Cole Madison is coming back to play this season.

[InGuteWeTrust]

My entire post was relating to Cole Madison so I added a general comment after my response to you. I guess my saying I must have read it somewhere else wasn't enough of a clue. From now on I will spell it out for you.

INGUTEWETRUST THIS REPLY IS FOR YOU:

I just don't see how you can have such an insight into what other people think. I mean here you claim to know what Gute thinks of the OL. In another thread you claim to know what LaFleur thinks of the WR group.

Most of us (oh, this is still aimed at you by the way) don't presume to know what others think if those people have not expressly told us what they think. We give our opinions and not the opinions we think others have. Especially when we can really have no clue as to what the opinions of others are.

I made a comment (still talking to you IGWT) in one of my first replies to you and I am starting to wonder if I was not a bit premature.

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[Deleted member 6794]

Nice to have Madison back, him along with Turner, Siragusa, Light and DeBeer offer some intriguing young options along the OL. My biggest question is what shape he's in? It's one thing to take a year off and be working out every day and it's another to take a year off and be watching soap operas every day.

I'm not worried about Madison being in shape as he will have the entire offseason program to make it work.

Great news. Whereas I was all for drafting 2 OL man in the draft, I think adding one flexible guy will be sufficient in stabilizing our line (with Williams, Ford, Risner as options in the 1st).

Oline:
Bahk - Taylor - Linsley - Turner/Rookie - Bulaga
Turner/Rookie - McCray - Madison - Patrick - Spriggs

That Depth Chart could look a whole lot worse. Plenty of other teams do not have such a talented OL group.

The Packers didn't sign Turner to a contract like that to have him sit on the bench.

 

[elcid]

I'm not worried about Madison being in shape as he will have the entire offseason program to make it work.



The Packers didn't sign Turner to a contract like that to have him sit on the bench.

Splendid observation, thats why I have him pegged at RG right now.

 

[tynimiller]

I was high on Madison adding depth last year, his slightly edgier play left me wanting to see him progress...I'm hopeful as all that he has regained center on his life and perhaps can be what many were beginning to see possible before his departure last year.

I also know none of us here on this forum know as much as the staff, and even they may not have the time frame and ability to gauge just what is left in or if anything left Madison in the last year...and how that should or should not impact assessing needs on the roster; which we all know can and do at times influence the draft.

Someone said early the only surprise pick in the first two rounds for them would be RB...while I would add QB to the shocked list....I honestly would say my 3rd most unlikely to see first two days for us is OL. That said I would place the over/under on OL drafted by us at 2.5.....and I'd probably bet on the over but will be 3rd rounders or later.

 

[Mondio]

oh, and QB would be shocking in the 1st 2 rounds as well, I just figured that went without saying

 

[Curly Calhoun]

oh, and QB would be shocking in the 1st 2 rounds as well, I just figured that went without saying

And long-snapper....

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

I'm glad Madison is able to join the Packers after having to take off a season but he's a long shot to even make the roster in 2019.

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[Mondio]

And long-snapper....

yes, that one too. Man I gotta think things thru more

 

[HardRightEdge]

Great news. Whereas I was all for drafting 2 OL man in the draft, I think adding one flexible guy will be sufficient in stabilizing our line (with Williams, Ford, Risner as options in the 1st).

Oline:
Bahk - Taylor - Linsley - Turner/Rookie - Bulaga
Turner/Rookie - McCray - Madison - Patrick - Spriggs

That Depth Chart could look a whole lot worse. Plenty of other teams do not have such a talented OL group.

The Packers did not give Billy Turner a $7 mil / year deal to have him sit on the bench. He's a starting OG and, given LaFleur's comments and Turner's prior experience, he's peciled in as a backup at OT with the current roster.

Taylor has plateued at a merely serviceable level and reliable depth across the line is absent which is a particular concern with Bulaga always an injury risk. Looking out two years, Bulaga is in his contract year and Taylor's cap savings going into 2020 will be $4.5 mil or even $2 mil this year.

The presumption at this point is that Turner is to be penned in at RG and the backup to Bulaga if he goes down. That remains to be seen. I would not rule out his utility being open to LG starter and the LT backup.

