Bigby vs. Manuel

Zero2Cool

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I hope this doesn't go bad, but I'm curious...

Are we a better defense with Bigby? Or were we better with Manuel?

Using facts and/or opinions, state why. :)
 

MassPackersFan

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That the rest of our DB's wanted Bigby in there to rely on speaks volumes to me. He's proven to be a playmaker so far as well (I believe he not only caused a fumble against the Skins, but was credited with basically shutting the offense down on every single play in one series). He can both play up at the line and cover guys downfield.

Opinion-wise, I love his tougher style of play. He's one of those guys who wins most battles with his strength and athleticism.
 
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Zero2Cool

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The reports of Harris and Woodson not trusting Manuel spoke huge to me. It's not abnormal for team mates to sometimes doubt someone, but to doubt someone enough to let it slip out? That's huge, in my opinion.

He's young too, which I think works in his favor.
 

4thand26

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Bigby is a stud. I would take him over manual easily. Against bears, he seemed to cover TE well. Olsen made a couple nice catches against Bigby only because of his hieght. Maybe Bigby is short-dont know. I think that he puts some teeth into the d.
 

Yared-Yam

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Is there a link to a story about that Zero?

I trust you, I just don't remember that happening last year. I may have been drunk though.
 
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Zero2Cool

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Yared-Yam said:
Is there a link to a story about that Zero?

I trust you, I just don't remember that happening last year. I may have been drunk though.

No worries, decent people calling me out don't bother me at all. When I say something, I have full intentions of supporting it. Although, this JSOnline article is giving me some trouble lol

http://packerforum.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11720

There's one link that kind of touches on some of it.


edit, okay here's the specific quote, im still working on finding the actual article though
http://packerforum.com/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=11604

edit, okay found the damn article finally...
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=649588




Notes: Doing the safety dance
Bigby displaces Manuel as starter alongside Collins
By BOB McGINN
[email protected]
Posted: Aug. 20, 2007

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers didn't just hand Marquand Manuel's position to Atari Bigby. But clearly the strong safety job now is Bigby's to lose.

Second-year man Atari Bigby used a big exhibition game against Seattle to vault into the starting lineup at strong safety.

In a dramatic move Monday to shore up his weakest position on defense, coach Mike McCarthy announced that Bigby would start Thursday night against Jacksonville at Lambeau Field. As long as Bigby doesn't fall apart, it's almost a foregone conclusion that the Packers will enter the regular season with him opposite free safety Nick Collins.

"He's an ascending young player; I think we all agree with that," McCarthy said. "He has impact-play ability, which he showed against Seattle. It's something to get excited about."

Cornerback Jarrett Bush also was moved ahead of Patrick Dendy as the nickel back in the 4-2-5 defense. Dendy has held that job since Week 5 last season but Bush is a faster and seemingly more dynamic player.

Meanwhile, the Packers informed safety Marviel Underwood late Monday that he would be released today. A fourth-round draft choice in 2005, Underwood wasn't all the way back from reconstructive knee surgery last August.

McCarthy attempted to couch the significance of Bigby's insertion, saying the position hadn't been settled. But Bigby took every snap alongside Collins with the No. 1 defense Monday night, a far different situation from last week when he took only a few with the starters.

Manuel, who signed a five-year, $10 million deal in March 2006 to leave Seattle as an unrestricted free agent, worked with rookie Aaron Rouse on the No. 2 defense. The No. 3 pairing was Tyrone Culver and Charlie Peprah.

The Packers are expected to keep four safeties. Rouse, a third-round pick, is expected to be one of the backups, and Manuel easily could lose his roster spot to either Culver or Peprah.

Bigby, 5 feet 10½ inches and 211 pounds, came out of Central Florida as a free agent in 2005. After being cut by the Miami Dolphins and New York Jets, he joined the Packers in November of that year. In two seasons, he has played six snaps from scrimmage and 94 snaps on special teams.

"I think he clearly has the physical skills," McCarthy said. "I've never questioned that. We now want to see if he can do it from the beginning of the game."

A source close to the situation said cornerbacks Al Harris and Charles Woodson had been lobbying the coaches for Bigby to replace Manuel, a player whom they apparently no longer trusted.

In the nickel defense, Bush replaced Dendy at left cornerback. Woodson plays the slot and Harris remains on the right side.

The dependable Dendy, however, probably isn't out of the picture. Will Blackmon also has a chance for the job.

