Attempting to "Fix" Cornerback Play

[tynimiller]

So many threads have the discussion happening so let's centralize it. No one has been happy with how Hobbs has played, at times Nixon (dude has looked stellar at times too for sure) but bottomline is play has to get better....we nearly had 30 pressures and 6 sacks against Jacoby ******** Brissett and gave up nearly 300 yards through the air and made him look like an elite QB....

Three ways to solve...

From within...we figure out Carrington Valentine needs to play over Hobbs on the outside...or maybe Hobbs finally puts it together and Nixon stops overselling at times and plays smart like he showed he can. PUT VALENTINE IN NEEDS DONE YESTERDAY.....but let's look at the other two options some:

Street free agent....Asante Samuel Jr is really the only guy out there potentially and that's only if he medically clears and we can come to agreement....his medical stuff leaves a lot to be desired....but if he is what he was he would instantly at worst be CB2 on this team but likely CB1.

Trade....I've outlined some but a few possibles:

Call the Giants dealing with kicker issues and see if they'd trade Cor'Dale Flott for Havrisik. Flott is in his final year of rookie deal and after years of underperforming is doing well outside this year, with other young high pick guys on their roster and need of a kicker....might be possible.

Call the Dolphins and see if in thier chaos they'd come off of Rasul or Melifonwu perhaps even Brents....all in their final year and all capable of better outside play than anyone we currently have playing (excluding Valentine).

Would New Orleans possibly deal Alontae Taylor in his final year??? They have massive salary issues forward and likely aren't resigning. Problem is he isn't a pure outside CB so likely cross him off list honestly...

Stokes...if Raiders called and said they'd take a 7th what do you do? Honestly....at this point I say bring him back.

 

[gopkrs]

4 is let someone else on the team play and see what happens

 

[tynimiller]

4 is let someone else on the team play and see what happens

That’s literally in the first point lol we agree that is step one

 

[El Guapo]

Bo Mother-Loving Melton

...enough said??

 

[tynimiller]

Bo Mother-Loving Melton

...enough said??

Honestly start him and Valentine at this point outside…

 

[gopkrs]

Honestly start him and Valentine at this point outside…

So you want to sit Nixon. I would not do that.

 

[tynimiller]

So you want to sit Nixon. I would not do that.

Not really as he has passed most time for me, Valentine is our best corner and proved it not only last year but first two games this year when we started him….it is asinine to start Hobbs over him

 

[gopkrs]

Not really as he has passed most time for me, Valentine is our best corner and proved it not only last year but first two games this year when we started him….it is asinine to start Hobbs over him

I agree that Valentine should play over Hobbs. But he's not perfect. He played very loose and gave up first downs on pretty simple out patterns. So I do expect him to play more. I just hope he can play tighter.

 

[tynimiller]

I agree that Valentine should play over Hobbs. But he's not perfect. He played very loose and gave up first downs on pretty simple out patterns. So I do expect him to play more. I just hope he can play tighter.

If the coverage call is cushion anyone will.

 

[El Guapo]

I agree that Valentine should play over Hobbs. But he's not perfect. He played very loose and gave up first downs on pretty simple out patterns. So I do expect him to play more. I just hope he can play tighter.

What were the Packers playing when you saw him playing loose? Certain calls such as Cover 3 or Cover 4 typically calls for the CB to play off the line, or drop back immediately, to defend their assigned part of the field. They are designed to prevent the big plays, and if anything, allow the check-downs or out-routes as a concession. If we were in Cover 2 and Valentine was playing off and not jamming at the line, then that is a problem.

 

[gopkrs]

What were the Packers playing when you saw him playing loose? Certain calls such as Cover 3 or Cover 4 typically calls for the CB to play off the line, or drop back immediately, to defend their assigned part of the field. They are designed to prevent the big plays, and if anything, allow the check-downs or out-routes as a concession. If we were in Cover 2 and Valentine was playing off and not jamming at the line, then that is a problem.

It may be the defensive call. I hate seeing a corner backpedaling and the receiver just do an out on 3rd down for an easy 1st down. No matter who is the corner. It seems like we do it more than other teams and have for a long time before even LaFleur. Tyrone Williams used to drive me nuts. I'm just not going to give a free pass to cornerbacks that do it. There are times to do it. But not the whole damn game. We get 1st downs on out patterns of course, but usually we at least have to make a tough throw. I'm blaming it on the corner. I still would like to see Valentine play as Hobbs is really bad as a corner. But I would not mind aeeing others get a chance to play.

 

[OldSchool101]

This is just a hunch. Opponents have recently been throwing short and we might have contemplated that Hobbs could play Shortstop better. Just a hunch. Obviously that theory proved false and my hope if we revert back to Valentine who’s more normal graded with better range. We still are gambling with depth at boundary CB. I like Melton but I’d like him better in year two when he’s has more experience.
I suspect after this weekend and some more losses there will be 3-4 teams that are open to offers. I see no reason zero reason why a team like Miami would be stuck on Rasul etc. He probably could be attained for a 7th or a late Day 3 pick swap etc.

 

[El Guapo]

It may be the defensive call.

I think that Hafley (like all of us knew coming into this season) realized that his cornerbacks are the weakest link. Therefore he is essentially having his CBs play off-ball more often than not, keeping the plays in front of them and not getting beat deep.

One could argue that a better strategy would be to have his corners press and disrupt, causing the QB to hold the ball an extra second in order to throw deeper. This would allow our pass rush to get home more often instead of just registering pressures. It opens us up to the big play.

I like that our defense isn't giving up big plays this season. It may be unreasonable for us to expect a dominant defense when we don't have dominant players at all levels.

