Love vs. Willis

[red4tribe]

I’m seeing lots of discussion about this topic but it doesn’t have its own thread. Some people are claiming that Willis is better than Love and brings more to the table, while others are saying that claim is crazy and that backups have a splashy games here and there (like Matt Flynn).

What are your thoughts?

In the end, I think Willis is going to be a starter for someone else next year. Sad to see him go, and Gute fleeced the Titans in that deal, but I don’t see how he stays a backup next season.

 

[AKCheese]

I wish the best for him. Love is a top 10 QB with upside. Willis will be looking for a SHOT somewhere without a top 25 QB. Again, best wishes forward to him, like all those who pass through the Packer organization giving it their best effort.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I wish the best for him. Love is a top 10 QB with upside.

What upside? He really hasn't progressed over the past two seasons, so it's reasonable to conclude that he's hit his ceiling at this point. Fact is, his accuracy comes and goes, he's one of the least mobile QBs in the game. His pocket awareness is average and his escapability is poor. He doesn't handle pressure well at all most of the time. What does he bring to the table that Willis doesn't? Because it's clear what Malik brings that Love can't.

 

[longtimefan]

There has to be a reason why he was drafted 3rd round . But maybe now what ever those issues were are gone.

He has something that makes him stand out. Not sure what, he has done great

So while you (you in general) says fire Matt -the other side of your mouth needs to figure out if Matt and team has coached Willis to where he is now

 

[milani]

I’m seeing lots of discussion about this topic but it doesn’t have its own thread. Some people are claiming that Willis is better than Love and brings more to the table, while others are saying that claim is crazy and that backups have a splashy games here and there (like Matt Flynn).

What are your thoughts?

In the end, I think Willis is going to be a starter for someone else next year. Sad to see him go, and Gute fleeced the Titans in that deal, but I don’t see how he stays a backup next season.

QB in itself is not the concern. But QB health and defense is.

 

[Catamount1971]

Willis plays with more confidence than Love and is a lot more of a running threat. How many 50/50 balls does Love throw up there? Look at our bad losses against bad teams and look who had a bad game. This team is a mess and lacks leadership.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What upside? He really hasn't progressed over the past two seasons, so it's reasonable to conclude that he's hit his ceiling at this point. Fact is, his accuracy comes and goes, he's one of the least mobile QBs in the game. His pocket awareness is average and his escapability is poor. He doesn't handle pressure well at all most of the time. What does he bring to the table that Willis doesn't? Because it's clear what Malik brings that Love can't.

Can’t argue with this BA. IMO what we see is all we’ll see from JL. That’s not a bad thing or a dig. When healthy, this team is a SB contender and Love is good enough to get them there.

Favre and Rodgers could (almost) win games based on their respective performance. Love doesn’t have that intangible quality.

He’s a fine QB, but I don’t think he’s nearly as good as Favre and Rodgers. Love doesn’t have a signature playing style. I don’t quite know how to describe it.

The Love v Willis debate though makes no sense. GB knows what Love can do, and it’s enough. Willis certainly looks like a starter, and he will be next season.

There should be no “what if Willis was the starter instead of Love”. There is certainly a slim chance Willis is better than Love. But acting on that would be risky and foolish.

 

[Heyjoe4]

There has to be a reason why he was drafted 3rd round . But maybe now what ever those issues were are gone.

He has something that makes him stand out. Not sure what, he has done great

So while you (you in general) says fire Matt -the other side of your mouth needs to figure out if Matt and team has coached Willis to where he is now

Well said LTF. I don’t know what makes Willis special, but he is. Same for Love.

And yeah, I’m getting tired of the “fire MLF” comments. WTF he’s a good HC. He’s probably not the best HC in the North but so what?

This is a very talented team - especially when there are few injuries.

This year, I’d be happy with a first round W in Chicago.

 

[Heyjoe4]

QB in itself is not the concern. But QB health and defense is.

Yeah I think that’s right milani. I don’t like using injuries as an excuse but WTF the Packers have been clobbered.

Parsons is clearly the best player on D and Kraft is likely the best player on offense. They’ll be back next year, as will Gluten and MLF, and the Packers will be legit SB contenders.

Gluten has to fix the CB group this offseason. And some OL and DL depth is needed. It’s doable.

In the meantime, is it too much to wish for a first round W in Chicago? The football gods say no and while there won’t be a SB, there will be satisfaction in beating the smug, unlikable Ben Johnson - again….

 

[Pack fan098765]

What upside? He really hasn't progressed over the past two seasons, so it's reasonable to conclude that he's hit his ceiling at this point. Fact is, his accuracy comes and goes, he's one of the least mobile QBs in the game. His pocket awareness is average and his escapability is poor. He doesn't handle pressure well at all most of the time. What does he bring to the table that Willis doesn't? Because it's clear what Malik brings that Love can't.

Well said! J. Love will never win a SB. All he cares about is his big contract. He’s a backup QB at best. Willis is more accurate, mobile, much more decisive and a far better role out QB. Forgot to mention he sees the field much better. Gute has to save face reaching for this backup QB. We lose Willis and keep J. Love. Ugh!