"For as good as (Bush) played on defense I thought he played better on special teams," McCarthy said. "He's a very physical football player. He's only going to get better."

Bush, claimed on waivers Sept. 3 from Carolina, played 15 snaps from scrimmage and 276 on special teams in '06.

The release of Underwood wasn't a surprise. He played poorly in Pittsburgh and then missed another open-field tackle against Seattle.

"I don't think he's all the way back to where he was last year," McCarthy said. "A great individual."

Underwood, who had a four-year, $1.815 million deal, will count $107,500 in "dead" money against the salary cap next year.

Injury list: Defensive end Mike Montgomery, the best of the four players who suffered medial collateral knee ligament damage Saturday, also was the most seriously hurt.

Montgomery will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery this week. The injury was to his right knee, the same knee that he had problems with in high school.

"It is an MCL injury," McCarthy said. "There's more things they want to look at."

Kick returner Shaun Bodiford's season and perhaps his career might have ended on the opening kickoff. Bodiford said he would miss four to six weeks with a sprained MCL. It's unlikely that the Packers would retain him on the 53-man roster. They also could reach an injury settlement and release him.

"Hopefully, this is going to make for a great story . . . hopefully with the Green Bay Packers or whoever," Bodiford said. "Hopefully, I can overcome it like I overcame a lot of other things in my life."
Bodiford, who admitted dealing drugs as a teenager growing up in the streets of Seattle, was injured when safety C.J. Wallace hit him on the knee.

"He should have been blocked and he didn't get blocked," Bodiford said. "He came clean off the edge of the wedge. It's OK, it happens. I trust my teammates."

Bodiford suffered almost the same injury to his left knee last August returning a kickoff for the Detroit Lions. The Lions kept Bodiford on their 53-man roster and he made it back by Week 4.

After being claimed by the Packers, the fearless, hard-charging Bodiford lasted three games before suffering a broken leg returning the opening kickoff in Minnesota.

Bodiford had been competing with Blackmon for the return job.
"I think he's just a great returner in general," Bodiford said, referring to Blackmon. "He has incredible vision and ability to break tackles. I think we both have the same attributes. But I don't think I would have got caught on that (83-yard) kickoff return."

Running back P.J. Pope still isn't anywhere close to returning after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery Aug. 6 in which his meniscus cartilage was repaired.

"We haven't really set a timetable," Pope said. "We just want to make sure I'm good when it's time to go. We're not trying to rush it."

If the Packers reach an injury settlement with Pope, there's a chance he might be re-signed by Chicago. The Packers signed Pope off Chicago's practice squad Oct. 31, and the Bears hated to lose him.

Running back DeShawn Wynn tested his injured thigh Monday afternoon in hopes of returning today. He hasn't practiced since Aug. 7.

"I'm missing out," Wynn said. "They've been trying to be real patient with me so these couple weeks don't turn into two, three months."

Fullback Ryan Powdrell said he would miss three to six weeks with a sprained MCL in his left knee. He was injured on his first play from scrimmage Saturday night when players rolled up on the back of his legs.

The Packers also lost tackle Orrin Thompson to a minor MCL injury.
Both Bodiford and Powdrell said their injuries had nothing to do with the new DD GrassMaster synthetic surface at Lambeau Field.

"I think it's just luck of the draw," general manager Ted Thompson said. "We played on the exact same field in Pittsburgh and had nothing, and I don't think the Seahawks had any injuries here."
 
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Zero2Cool

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Bigby is a stud. I would take him over manual easily. Against bears, he seemed to cover TE well. Olsen made a couple nice catches against Bigby only because of his hieght. Maybe Bigby is short-dont know. I think that he puts some teeth into the d.

5' 11" • 211 lbs
 
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In his entire career, Manuel has 1 INT.

In his first season as a starter, Bigby has matched that.

In his first 6 games as a Packer, Manuel recorded 37 tackles, 1 INT, 1 Pass Def., and 0 Forced Fumbles.

In his first 6 games as a Packer, Bigby has recorded 45 tackles, 1 INT, 2 Pass Def., and 2 Forced Fumbles. (Source: NFL Game Logs)

From observance (sorry I can't find a site that keeps tabs on missed tackles) Bigby has been a much more secure tackler than Manuel.

