All Capers Threads merged

[FrankRizzo]

If only our defense had been AVERAGE, last year vs SF, the year before vs NYG, the year before our Super Bowl vs Arizona, we might have had a little dynasty in there.
Just AVERAGE.

Our offense was historically great. I feel Capers and this defense have WASTED a nice chunk of time. Can't ever get that back.

But what will be best for next year and the next few years?

More Capers?

More 1st and 2nd round draft picks on Defense like:

Nick Perry, Jerel Worthy, Datone Jones?
We rely 100% on the draft to get better. How does that work when your top picks don't have any impact, (and some fans don't even expect them to?)

Rodgers and Lacy can't play defense.

Need a better coach, and better talent. Those ILBs are so far below average.

 

[Carl]

I may be in the minority, but I'm not convinced Capers should be gone. Maybe he's at fault, maybe he's not, but I don't know.

I need more than "the defense is bad, therefore it's Capers' fault." From my point of view as a fan, I have no idea when specific defensive plays should be run or not. I can't see a bad day of defense and specifically say it's on Capers and not any one of the many other defensive coaches. Maybe the linebackers coach was the last guy to go over specific plays with the linebackers right before a blown assignment. IMO, none of this can be determined by a fan. Only the organization can decide whether it's mostly on Capers.

Capers has had some very good seasons in Green Bay and some very bad ones. I have a hard time thinking his coaching ability changes from that much year to year. To me, that much variability says it's players. All of the best defenses right now have multiple playmakers like we had a few years ago when our defense was very good. No matter who is the defensive coach next season, he needs more playmakers in order to make it a lot better.

Also, every game in which the defense struggles, is see a lot of player errors. Last week is a perfect example when three big plays on three Bears TD drives happened because of player mistakes. The Eagles game is another perfect example when all three Eagles TDs came from big player errors. Could those errors be on Capers not teaching/coaching effectively? Maybe, but again I cannot determine that.

Finally, if it is on Capers, it's the play calling, and/or installing the scheme/making sure the players understand it, but not on the scheme itself. The scheme is not the issue as it's the same **** Lebeau as run successfully for years.

 

[adambr2]

If there are any issues, it isnt because he writes things down and not using a computer.

IMO that's simplistic. Consider time management, for one. How much more can a coordinator accomplish when he uses all assets available? I don't think it would be unfair to assume that it takes Capers an hour to do some tasks what others who use the technology available take 5 minutes. How many resources is he neglecting by completing rejecting anything to do with technological means?

At my job, we used to not use computers. Now we do. Most of the guys here are old timers who hate it. But we're required to. Why? Because our job would take a lot longer and be a lot harder without it. I'm willing to bet that there are aspects of Capers' job that fall into that category.

More than that, I just want to know that he is open to change and new methods and ideas, because whether he likes it or not, its a changed and changing league. And his playoff games in the 2009, 2011, and 2012 seasons do indeed show signs of being out coached, out thought, and just left in the dust.

More than that, I would

 

[Bignutz]

Point is our defense pretty much sucks! Right or wrong it's the coach that bears the ultimate blame. MM isn't going anywhere. That leave Capers.

 

[Carl]

IMO that's simplistic. Consider time management, for one. How much more can a coordinator accomplish when he uses all assets available? I don't think it would be unfair to assume that it takes Capers an hour to do some tasks what others who use the technology available take 5 minutes. How many resources is he neglecting by completing rejecting anything to do with technological means?

At my job, we used to not use computers. Now we do. Most of the guys here are old timers who hate it. But we're required to. Why? Because our job would take a lot longer and be a lot harder without it. I'm willing to bet that there are aspects of Capers' job that fall into that category.

More than that, I just want to know that he is open to change and new methods and ideas, because whether he likes it or not, its a changed and changing league. And his playoff games in the 2009, 2011, and 2012 seasons do indeed show signs of being out coached, out thought, and just left in the dust.

More than that, I would

IMO, the last two playoff losses are not on Capers. In 2011, one TD was on a hail mary and another was after a fumble return that put the ball deep in Packers territory. Even if the rest of the 24 points were all on Capers, 24 is an average day and is enough more often than not with Rodgers. Plus, three other turnovers gave the Giants offense plenty of chances.

Last season, I think whenever a QB runs for so many yards untouched, there are some major errors by the players. Like Walden on Kapernick's long TD run. Plus, Ross' fumble gave the Niners another TD that made the score worse on Capers. As I've said above in another post, maybe that's Capers' failure to coach the players correctly, but that's not on scheme or play calling.