 

[tynimiller]

Well said! J. Love will never win a SB. All he cares about is his big contract. He’s a backup QB at best. Willis is more accurate, mobile, much more decisive and a far better role out QB. Forgot to mention he sees the field much better. Gute has to save face reaching for this backup QB. We lose Willis and keep J. Love. Ugh!

This is a prime example of fans saying any BS that comes to their mind. Love only cares about his big contract? What? Does someone with that in mind play through some of injuries he’s had? Also there is zero chance in hell you can say that with a straight face to him or anyone close to the actual team - such comments make fans look like fools.

Willis was TERRIBLE in Tennessee, if he sees the field better than a Top 5 efficient QB in the league (Love) where in sam hell was that? I love Willis, think he is an incredible high class man who I don’t want to see leave but anyone with football IQ above one knows and recognizes the level of which Love is as a QB is above what Willis has shown - WHICH has been higher each of the last two years every time he goes out there; which is a testament to how awesome of a coach MLF is.

If Love and Willis both were due a contract there is a world for sure where one might say spend less and keep Willis and build rather than spend more for Love….but the fact the league and most know one is cheaper option is a testament to which is actually the better QB.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Willis will be on another team next year - book it. The comparison is moot at this point. I like Love and Willis both, but 1265 cannot afford both anymore as Willis is showing that he can play in this league.

 

[tynimiller]

QB in itself is not the concern. But QB health and defense is.

Yup, injuries happen but the issue for GB has been the severity of whom those injuries hit this year….

If someone said list your top 10 players before the season started and include Parsons….i am betting five of those guys are injured currently or have been, PLUS if you have Gary and Jacobs on your list BOTH have been incredibly less quality versions of themselves than should be.

My top10 would have been likely Parsons, Love, Watson, Tom, McKinney, Wyatt, Gary, Cooper, Jacobs, Kraft

Three injured for the year
Tom currently and most of the year injured
Gary and Cooper regressed
Jacobs hasn’t been healthy all year
Watson missed a ton due to injury
Even Love has the thumb/hand issue early he played through

Add in Jenkins who likely makes top 15 and it is not the number of injuries GB has seen it is the top shelf players they’ve been that are the bigger issue

 

[Magooch]

This one’s tough for me to assess because I just don’t think what we’re seeing out of Willis is going to be his “baseline” or “typical” level of performance - because with the way Willis has been playing, the question isn’t just “is Willis better than Love” but rather “is Willis the best QB in the league?” or even “is Willis going to be a Hall of Famer?”
The level he’s currently playing at is that of an ALL-TIME great. I suspect that is not going to be terribly sustainable.

Willis has a lot of good qualities and he is a likeable guy but I would not expect him to continue at his current level long-term. If you think he will sustain that level then by all means you should go ahead and jettison Love and go with Willis (and give him a 60m AAV contract while you’re at it. His current numbers are “worth it”). If you think he will not continue at that level, that’s harder to say.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Well said! J. Love will never win a SB. All he cares about is his big contract. He’s a backup QB at best.

I wouldn't say that. I completely believe he cares about winning. I'm also starting to believe this just happens to be the limits of his skills.

 

[BrokenArrow]

This is a prime example of fans saying any BS that comes to their mind. Love only cares about his big contract? What? Does someone with that in mind play through some of injuries he’s had? Also there is zero chance in hell you can say that with a straight face to him or anyone close to the actual team - such comments make fans look like fools.

Willis was TERRIBLE in Tennessee, if he sees the field better than a Top 5 efficient QB in the league (Love) where in sam hell was that?

This is just a confounding statement to make. Tennessee was a TERRIBLE team that was poorly coached. You judge a player by what he has done recently, and we have had 16+ quarters of play from him in a Packer uniform in which he has been excellent when called upon. I assume when you're talking about "Top 5 efficient QBs" you're referring to QBR or some stat like that? Well, in his limited time, but against quality competition, his QBR last year was 77 and this year is 93, so there's that.

 

[BrokenArrow]

This one’s tough for me to assess because I just don’t think what we’re seeing out of Willis is going to be his “baseline” or “typical” level of performance - because with the way Willis has been playing, the question isn’t just “is Willis better than Love” but rather “is Willis the best QB in the league?” or even “is Willis going to be a Hall of Famer?”
The level he’s currently playing at is that of an ALL-TIME great. I suspect that is not going to be terribly sustainable.

I disagree. The question IS can he be significantly and consistently better than Love. So far, he has been and the sample size continues to grow.

 

[tynimiller]

This is just a confounding statement to make. Tennessee was a TERRIBLE team that was poorly coached. You judge a player by what he has done recently, and we have had 16+ quarters of play from him in a Packer uniform in which he has been excellent when called upon. I assume when you're talking about "Top 5 efficient QBs" you're referring to QBR or some stat like that? Well, in his limited time, but against quality competition, his QBR last year was 77 and this year is 93, so there's that.

