back at Wash St. He has nothing but football on his mind at this point. At least that's what I'm assuming. Like I said, no reason to come back if his conscience wasn't clear.
 

scotscheese

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InGuteWeTrust said:
I do not feel comfortable posting on this fan forum any longer as it is one of the strangest, and frankly creepy collections of posters I have ever seen and I've seen a lot. You are in no way a representation of the great and proud #PackersNation.

Deleted for privacy concerns

deleted for privacy concerns??

toodles
 

swhitset

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InGuteWeTrust said:
I do not feel comfortable posting on this fan forum any longer as it is one of the strangest, and frankly creepy collections of posters I have ever seen and I've seen a lot. You are in no way a representation of the great and proud #PackersNation.



deleted for privacy concerns??

toodles
We have all seen a lot of odd things posted in this forum.... but the statement that you quoted has to be the most ironic thing I’ve EVER seen in here.
 

PackerDNA

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overblown how? as in media keeps talking about it? or overblown in that he shouldn't have stayed away?

Knowing nothing of the kid and his situation, I'd say i'm completely comfortable with him taking the time he needed and then coming back to commit to football. I do not think it will affect him going forward in any more way than someone missing his friend sometimes and we all have that happen. I pull for guys like this over the AB's of the world every damn day and happy to do so.


IMO if he has any problems, it will be a year away from the game.
 

Mondio

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IMO if he has any problems, it will be a year away from the game.
I agree, and if he has the right stuff to work with, I think he'll make the team regardless. 1 year away when you're young and in shape is a lot different than 1 year away at the tail end of your career because of injury or something.
 
D

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I agree, and if he has the right stuff to work with, I think he'll make the team regardless. 1 year away when you're young and in shape is a lot different than 1 year away at the tail end of your career because of injury or something.

Madison would have most likely been on the bubble to make the team last season after being a fifth round pick. In my opinion it might be tough for him to make the final roster after missing an entire year.
 

Mondio

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I didn't say he was a shoe in, I just don't think the year away will be his limiting factor, nor do I think what he went thru mentally will be either. For a young kid that missed a year non injury related, the time between now and August will be enough time for him to get back into it and show what he has. Maybe he never had enough in the first place, as a 5th rounder it wouldn't be the first time. But I think he does.
 
D

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I didn't say he was a shoe in, I just don't think the year away will be his limiting factor, nor do I think what he went thru mentally will be either. For a young kid that missed a year non injury related, the time between now and August will be enough time for him to get back into it and show what he has. Maybe he never had enough in the first place, as a 5th rounder it wouldn't be the first time. But I think he does.

I understand that you don't consider Madison a lock to make the roster. While I hope he will add much needed quality depth on the offensive line I'm not as optimstic about those chances as other posters around here.
 

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his body will come around. it's all about this guy's head. if his head is right i bet he makes it. it's not like the Packers have the cowboy's o-line of the mid-90's.
 
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I pray I am not reading too much into his situation. The stress of that death could’ve caused a drug abuse issue and knowing they test regularly could’ve prevented him from showing. I only say this because I’ve seen it happen to athletes.
This is just one of many possible scenarios. I’m not trying to disparage him, I’m only saying we don’t know the reasoning and whatever his personal reasons are? we can’t assume his situation does not pose some additional risks. This is highly irregular at the NFL level.
I’m not as concerned about his ability to win a spot from a performance perspective as I am the risk of a repeating personal issue that he’s not fully prepared to overcome.
Either way I pray this kid stays focused and puts his heart and soul into his work. That and some regular counseling are paramount.
 
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I pray I am not reading too much into his situation. The stress of that death could’ve caused a drug abuse issue and knowing they test regularly could’ve prevented him from showing.

There are absolutely no indications about Madison having any drug issues. In my opinion that's a vicious allegation that was completely uncalled for.
 

sschind

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Vicious? Please. Let’s not be overdramatic here. You’re assuming I’m maliciously attacking him which is absolutely ridiculous. I’ve got nothing but genuine concern for him and you’re quite naive if you don’t think his situation is odd and not asking questions. Quit acting all high and mighty

You may not have had malicious intentions Old School but I think the post was still uncalled for. As long as you are throwing out totally unsubstantiated possibilities why stop there. I can think of some pretty juicy rumors to start spreading if I were so inclined.