Looking back at the Arizona loss, I don't remember much, but I do remember Woodson being abused by Fitzgerald.

 

[FrankRizzo]

I've been happy for how things turned out with Capers until the last couple years and I'm certainly not losing sleep over missing on some of those other top choices..

This is his 5th year with us.
What years were, are you happy with him?
His first year wear we were eliminated from the playoffs in a game Rodgers scored 45 points on at Arizona?
That defense gave up more TD passes to Warner than he had incomplete passes.
The 2010 defense was pretty good yes, and lo and behold, a Super Bowl.

2011, 2012, and 2013 defenses have been bad and terrible.

Raise your goals.

 

[Carl]

This is his 5th year with us.
What years were, are you happy with him?
His first year wear we were eliminated from the playoffs in a game Rodgers scored 45 points on at Arizona?
That defense gave up more TD passes to Warner than he had incomplete passes.
The 2010 defense was pretty good yes, and lo and behold, a Super Bowl.

2011, 2012, and 2013 defenses have been bad and terrible.

Raise your goals.

The defense was also top 5 in the league his first season. Yeah it ended poorly, but it was a good defensive season. The 2011 team had a bad offensive performance in the playoffs. Does that mean their offense wasn't good? Same with the 11th ranked defense last season. Every team has bad games. The Packers just happened to have them at bad times.

How do you know those games are all on Capers? I can give plenty of examples of player errors in those games. Do you have examples of poor play calls or bad schemes or other evidence against him?

I've still never seen anyone give any specific reasons he should be gone other than the defense hasn't done well. There are a lot more people involved in this defense than just Capers, including many other coaches. Maybe it is on Capers, but I'd like to see evidence that points it right on him.

 

[jaybadger82]

This is his 5th year with us.
What years were, are you happy with him?
His first year wear we were eliminated from the playoffs in a game Rodgers scored 45 points on at Arizona?
That defense gave up more TD passes to Warner than he had incomplete passes.
The 2010 defense was pretty good yes, and lo and behold, a Super Bowl.

2011, 2012, and 2013 defenses have been bad and terrible.

Raise your goals.

To answer your question: Like most fans, I was content with what our defense had become in 2010. The results speak for themselves. We started out 15-0 in 2011, with the defense continuing to force turnovers at a good rate. In this regard, the defense complimented our offense well: the turnovers gave us plenty of opportunities for the offense to score (a defensive approach used successfully by the Saints in 2009 and, to a lesser extent, the Colts in 2006).

The continued decline in our defense since the end of the 2011 season (despite adding several draft picks) have me convinced that a change in coordinators is our best option for giving the defense a shot in the arm. I've previously expressed my desire for a new defensive coordinator.

With regards to my goals: You're already addressing someone firmly in the "Fire Capers" camp and telling me to raise my goals just seems like you're looking for a fight. I suggest you direct your little crusade toward those who are unconvinced about replacing Capers at this point (i.e., get off my case).

 

[adambr2]

The defense was also top 5 in the league his first season. Yeah it ended poorly, but it was a good defensive season. The 2011 team had a bad offensive performance in the playoffs. Does that mean their offense wasn't good? Same with the 11th ranked defense last season. Every team has bad games. The Packers just happened to have them at bad times.

How do you know those games are all on Capers? I can give plenty of examples of player errors in those games. Do you have examples of poor play calls or bad schemes or other evidence against him?

I've still never seen anyone give any specific reasons he should be gone other than the defense hasn't done well. There are a lot more people involved in this defense than just Capers, including many other coaches. Maybe it is on Capers, but I'd like to see evidence that points it right on him.

How is one supposed to give you specific evidence that points right at him? You're not going to see him suit up, so we can only go with the evidence given. Someone pointed out a disturbing trend among Capers'-led defenses of peaking early and then worsening with time. So far in his 5th year, that seems to be continuing here.

There are constant communication breakdowns on this team in the secondary and on defense in general. We also have seen Capers repeatedly get burned on 3rd and long with a 3 man rush. Nothing that you couldn't chalk up to player mental error, but when it happens repeatedly, I think you have to look a little deeper. No one is going to have a smoking gun on this, but I think it's pretty clear that the defense needs an overhaul and that generally starts at the top.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

IMO, the last two playoff losses are not on Capers.