Also, one thing that took my by surprise was Al's response to a question about whether or not Bigby apologized for injuring him in the Eagles game week 1. Al said something to the effects of "he did, but he didn't need to... if anything I should apologize for getting in his way". I think that speaks volumes about how much teammates respect Bigby's attacking nature while playing.
 

pack_in_black

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I hope this doesn't go bad, but I'm curious...

Are we a better defense with Bigby? Or were we better with Manuel?

Using facts and/or opinions, state why. :)


Using facts here......

Q: Are we a better defense with Bigby?

A: Is sex better when had with women?

Q: Or were we better with Manuel?

A: Or was sex better when had with cactii?


You make the call.
 
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Zero2Cool

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pack_in_black said:
I hope this doesn't go bad, but I'm curious...

Are we a better defense with Bigby? Or were we better with Manuel?

Using facts and/or opinions, state why. :)


Using facts here......

Q: Are we a better defense with Bigby?

A: Is sex better when had with women?

Q: Or were we better with Manuel?

A: Or was sex better when had with cactii?


You make the call.

What's sex?
 

pack_in_black

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pack_in_black said:
Zero2Cool said:
I hope this doesn't go bad, but I'm curious...

Are we a better defense with Bigby? Or were we better with Manuel?

Using facts and/or opinions, state why. :)


Using facts here......

Q: Are we a better defense with Bigby?

A: Is sex better when had with women?

Q: Or were we better with Manuel?

A: Or was sex better when had with cactii?


You make the call.

What's sex?



A: Being 5-1 with no running game to speak of.

:D
 

Bobby Roberts

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There's really no comparison here. Bigby is better in coverage, he's a better tackler, he's more assignment sure and covers more ground. He plays with an infectious energy that lifts the whole secondary. He's solid against the run and the pass.

On the flip side, Manuel struggled in pass coverage, is slow, was a poor tackler and didn't communicate well.

'nough said.
 

BryanAschenbrenner

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Bigby sealed the Vikings game with that diving interception he had. That's more than manuel ever did or would have ever done for us.
 

Timmons

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Zero finally did it; a topic upon which all packerforum members can agree. A standing ovation is due.

Now quit bringing up Manuel, I just got over my nightmares.
 

Bobby Roberts

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Manual still plays for the pack, but he changed his name to Bush

That is far far from true. Bush is twice the player Manuel was! Bush gets picked on because our starting 4 DBs are so good. It's very tough to beat Harris and Woodson, especially with the support of Bigby and Collins. Therefore OC's gameplan to take advantage of our nickel back.

Bush is good, but still raw and needs to improve. Putting him in the same category of Manuel is obviously wrong.

GO PACK GO!!!
 
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Bobby Roberts said:
Bush is good, but still raw and needs to improve. Putting him in the same category of Manuel is obviously wrong.

While I agree putting them in the same category would be wrong, to be honest Bush looked a lot like Manuel last week when he whiffed on more tackles than a player should.

Thank goodness there was someone to fix Bush's mistakes, because if there wasn't he'd have been responsible for giving up big plays like Manuel too.
 

Bobby Roberts

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bush also almost turned the ball over on the last punt by the redskins.

Bush also created the fumble on a punt against the Eagles that was recovered by White in the endzone. I believe he was also part of the Eagles other fumbled punt late in that game.

Manuel had 16 bad games. Bush has had 1. Let's not crucify the player too soon here.
 

longtimefan

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all about da packers said:
Bobby Roberts said:
Bush is good, but still raw and needs to improve. Putting him in the same category of Manuel is obviously wrong.

While I agree putting them in the same category would be wrong, to be honest Bush looked a lot like Manuel last week when he whiffed on more tackles than a player should.

Thank goodness there was someone to fix Bush's mistakes, because if there wasn't he'd have been responsible for giving up big plays like Manuel too.


I may have spoke to soon, but the skin game was very bad for him..I ended up re-watching it today and he stood out like a sore thumb
 

pack_in_black

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bush also almost turned the ball over on the last punt by the redskins.


He also almost had a pick on a critical play. I can't remember when it was, but I do remember commenting on it in the chat.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but he is making plays, and I think its a reach to say that getting hit by a falling punt is "almost turning the ball over".
 

pack_in_black

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bush also almost turned the ball over on the last punt by the redskins.


He also almost had a pick on a critical play. I can't remember when it was, but I do remember commenting on it in the chat.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but he is making plays, and I think its a reach to say that getting hit by a falling punt is "almost turning the ball over".
 

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