What is going on with Rodgers?

[longtimefan]

I am manager at one of the top 20 companies in the world... And Ill tell you this. If I looked at employees with the disgust and disdain that Rodgers does to his peers. I'd be fired no matter how good I was at my job. Especially if there were others in viewing my work. As a leader you are expected to help bring up the level of your employees, not make them afraid of disappointing you.

These are all grown men, and yelling at them isn't going to make them run faster, or catch better. Instead of letting their mind be free and make plays they are now worried, if I don't catch this he is going to be PISSED.

A lot better way to do is to encourage, say you will get the ball in a better spot or you are looking at them on the next play. Hit that route hard and Ill have the ball on you. Instill confidence in them. That is how you get the most of people. This isn't a secret, there are thousands of leadership book out there, and I can guarantee that none of them recommend embarrassing your employees or peers in front of others. None of them recommend you looking down on them. None of them recommend you bringing your concerns to people not involved directly in the situation.

These are grown adults with kids of their own. Yelling at them like children doesn't tighten a bond. That's not leadership and not someone anyone would want to work for.

I seen you mention Brady a few times and how he is better at being a leader than Rodgers...

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-yells-receivers-jets-pats-2013-9

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http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=89DFE777CA1DFF851C7189DFE777CA1DFF851C71

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000243422/Brady-s-boiling-point

Why is this okay in your eyes for Brady to do it, but when Rodgers does it you have issues?

And imo--what Brady is doing in these clips, is far worse than Rodgers

 

[longtimefan]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...acks-aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-wr-barbs

Woodson AFTER cut

In the interview, Woodson praised Rodgers' leadership, especially during the 2010 season, when the Packers won Super Bowl XLV.

"Don't get me started on the Super Bowl run," Woodson said. "I mean, how brilliant was that guy during that run? There was no question about his leadership then."

 

[Tacklynn]

It is interesting that the organizational behavior, interpersonal, and psychological aspect of the game has taken center stage. I also wonder with all the recent news on head injuries if some players (not just on this team) are not as gung-ho and motivated to bang heads as they might have been in the past.

In contrast to the leadership and camaraderie issues discussed here, I saw that the Carolina Panthers all went out to Star Wars together. Those off the field bonds matter on the field. Of course wasn't it the Oakland A's that used to beat each other up in the locker room and then go out win lots of games?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Great clips LTF.....thanks for sharing. I didn't realize just how good of a leader Brady was until I saw them, but then again, I really only care what happens with the Packers.

 

[red4tribe]

You know for someone who claims to have no agenda regarding Rodgers, you sure do post a lot about his off-field behavior. How does Rodgers being emotional on the field or how he talks to the media show a lack of commitment? The former could be indicative of commitment and the latter really doesn't matter much in that regard. And BTW I see a bit of envy in your post: Does it bother you Rodgers is rich and famous? If not, why mention it?

Lombardi was a genius with regard to leadership and motivating others, and he didn’t coddle his players as you suggest. Instead he loudly berated, publicly embarrassed, and publicly and sometimes privately encouraged them. Read Jerry Kramer’s books and quotes from other players and you’ll know his genius was in knowing what form of motivation was needed by each player. Of course I’m not saying Rodgers’ is engaging in this kind of motivation. Only that the one size fits all leadership/motivation that may work well in middle management of a corporation doesn’t translate to a football field.

BTW, as I remember the Super Bowl 45 team the team leader was clearly Woodson. And the leader of the offense was clearly Rodgers. But I understand why you wouldn't want to acknowledge that.

I do not completely disagree with you, but I think it's important to put Lombardi's behavior in the context of the times. That was fifty years ago, and all of those players are/would be in their late 70s or early 80s today. Every generation is different, and I don't think that kind of style goes over well today, which is why there are few hardliner coaches left.

 

[Un4GivN]

Sure, it’s just your interest in QBs and CBs . C’mon look at the volume and emotion/enthusiasm you put into the subject of Rodgers compared to your other posts. May as well just admit it, it’s obvious for anyone who cares to see. People are people and human nature hasn’t changed in 60 years. Humans are humans, right? Of course yelling at corporate employees like Lombardi yelled at his players isn’t appropriate but some need tough love and some need encouragement with most in between those extremes. If you attempt to motivate all of them in the same way, you aren’t a good leader IMO. If you are offended by my referencing your job in middle management don’t bring it up! I didn’t investigate your life – you posted about your job. You know why you don’t post about what I do for a living? Because I’ve never posted about it. And BTW, I’m not dismissing your statement; I’m dismissing your attacks on Rodgers’ character because I see obvious bias in them, which you reinforce with almost every post on the subject. Here you go with the “magical” thing again. You admitted to misstating this previously writing that I thought McCarthy’s play-calling was “magical”, and then apologized after you were corrected, remember? What does it say about your argument when you repeat this kind of exaggeration? And BTW, don’t ever complain about words being put in your mouth when you engage in that very thing again here. IOW, point out where I posted anything like, “there is something magical about leading football players”. Show me where Driver was viewed as the leader of the offense.