So his situation is a bit odd. Having a close friend commit suicide is highly irregular at that level so it could have caused any number of issues and you are right, drugs could have been one of them, but without a shred of evidence to back it up I don't see the need to bring it up.

That said, and this may have been all your were trying to point out, we can't discount the possibility that there will be further issues with Cole Madison and I don't think we can look at it in exactly the same way we would look at a any other 5th round draft choice. His situation does present additional questions I just don't know that the answers to those questions are any of our business.
 

Mondio

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he had his close friend take his gun and kill himself supposedly from CTE symptoms. Being an offensive lineman, during a time when the whole thing is new to everyone and they're trying to figure it out and about all the know is lineman take repeated blows to the head every single snap, it's hardly a stretch to think the kid had 2nd thoughts about pursuing football as a career at that point. I think the most obvious explanation is the correct one until I see something to substantiate anything else.
 

GleefulGary

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Runner up to you picking your own player in the draft twice back to back maybe. Good thing you weren’t on stage reading that! Lol:roflmao:
Yeah.

Totally.

Picking the same player twice is equivalent to saying a player has a drug abuse issue bc his best friend killed himself with his gun.

You're a real winner, buddy.
 
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Vicious? Please. Let’s not be overdramatic here. You’re assuming I’m maliciously attacking him which is absolutely ridiculous. I’ve got nothing but genuine concern for him and you’re quite naive if you don’t think his situation is odd and not asking questions.

You have an odd way of showing genuine support for Madison by bringing up a rumor that he might have a drug issue without any evidence to back up that claim.
 

thequick12

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I pray I am not reading too much into his situation. The stress of that death could’ve caused a drug abuse issue and knowing they test regularly could’ve prevented him from showing. I only say this because I’ve seen it happen to athletes.
This is just one of many possible scenarios. I’m not trying to disparage him, I’m only saying we don’t know the reasoning and whatever his personal reasons are? we can’t assume his situation does not pose some additional risks. This is highly irregular at the NFL level.
I’m not as concerned about his ability to win a spot from a performance perspective as I am the risk of a repeating personal issue that he’s not fully prepared to overcome.
Either way I pray this kid stays focused and puts his heart and soul into his work. That and some regular counseling are paramount.

Now if you're talking about marijuana as "drugs" first of all, in Washington state where I believe Madison was spending his time, marijuana is legal. So he would have been using legal medicine say in lieu of some sort of Dr prescribed pharmaceutical like Xanax or ******. Stuff that's definitely way worse without debate.

If you're talking about hard drugs your theory of wanting to avoid tests doesn't seem well thought out as those drugs generally only stay detectable for a few days after use. I'm pretty sure the NFL does urine tests not follicle or I'm sure a lot more players would be suspended.

Further it's my understanding that unless you are in the nfls drug abuse program. Players are only tested once at the beginning of the season for marijuana and it's not a random thing they all know when it's coming. Basically if you fail that all it proves is that you're too dumb to quit smoking or use one of the many easy ways to pass a urine analysis.

Either way I'm not offended by your comment nor do I think others should be. To me you weren't starting a rumor you were speculating about what the issues could be that kept him away from the team. And to me that's what this forum is for lots and lots of speculation.
 

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Yes, Cole was there yesterday.

I also noticed he is listed on the regular/active roster on the Packers' website now.
best player available might be a thing in later rounds but not in the first as there are lots of exceptions to that rule in past Packers drafts. maybe it's a combination of the two...the best player available at out biggest need. lol

I would prefer Gute take the BPA with every pick. When you start going for need you can tend to reach for players instead.
 
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I would prefer Gute take the BPA with every pick. When you start going for need you can tend to reach for players instead.

As I've mentioned a ton of times it's unrealistic to expect positions of need to not factor into a draft selection.
 

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BPA in a vacuum does not exist. Need is ALWAYS accounted for.

For example, if they had a guy like Kyler Murray rated over Quinnen Williams, who do you think they're taking?

With Thompson's first draft he took the BPA by a long shot even tho QB wasn't a major need at all. I recall a lot of moaning and hand wringing but a lot of folks that day too. I think that pick turned out pretty good. :D
 

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