Nothing I’m saying is saying Willis right now is a bad QB, if I was a team like say the Colts who have a messed up room or honestly even some of the teams like the Falcons or Saints, I’m likely a lot more interested in him than what they have.

Or if Rams Stafford is going to retire or tells them he is in a year I’m likely trying to grab him but there isn’t a world where folks can ignore the level of play Love has produced and pretend Willis is playing leaps better than him.

 

[OldSchool101]

Nothing I’m saying is saying Willis right now is a bad QB, if I was a team like say the Colts who have a messed up room or honestly even some of the teams like the Falcons or Saints, I’m likely a lot more interested in him than what they have.

Or if Rams Stafford is going to retire or tells them he is in a year I’m likely trying to grab him but there isn’t a world where folks can ignore the level of play Love has produced and pretend Willis is playing leaps better than him.

This.
Also while Malik has had great success it’s still smaller sample? he’s been injured now. Because he’s a runner he’s going to take more punishment. He's s good short term strategy but He’s a long term risk for injury.

There is still a need for an athlete like him and if he gets on a team with a better OL he could be very effective. It’s about fit imo. Wouldn’t shock me to see him get a 2yr/$35-40mil type deal with ~$20Mil guar

 

[BrokenArrow]

Nothing I’m saying is saying Willis right now is a bad QB, if I was a team like say the Colts who have a messed up room or honestly even some of the teams like the Falcons or Saints, I’m likely a lot more interested in him than what they have.

Or if Rams Stafford is going to retire or tells them he is in a year I’m likely trying to grab him but there isn’t a world where folks can ignore the level of play Love has produced and pretend Willis is playing leaps better than him.

Most of us are talking in terms of ceiling. Love is 27 and he hasn't improved in the last 2 seasons. He is who he is. If you think that's enough to win a SB, fine. But to say that Willis isn't playing at least as well as Love has been is simply not true. And I don't think he's at his ceiling yet because every time he plays, he steps it up a notch. In 16+ quarters of play, he has a 86% completion percentage. I challenge you to cherry pick any 16 quarters over the last 3 seasons where Love has a combined completion % that high. Willis has done that without the luxury of cherry picking.

 

[tynimiller]

Most of us are talking in terms of ceiling. Love is 27 and he hasn't improved in the last 2 seasons. He is who he is. If you think that's enough to win a SB, fine. But to say that Willis isn't playing at least as well as Love has been is simply not true. And I don't think he's at his ceiling yet because every time he plays, he steps it up a notch. In 16+ quarters of play, he has a 86% completion percentage. I challenge you to cherry pick any 16 quarters over the last 3 seasons where Love has a combined completion % that high. Willis has done that without the luxury of cherry picking.

Hasn’t improved? You lost me there. Love easily has elevated his game.

You could win a SB with either IMO and a good defense with MLF’s offense.

 

[milani]

Yeah I think that’s right milani. I don’t like using injuries as an excuse but WTF the Packers have been clobbered.

Parsons is clearly the best player on D and Kraft is likely the best player on offense. They’ll be back next year, as will Gluten and MLF, and the Packers will be legit SB contenders.

Gluten has to fix the CB group this offseason. And some OL and DL depth is needed. It’s doable.

In the meantime, is it too much to wish for a first round W in Chicago? The football gods say no and while there won’t be a SB, there will be satisfaction in beating the smug, unlikable Ben Johnson - again….

Even if we pull off an upset in Chicago the next round would be even gloomier. The 3 West Coast teams would beat us to a pulp, especially the 9ers. These injuries have depleted our lines. The Ravens blocked us like a JV team. And they smothered our run game except Willis. What worries me is that these injuries will carry over into next season and we will start out 1-3 or 2-5 and come up short of anything by this time next season.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Hasn’t improved? You lost me there. Love easily has elevated his game.

Ok, I can just as easily say he hasn't improved in the last two years. Just making a statement doesn't make it true. Maybe I'm wrong. But can you quantify as to why? In what way he has improved since the end of 2023? It appears to me he reached his ceiling in November and December of 2023. He's pretty much been the same guy since then, and yes, I've seen every snap he has ever played in the NFL.

 

[tynimiller]

Ok, I can just as easily say he hasn't improved in the last two years. Just making a statement doesn't make it true. Maybe I'm wrong. But can you quantify as to why? In what way he has improved since the end of 2023? It appears to me he reached his ceiling in November and December of 2023. He's pretty much been the same guy since then, and yes, I've seen every snap he has ever played in the NFL.

Just look up nearly every advanced metric you want - Love has been awesome this year, borderline incredible overall.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Even if we pull off an upset in Chicago the next round would be even gloomier. The 3 West Coast teams would beat us to a pulp, especially the 9ers. These injuries have depleted our lines. The Ravens blocked us like a JV team. And they smothered our run game except Willis.

They smothered Jacobs. Wilson had success. They need to shelf Jacobs until next year.