Dang this line is getting long to answer I will do my best.

First point - I am done with this one... it has been brought up to nausea at this point. Despite all the positives I throw out there about him. My reference to him as a leader must be a vendetta against him. It's funny how you never bring the good things I say up about him when making these points. Can we agree to disagree on this? Not really related to the topic nor is it of that much interest to be honest. It's just a way to divert attention away from my points.

Two - you are right... 6 types of personalities. All motivated in different ways. Also agree with your point of humans not changing in 60 years but the one thing you forget is our knowledge on how to do it correctly has. Lombardi was an amazing coach. Doesn't mean he did everything perfect either. Also a coach and not a player, as I said... These things aren't related with what I was talking about.

Three - I don't mind you commenting on my job, you can come to work with me for lunch one day if you want. That's not the part I care about. It's about the tone of which you talk about someones career... This statement

"Only that the one size fits all leadership/motivation that may work well in middle management of a corporation doesn’t translate to a football field."

Is full of ignorance, incorrect and demeaning.

Four - This time I won't admit I am wrong and used it purposefully writing you back for you to catch. Since you only seem to comment on portions of things you think you can refute. In this context it is being used to assimilate you contrived differences between "Football players" and every other human in the world. As if there is something "magical" about how their minds comprehend things that makes talking to them different. I stand by my word usage 100% as i did it on purpose. As this relates to point 3 where you think running people in football is totally unrelated to other aspects of life. See

Five - Here you go big guy....

"Donald gave an emotional speech at halftime that motivated the team and helped them hang on to a memorable 31-25 win over the Pittsburgh Steelers. “He wanted to go back in, but he couldn’t,” said Packers wide receiver Jordy Nelson. “We said, ‘We’re going to make plays and this man’s leaving with a ring.’ ”

http://donalddriver80.com/super-bowl-champion

Ill also add... Driver stuff is in here too... Also not from DD website might be a little more believable.

"A vocal leader, Woodson delivered a rousing speech after the Packers dispatched the Chicago Bears in the N.F.C. championship game; it was well received and often quoted by his teammates in the days leading to the Super Bowl. Noting that the Bears’ first fan, President Obama, would not be coming to the Super Bowl, Woodson said the Packers would have to go to the White House after beating the Steelers."


This is what we are missing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/07/sports/football/07crouse-super-bowl-packers.html?_r=0

It was no secret this was everywhere about he uplifted the team. Rodgers played great, no doubt. Amazing performance. But if you tell me he's the heart and soul of that team. NO WAY.

You do a good job of choosing your battles wisely and trying to only grab information that you think is handy to tear apart. I do enjoy the duels though.

 

[longtimefan]

I do not completely disagree with you, but I think it's important to put Lombardi's behavior in the context of the times. That was fifty years ago, and all of those players are/would be in their late 70s or early 80s today. Every generation is different, and I don't think that kind of style goes over well today, which is why there are few hardliner coaches left.

I dont agree with the Lombardi reference either..

Little back story..

My highschool football team in 82 , 83 and 84 the head coach was very old school..In fact he was the hc in the late 60's.

He gave an interview about coaching in different times. He explained the 1st time, he could tell a guy to go get a haircut, and they would. He just laughed when they asked if he could do that now (in the 84 news paper article)

Times change, and what works once doesnt mean it would work many years later

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I seen you mention Brady a few times and how he is better at being a leader than Rodgers...

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-yells-receivers-jets-pats-2013-9

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=89DFE777CA1DFF851C7189DFE777CA1DFF851C71

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000243422/Brady-s-boiling-point

Why is this okay in your eyes for Brady to do it, but when Rodgers does it you have issues?

And imo--what Brady is doing in these clips, is far worse than Rodgers

Brady says the right things when the Mic is in front of him, but he is a manchild. Has a temper and throws a fit like a 5 year old. But so do many players and coaches.