The bottom line is there are 4 quality OL, down to 3 if Bulaga goes down, with the rest either serviceable or worse (Taylor, McCray), disappointing (Spriggs), entirely unproven (Siragusa, Madison, Coyle, de Beer) or bubble guys who have been around for a year or years (Patrick, Light, Pankey). If anything, the safest #6 OL at this point is Patrick as the presumtive backup center which in itself says something.

Looking out two years, you have Bakhtiari, Linsley, Turner, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? and ?.

Whether Turner ends up on the right side or the left, there's a strong argument for expending some decent draft capital on the O-Line.

If you want to project Turner as the Bulaga backup and future RT, you still need a plug and play RG which is not somebody you can expect to find on day 3. Spriggs might be that guy but nobody is talking about a permanent move to OG which to my eye is where his future lies.

There's a number of ways to go here, from a top OT prospect slipping to 12 to play OG in 2019 and take over for Bulaga in 2020, or Cody Ford in a trade down to plug and play at OG as one mock would have it, or a Caleb McGary, a guy to plug and play at RG with Turner at LG, with McGary now visiting Green Bay. He'd also be a possible Bulaga successor with development. None of these options, or other similar ones, are likely to be open at #77. Even McGary is borderline at #44.

Compare and contrast to the WR position where there are a lot of young guys a couple of whom did pretty well as rookies with indicated upside. Allison showed progression until he was injured. The ceilings are unknown but evident progression is indicated. That does not exist on the OL past the top 4, or top 3 if Bulaga goes down again.

Then there's the #2 safety, with Williams now penciled in as a corner, or #2 ILB, or pass rush out of the D-Line and a declining Daniels in a contract year. There's little in the way of projection at these positions either.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

The Packers did not give Billy Turner a $7 mil / year deal to have him sit on the bench. He's a starting OG and, given LaFleur's comments and Turner's prior experience, he's peciled in as a backup at OT with the current roster.

Taylor has plateued at a merely serviceable level and reliable depth across the line is absent which is a particular concern with Bulaga always an injury risk. Looking out two years, Bulaga is in his contract year and Taylor's cap savings going into 2020 will be $4.5 mil or even $2 mil .

The presumption at this point is that Turner is to be penned in a RG and the backup to Bulaga if he goes down. That remains to be seen. I would not rule out his utility being open to LG starter and the LT backup.

The bottom line is there are 4 quality OL, down to 3 if Bulaga goes down, with the rest either serviceable or worse (Taylor, McCray), disappointing (Spriggs), entirely unproven (Siragusa, Madison, Coyle, de Beer) or bubble guys who have been around for a year or years (Patrick, Light, Pankey). If anything, the safest #6 OL at this point is Patrick as the presumtive backup center which in itself says somethin.

Looking out two years, you have Bakhtiari, Lindsley, Turner, ?, ?, ?, ?, ? and ?.

Whether Turner ends up on the right side or the left, there's a strong argument for expending some decent draft capital on the O-Line.

If you want to project Turner as the Bulaga backup and future RT, you still need a plug and play RG which is not somebody you can expect to find on day 3. Spriggs might be that guy but nobody is talking about a permanent move to OG which to my eye is where his future lies.

There's a number of ways to go here, from a top OT prospect slipping to 12 to play OG in 2019 and take over for Bulaga in 2020, or Cody Ford in a trade down to plug and play at OG as one mock would have it, or a Caleb McGary, a guy to plug and play at RG with Turner at LG, with McGary now visiting Green Bay. He'd also be a possible Bulaga successor with development. None of these options, or other similar ones, are likely to be open at #77. Even McGary is borderline at #44.

Compare and contrast to the WR position where there are a lot of young guys a couple of whom did pretty well as rookies with indicated upside. Allison showed progression until he was injured. The ceilings are unknown but evident progression is indicated. That does not exist on the OL past the top 4, or top 3 if Bulaga goes down again.

Then there's the #2 safety, with Williams now penciled in as a corner, or #2 ILB, or pass rush out of the D-Line and a declining Daniels in a contract year. There's little in the way of projection at these positions either.