Several players came out after the loss to the Niners last year and said they didn't even prepare for the read option before the game. IMO that's totally on Capers.

 

[Carl]

How is one supposed to give you specific evidence that points right at him? You're not going to see him suit up, so we can only go with the evidence given. Someone pointed out a disturbing trend among Capers'-led defenses of peaking early and then worsening with time. So far in his 5th year, that seems to be continuing here.

There are constant communication breakdowns on this team in the secondary and on defense in general. We also have seen Capers repeatedly get burned on 3rd and long with a 3 man rush. Nothing that you couldn't chalk up to player mental error, but when it happens repeatedly, I think you have to look a little deeper. No one is going to have a smoking gun on this, but I think it's pretty clear that the defense needs an overhaul and that generally starts at the top.

That's exactly my point. I'm not saying the defense isn't on Capers. It could be, but I don't know. I'm saying nobody here can directly show it is. Only people inside the organization can tell that.

Several players came out after the loss to the Niners last year and said they didn't even prepare for the read option before the game. IMO that's totally on Capers.

The Niners didn't run much read option before the game so it wasn't a priority to work against. It's also a really simple concept to defend which a player like Walden should have picked up quickly. The OLB has the QB. Not much to it. I could have been closer to Kaepernick on his long TD run.

 

[red4tribe]

How do you know those games are all on Capers? I can give plenty of examples of player errors in those games. Do you have examples of poor play calls or bad schemes or other evidence against him?

I've still never seen anyone give any specific reasons he should be gone other than the defense hasn't done well. There are a lot more people involved in this defense than just Capers, including many other coaches. Maybe it is on Capers, but I'd like to see evidence that points it right on him.

Wait, what? Isn't the job of the DC to make sure the defense does well? What other reason does he need to be fired, excluding some sort of criminal activity? I think the defense not doing well year after year is the best possible reason to argue that he should be fired.

Capers time has run out here. We had an okay year defensively in 2009(yeah, statistically we were very good but we were burned time after time by good QB's) 2010 it was great and since then the defense has been crap. Last years defense was not as good as the numbers show IMO. The defense has shown no signs of getting better, and just seeing how every defense Capers has run in the past has declined as time has gone on only convinces me he should be gone. A defense declining over time at multiple coaching jobs is a sign that he doesn't adapt properly. He's been seriously out coached in numerous playoff games. And saying players are at fault is somewhat ridiculous, I think, we have had the same problems year after year on defense, and eventually the blame isn't on the players, it's on the coaching staff. Maybe this isn't the most talented defense, but the coaching staff's job is the fix player errors, and now that we've seen the same player errors over and over again, the staff isn't doing its job.

Let me add one more thing; Capers' defense, which is supposed to be based off of forcing turnovers has produced 11 interceptions this year, good for 26th in the league.

 

[longtimefan]

Let me add one more thing; Capers' defense, which is supposed to be based off of forcing turnovers has produced 11 interceptions this year, good for 26th in the league.

2012 had 18...good for 9th
2011 had 31...good for 1st next was the Niners with only 23
2010 had 24...good for 2nd

 

[red4tribe]

2012 had 18...good for 9th
2011 had 31...good for 1st next was the Niners with only 23
2010 had 24...good for 2nd

I'm aware, and now even that has fallen off, so where is any benefit of his defensive style?

 

[longtimefan]

I'm aware, and now even that has fallen off, so where is any benefit of his defensive style?

How many younger players are on this team compared to those other years.

That would explain the HUGE drop off

That isnt me saying rookies or younger guys is an excuse, but it makes sense why it has happened

 

[red4tribe]

How many younger players are on this team compared to those other years.

That would explain the HUGE drop off

That isnt me saying rookies or younger guys is an excuse, but it makes sense why it has happened

Yes, we were quite young last year as well and still produced INT's pretty well. Missing Hayward might have hurt to total a little bit, but the drop off has indeed been quite dramatic.

The point I'm trying to make though is that this is just one more bad thing on top of a lot of other bad things. And I think it's a few too many bad things for Capers to come back next year.

 

[Carl]

Wait, what? Isn't the job of the DC to make sure the defense does well? What other reason does he need to be fired, excluding some sort of criminal activity? I think the defense not doing well year after year is the best possible reason to argue that he should be fired.