 

[Un4GivN]

I seen you mention Brady a few times and how he is better at being a leader than Rodgers...

http://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-yells-receivers-jets-pats-2013-9

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=89DFE777CA1DFF851C7189DFE777CA1DFF851C71

http://www.nfl.com/videos/new-england-patriots/0ap2000000243422/Brady-s-boiling-point

Why is this okay in your eyes for Brady to do it, but when Rodgers does it you have issues?

And imo--what Brady is doing in these clips, is far worse than Rodgers

Doesn't make it better... So lets go through your examples

1st Ill comment on this on 4 they are the same thing.

2nd one is once again a coach and in no way related to the point. Still poor choice to do this and it was talked about for weeks. But has no bearing on his players see him. Leaders do challenge authority and while not great time to do it. 1000x better than yelling at a guy on the field with you.

3rd one - Unless its pulling up the wrong thing it's just says Brady expects a lot... Well ok. Duh?

4th one - In fairness this is the closest thing I can see to what Rodgers does.... But two differences. One he is sitting next to his wide receivers on the sidelines. Does Rodgers ever do that? I always found that odd. Two, if you read his lips he says "WIDE OPEN" He wasn't mad at the receiver... He was mad at himself for missing the route and a free touchdown. Dumb announcer jump to conclusions when that wasn't even what he was mad about. Thus a million times different than Rodgers throwing a tantrum at a wide receiver.

 

[Un4GivN]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp...acks-aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-wr-barbs

Woodson AFTER cut

What does woodson have to do with anything... Love the man to death. But he didn't go to meetings with Aaron, he didn't go in the huddle with Aaron, he didn't get balls thrown to him from Aaron. Look at those people. The people actually involved in the offense, that have to deal with him day in and day out.

Side note there was some nice stuff in there. But I think I said this before... I have never thought he was a great leader. I think other players did that for him. BUT this side of Aaron has only been apparent during the last 2-3 years even a couple season after the super bowl I didn't see it. That's just the honest truth. Obviously frustration has a lot to do with it.

 

[longtimefan]

Leaders berate their superiors? I will go to my boss tomorrow and scream at him about something..

www.packerforum.com/find-new/4579445/posts

Driver added: "I don't see anything he's done wrong as a leader. I think he has handled himself well. He's been a pro's pro since he came into the league. So I don't think that's ever going to change. . . .

No matter how much you say he is GREAT...your passion is on fire when you talk about his lack of leadership..

So what we see, is you do a bias for his "lack of leadership skill" You can disagree-- but there are more than a handful that see it...

And for me, your definition of a leader and others definition can be different....It doesnt mean neither is right or wrong

Only those in the locker room and on the team truly know.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And to deny Tom Brady even a spot as one of the best ever is absurdly homer in my mind...


Brady - is the true sense of a leader. He gets angry just like anyone else, but puts it on himself more often than not even if it isn't his fault. No ex-player (that I know of) ever talks bad about him. Nothing but praise. He is also a proven winner.

I'm not trying to compare the as full careers... That impossible given the years between them. And Aaron is no where near Brady at this point in a career standpoint. But is it crazy to think Aaron could learn some things from Brady as well. Instead of acting like he is perfect and everyone else around him needs to change?

As I said, I don't really follow other teams and their players, Tom Brady being one of them. However, you mention his name in numerous posts, comparing his leadership qualities to Aaron's. I've looked at the clips that LTF posted, have you? Still want me to believe your conviction that TB is "The True Sense of a Leader"?

 

[longtimefan]

What does woodson have to do with anything... Love the man to death. But he didn't go to meetings with Aaron, he didn't go in the huddle with Aaron, he didn't get balls thrown to him from Aaron. Look at those people. The people actually involved in the offense, that have to deal with him day in and day out.

Woodson played with him?? and I am willing to guess that Woody talked to offensive players..But since you dont want to believe a future HOF



www.packerforum.com/find-new/4579445/posts

here is Jones and DJ Williams

For people to question his leadership is ridiculous," Jones said. "He's a natural-born leader, not just by what he says, but how he carries himself, how he plays the game, how he handles certain situations. Everybody in this locker room looks up to him as a leader. Everybody in this locker room believes in him."

To review, Jones failed to flatten off his route against the Bears, leading to Tim Jennings' interception. Cameras shining brightly, Rodgers lashed out at Jones. The quarterback later apologized for showing his emotions, though Jones told him there was no need to apologize.