Cole Madison is certainly also a strong candidate for taking over in 2020 at either RT or RG. He and Billy Turner would both be in the mix to take over the RT spot. Whichever player doesn't win the RT job would be a top candidate for RG.

I would honestly put Cole ahead of McCray on the depth chart. I will be looking forward to seeing Cole in mini-camps and training camp. He is a keeper. I believe he will be turning some heads again this offseason like he did last offseason until he stepped away from football.

 

[Mondio]

I remember they were pretty high on the kid. I keep in mind that they are always that way post draft workouts and OTA's, but from the little I could see from him, I thought he'd be like a Scott Wells, or TJ Lange for us. Doesn't set the world on fire day one, but has what he needs to lock down a spot after a season or 2 for a long time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Cole Madison is certainly also a strong candidate for taking over in 2020 at either RT or RG.

I believe he will be turning some heads again this offseason like he did last offseason until he stepped away from football.

Cole Madison is a candidate. There is no reason to put a "strong" in front of his name any more than any other unproven 5th. round pick, perhaps less so since an open question remains as to how badly he wants to play football.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Cole Madison is a candidate. There is no reason to put a "strong" in front of his name any more than any other unproven 5th. round pick, perhaps less so since an open question remains as to how badly he wants to play football.

I will put whatever word I want in front of his name..thank you.

You can have whatever feelings you want to about Cole. Your opinion on him is meaningless to me.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I will put whatever word I want in front of his name..thank you.

You can have whatever feelings you want to about Cole. Your opinion on him is meaningless to me.

Suit yourself.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

Suit yourself.

Don't take it personal. We can agree to disagree on Cole. We will talk in September about Cole and I bet you will have a different opinion of him at that time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Don't take it personal. We can agree to disagree on Cole. We will talk in September about Cole and I bet you will have a different opinion of him at that time.

If there's any person taking anything personally in this exchange it certainly isn't me. By the way, "agree to disagree" is one of those meaningless phrases like "glass half full".

 

[sschind]

Great news. Whereas I was all for drafting 2 OL man in the draft, I think adding one flexible guy will be sufficient in stabilizing our line (with Williams, Ford, Risner as options in the 1st).

Oline:
Bahk - Taylor - Linsley - Turner/Rookie - Bulaga
Turner/Rookie - McCray - Madison - Patrick - Spriggs

That Depth Chart could look a whole lot worse. Plenty of other teams do not have such a talented OL group.

I think it is great that Cole Madison has seemingly put the worst behind him. I wish only the best for him. However, I would be reluctant to rely on him too much. Obviously Gute thinks highly of him because he drafted him so that may influence any modifications in his draft strategy but if it were me I would still be looking at the draft with the same outlook I had before CM showed up. If he becomes the player Gute thought he could become that's great and we have one more horse in the barn so to speak but if he doesn't and Gute passes on some OL help because he was counting on CM to contribute we could be in some trouble. Obviously you could say that about any 2nd year guy but CM is not your typical 2nd year guy.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

If there's any person taking anything personally in this exchange it certainly isn't me. By the way, "agree to disagree" is one of those meaningless phrases like "glass half full".

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[elcid]

I think it is great that Cole Madison has seemingly put the worst behind him. I wish only the best for him. However, I would be reluctant to rely on him too much. Obviously Gute thinks highly of him because he drafted him so that may influence any modifications in his draft strategy but if it were me I would still be looking at the draft with the same outlook I had before CM showed up. If he becomes the player Gute thought he could become that's great and we have one more horse in the barn so to speak but if he doesn't and Gute passes on some OL help because he was counting on CM to contribute we could be in some trouble. Obviously you could say that about any 2nd year guy but CM is not your typical 2nd year guy.

I completely agree. I think my post should have been clearer. I was a big proponent of drafting 2 olinemen in the draft, but I wouldnt necessarily advocate that as hard anymore. Even if the need shrunk only ever so slightly.

Since 2 draft picks would probably mean an early and a late round selection, I feel like to some extent we already made that late round selection with the return of Madison, and an OL on day 1 or 2 would suffice to create a solid unit.