Capers time has run out here. We had an okay year defensively in 2009(yeah, statistically we were very good but we were burned time after time by good QB's) 2010 it was great and since then the defense has been crap. Last years defense was not as good as the numbers show IMO. The defense has shown no signs of getting better, and just seeing how every defense Capers has run in the past has declined as time has gone on only convinces me he should be gone. A defense declining over time at multiple coaching jobs is a sign that he doesn't adapt properly. He's been seriously out coached in numerous playoff games. And saying players are at fault is somewhat ridiculous, I think, we have had the same problems year after year on defense, and eventually the blame isn't on the players, it's on the coaching staff. Maybe this isn't the most talented defense, but the coaching staff's job is the fix player errors, and now that we've seen the same player errors over and over again, the staff isn't doing its job.

Let me add one more thing; Capers' defense, which is supposed to be based off of forcing turnovers has produced 11 interceptions this year, good for 26th in the league.

Looking at just this season, the d-line is very bad at getting off blocks. The linebackers minus a good Matthews for many games are average at best. The secondary outside of Shields is nothing special. Shields is the only defensive player right now I can say is really good.

IMO, that's a tough assignment on any coordinater. Every good defense has much more talent.

"And saying players are at fault is somewhat ridiculous," So every mistake is on Capers? Shields mistimimg a jump. Giving up two TDs against Philly with double coverage. Burnett messing up a very simple cover 2 concept. All his fault? I don't know how a coach prevents those.

 

[13 Times Champs]

I would like to see team defensive rankings vs the age of their players on defense. My guess is that there is no clear corelation to age. I believe we would find that some teams with young rosters play well on defense and some don't. And some with old rosters play well on defense and some don't.

 

[longtimefan]

No matter what we say, think or see, the Packers are the ones that know the true issues with the defense. I am all for a new Dc and Capers ride off into the sunset..

But if Capers isnt fired, posting 30 threads wont cure anything other than being deleted, merged and or locked lol

 

[red4tribe]

Looking at just this season, the d-line is very bad at getting off blocks. The linebackers minus a good Matthews for many games are average at best. The secondary outside of Shields is nothing special. Shields is the only defensive player right now I can say is really good.

IMO, that's a tough assignment on any coordinater. Every good defense has much more talent.

"And saying players are at fault is somewhat ridiculous," So every mistake is on Capers? Shields mistimimg a jump. Giving up two TDs against Philly with double coverage. Burnett messing up a very simple cover 2 concept. All his fault? I don't know how a coach prevents those.

If defending Capers has come down to the timing of a jump by a cornerback, he really shouldn't have his job. The point is, these player errors are occurring over and over again. If Capers has failed to rectify these repetitive errors year after year(by various players), clearly he is not doing his job adequately and should be terminated.

 

[Carl]

If defending Capers has come down to the timing of a jump by a cornerback, he really shouldn't have his job. The point is, these player errors are occurring over and over again. If Capers has failed to rectify these repetitive errors year after year(by various players), clearly he is not doing his job adequately and should be terminated.

Can't attribute all player errors to Capers when there are lots of defensive coaches other than him.

Players are much more important than plays. When this defense had more talent, Capers was successful.

 

[red4tribe]

Can't attribute all player errors to Capers when there are lots of defensive coaches other than him.

Players are much more important than plays. When this defense had more talent, Capers was successful.

And those other defensive coaches report to Capers, who pretty much has free reign of the defense.

 

[Carl]

And those other defensive coaches report to Capers, who pretty much has free reign of the defense.

Good point. Got me there.

I'll say this though. There's no guarantee a new DC would be better. We could end up like Dallas or Chicago and be much worse. There's as much risk as there is reward.

 

[red4tribe]

Good point. Got me there.

I'll say this though. There's no guarantee a new DC would be better. We could end up like Dallas or Chicago and be much worse. There's as much risk as there is reward.

You are correct, we definitely might not be better. At this point though, I'd like to take my chances. I just don't see us being any worse than we have been. The defense has been borderline abysmal this year, so I think most likely, the defense would be improved at least a little bit.

 

[FrankRizzo]

.......Every team has bad games. The Packers just happened to have them at bad times.

How do you know those games are all on Capers?

Well, Marty Schottenheimer went 14-2 with the Chargers but lost the playoff game because his idiot player made a huge mistake. And the coach was fired.

Capers bears the ultimate responsibility.
Perhaps his defense can, finally today in a playoff game, NOT happen to have that bad game in a bad time.
I sure hope so.