 

[gopkrs]

I think that Hafley (like all of us knew coming into this season) realized that his cornerbacks are the weakest link. Therefore he is essentially having his CBs play off-ball more often than not, keeping the plays in front of them and not getting beat deep.

One could argue that a better strategy would be to have his corners press and disrupt, causing the QB to hold the ball an extra second in order to throw deeper. This would allow our pass rush to get home more often instead of just registering pressures. It opens us up to the big play.

I like that our defense isn't giving up big plays this season. It may be unreasonable for us to expect a dominant defense when we don't have dominant players at all levels.

I noticed you didn't talk about specifics. Like 3rd and 8 and just letting them catch an out like they were playing catch in the backyard.

 

[El Guapo]

I noticed you didn't talk about specifics. Like 3rd and 8 and just letting them catch an out like they were playing catch in the backyard.

Correct, I'm just speaking about the defensive philosophy. Would you like to talk about specifics?

 

[gopkrs]

Correct, I'm just speaking about the defensive philosophy. Would you like to talk about specifics?

Hell, I just talked about one. Sounds like you are going to talk to me about the benefits of bend don't break. I'm not a fan.

 

[milani]

I think that Hafley (like all of us knew coming into this season) realized that his cornerbacks are the weakest link. Therefore he is essentially having his CBs play off-ball more often than not, keeping the plays in front of them and not getting beat deep.

One could argue that a better strategy would be to have his corners press and disrupt, causing the QB to hold the ball an extra second in order to throw deeper. This would allow our pass rush to get home more often instead of just registering pressures. It opens us up to the big play.

I like that our defense isn't giving up big plays this season. It may be unreasonable for us to expect a dominant defense when we don't have dominant players at all levels.

I agree. In so many years our other D coaches did that as well fearing that if we pressed, the play action would kill us with shots down the field. That was understandable then because our pass rush was not so good. But now we have the best pass rusher in the game. If teams want to block us they have to use extra players to do it and cannot send as many down the field. 3 receivers should not beat 7 defenders.

 

[OldSchool101]

One could argue that a better strategy would be to have his corners press and disrupt, causing the QB to hold the ball an extra second in order to throw deeper. This would allow our pass rush to get home more often instead of just registering pressures. It opens us up to the big play.

Exactly! I’ve been saying this for years!

Common sense that if a team had a top 10 Pass Rush you would compliment that with an increased % of press coverage, depending on the individual matchup. Theoretical is it disrupts Route timing by an extra 0.5 sec. Imo the recipe must include a pair of premier Pass Rushers or a mixture of a premier iDT and Edge AND physical Corners with adequate make up speed. Plus a pair of Safeties who are more adept at support roles over the top and work in unison with Boundary CB’s.
The Packers are one of several teams that have all the ingredients.

By playing Zone with our grouping? you are essentially not fully trusting your Pass Rush to get home. Go ahead and Greet the WR’s properly and stop playing timid. It’s also an antidote for screens and passes to the flat because you have D personnel all up in the backfield at a moments notice. Meaning you take out 1/3 of the O playbook.

In the business world. It’s the Company that spends massive effort and dollars on marketing and advertising. Only to Pizs off customer when they show up

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree. In so many years our other D coaches did that as well fearing that if we pressed, the play action would kill us with shots down the field. That was understandable then because our pass rush was not so good. But now we have the best pass rusher in the game. If teams want to block us they have to use extra players to do it and cannot send as many down the field. 3 receivers should not beat 7 defenders.

I still believe we act like it’s 1999. We got so used to getting burned over the top because of an inferior #23 rated front 7 that we went heavy shell. We can’t seem to think outside the box and be tone setters. We dabble but we won’t committ. Like me with my old girlfriends. Let’s quit *****catting

 

[OldSchool101]

Listen. You just might have 2-3 more 20+ plays when pressing. However you eliminate 5-6 more 5-10 yard plays , you get less long, 8+ minute drives and you create Turnovers at a higher rate. Both in Sack fumbles and errant throws because of timing issues (the best way to beat the Packers is keep Jordan Love off the field)

You let opponents play dinky dunky in the middle of the field and protect the sideline when there’s <2:00 min left in an half and they need 65 yards and trailing by 11 points. Let them eat 90 seconds for a FG etc. that’s when I’ll play that hand, similar to our first couple of games.

We get a lead and get all excited and start playing “not to lose” in the middle of the 3rd qtr! Today’s teams are scoring 31 points in the 4th Qtr! You can either press the gas peddle now… or put yourself in a predicament in the 4th Quarter on 4th n 5 to lose. Your choice

 

[milani]

Exactly! I’ve been saying this for years!

Common sense that if a team had a top 10 Pass Rush you would compliment that with an increased % of press coverage, depending on the individual matchup. Theoretical is it disrupts Route timing by an extra 0.5 sec. Imo the recipe must include a pair of premier Pass Rushers or a mixture of a premier iDT and Edge AND physical Corners with adequate make up speed. Plus a pair of Safeties who are more adept at support roles over the top and work in unison with Boundary CB’s.
The Packers are one of several teams that have all the ingredients.

By playing Zone with our grouping? you are essentially not fully trusting your Pass Rush to get home. Go ahead and Greet the WR’s whemproperly and stop playing timid. It’s also an antidote for screens and passes to the flat because you have D personnel all up in the backfield at a moments notice. Meaning you take out 1/3 of the O playbook.

In the business world. It’s the Company that spends massive effort and dollars on marketing and advertising. Only to Pizs off customer when they show up

I could never picture Herb Adderley or Willie Wood playing zone. They were allowed to use their talent in that defense. When Herb went to Dallas at the end of his career he butted heads with Landry over that freedom. Herb knew how to play defense.