I might be a bigger advocate of double dipping at TE, WR, ILB and S now. An additional option could be to use this "won" 5th round pick as firepower to move up. It would roughly take our 1st 4th rounder in the back end of the 3rd.

Madison has not shown us anything yet, but dito for any other late round rookie. Just brainstorming on what the implications for our draft strategy could be.

 

[elcid]

The Packers did not give Billy Turner a $7 mil / year deal to have him sit on the bench. He's a starting OG and, given LaFleur's comments and Turner's prior experience, he's peciled in as a backup at OT with the current roster.

Taylor has plateued at a merely serviceable level and reliable depth across the line is absent which is a particular concern with Bulaga always an injury risk. Looking out two years, Bulaga is in his contract year and Taylor's cap savings going into 2020 will be $4.5 mil or even $2 mil .

The presumption at this point is that Turner is to be penned in a RG and the backup to Bulaga if he goes down. That remains to be seen. I would not rule out his utility being open to LG starter and the LT backup.

Again, I completely agree. I think I should have had Taylor/Rookie in the lineup because that is where the confusion started. As the RG spot was the weakest going into the offseason, I was of the mindset that that position would be upgraded with an early day selection, if one was taken. While of course still a rookie could be drafted to play RG, I was also of the opinion that in that case Taylor would most likely lose his job to Turner (these names got my brain all twisted up already).

However, I do not agree that immediate guard help can't be found in the third round. Ben Powers, Dru Samia and Alex Bars are players that come to mind who imo are available in the 3rd and can immediately contribute.

 

[OldSchool101]

Again, I completely agree. I think I should have had Taylor/Rookie in the lineup because that is where the confusion started. As the RG spot was the weakest going into the offseason, I was of the mindset that that position would be upgraded with an early day selection, if one was taken. While of course still a rookie could be drafted to play RG, I was also of the opinion that in that case Taylor would most likely lose his job to Turner (these names got my brain all twisted up already).

However, I do not agree that immediate guard help can't be found in the third round. Ben Powers, Dru Samia and Alex Bars are players that come to mind who imo are available in the 3rd and can immediately contribute.

Connor McGovern is a player that has a good chance of being an immediate contributor but also should be there round 3. Dru Samia has gotten some buzz as having some long term upside but I believe he won’t get picked until late 4th round best case. I’ve seen him rated from back of the 3rd round all the way to Free Agent area. Anyway, point being, he’s unlikely to be a starter quality guy his rookie year either way.

 

[Heyjoe4]

We need a special section of this site for these people that come to a forum expecting something other than a discussion.

There wouldn’t be anyone left............

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I honestly would say my 3rd most unlikely to see first two days for us is OL. That said I would place the over/under on OL drafted by us at 2.5.....and I'd probably bet on the over but will be 3rd rounders or later.

I believe the Packers consider offensive line one of their biggest need, therefore it would surprise me if Gutekunst doesn't select one with the team's first three picks.

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We'll talk about that in September, although I would be surprised if you're still around by then.

 

[InGuteWeTrust]

I believe the Packers consider offensive line one of their biggest need, therefore it would surprise me if Gutekunst doesn't select one with the team's first three picks.



We'll talk about that in September, although I would be surprised if you're still around by then.

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[HardRightEdge]

Connor McGovern is a player that has a good chance of being an immediate contributor but also should be there round 3. Dru Samia has gotten some buzz as having some long term upside but I believe he won’t get picked until late 4th round best case. I’ve seen him rated from back of the 3rd round all the way to Free Agent area. Anyway, point being, he’s unlikely to be a starter quality guy his rookie year either way.

Those are possibilities. Judging from the visits list (Little, McGary) Gutekunst is looking higher up the food chain to an OT projection who can play OG to start out.

It's a tricky business. Gutekunst may like Little, McGary or another OT projection at a specific pick, but if they are gone or he's not able to swing a trade down or up to a targetted spot, then Plan B for an OG may be in the cards. I have little doubt, one way or the other, that O-Line is priority.