He didn't have a problem with it, taking responsibility for the poor route.

Aaron Rodgers and his teammates lining up for the next play. All 10 of them. A clueless Williams ran onto the field about a day late and Rodgers called a timeout. Coach Mike McCarthy chewed Williams out. Position coach Ben McAdoo chewed Williams out.

Rodgers? Not quite. As Williams recalls, the quarterback told him, "No big deal. I was going to call a timeout anyways."

"He knows who he's talking to," Williams said, "and who can handle what."


And in the meeting room, Williams added, Rodgers is "very engaged" and that he "takes care of his players and has us prepared to play." His leadership is rooted in an attention to detail.

 

[Un4GivN]

Leaders berate their superiors? I will go to my boss tomorrow and scream at him about something..

www.packerforum.com/find-new/4579445/posts


No matter how much you say he is GREAT...your passion is on fire when you talk about his lack of leadership..

So what we see, is you do a bias for his "lack of leadership skill" You can disagree-- but there are more than a handful that see it...

And for me, your definition of a leader and others definition can be different....It doesnt mean neither is right or wrong

Only those in the locker room and on the team truly know.

Sure you can if that is acceptable at your work... Go for it. There are better ways to get what you want though. And as I said the true point of it... I can guarantee you that no one you work with as an equal will give two *****. Doesn't affect them. Different scenario completely I don't get how people can't see that.

I did the same thing with Abbrederis... Check my recent post. You will find it. Get back to me about it, and post it here if i did or did not do the same damn thing.

Funny you ignored how I refuted each one of those clips... And the one closest to Aaron is Brady yelling at himself not the receiver. But ya let forget that and think Im an Aaron hater lol

I hate it, especially when mods have to make something personal. Even if I did hate Aaron, like he stole my wife. If my points are valid. Why does it matter? It doesn't change anything?

Lastly umm... definition of leader is what you make of it. Easy as that. Can you lead by example? Sure, definitely not the optimal for performance and has its flaws but it can help. There are books out there if you want to read about it. There are scientifically proven better ways to lead. I am not just making this up. lol

 

[Un4GivN]

Woodson played with him?? and I am willing to guess that Woody talked to offensive players..But since you dont want to believe a future HOF



www.packerforum.com/find-new/4579445/posts

here is Jones and DJ Williams

This one i like! This is great stuff!

When was it? More than 2 years ago would be my guess... Since I have already made this point 9 times about it only being the last couple of years. But when I bring up the link it goes to the first page of news feed so i can't see a date.

 

[Un4GivN]

As I said, I don't really follow other teams and their players, Tom Brady being one of them. However, you mention his name in numerous posts, comparing his leadership qualities to Aaron's. I've looked at the clips that LTF posted, have you? Still want me to believe your conviction that TB is "The True Sense of a Leader"?

Yep they are posted right above your comment and explain each one... Please read them and get back to me.

 

[longtimefan]

Doesn't make it better... So lets go through your examples



3rd one - Unless its pulling up the wrong thing it's just says Brady expects a lot... Well ok. Duh?

Yes the randy moss one was mistake

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...lle-jaguars/LFsG317AxHlUfZ3EIJoy1H/story.html

Brady wasn’t filled with holiday spirit after the win. An irate Brady could be heard upbraiding the team in the locker room following the game, with several expletives mixed in for emphasis. Multiple sources who were in the locker room confirmed that the franchise quarterback lit into his team after a lackluster performance.

Is this where you say...this doesnt count because it was in the locker room?

So here is a game he did it

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243444/article/tom-brady-i-need-to-improve-my-body-language

NFL Media's Michael Irvin was highly critical of Brady, who was demonstrative on the field and on the sideline. Irvin, a Hall of Fame wide receiver, said Brady should be more supportive of his wideouts, and the quarterback agreed with the sentiment.

"I've got to do a better job with my body language," Brady said after the game. "I can definitely improve on that. I wouldn't say that's a real strong point of mine right now."

But to be honest, I am expecting you to discredit these two links

 

[Un4GivN]

Yes the randy moss one was mistake

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...lle-jaguars/LFsG317AxHlUfZ3EIJoy1H/story.html



Is this where you say...this doesnt count because it was in the locker room?

So here is a game he did it

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243444/article/tom-brady-i-need-to-improve-my-body-language




But to be honest, I am expecting you to discredit these two links

Time for a surprise I 100% agree! And even Brady agreed. I didn't say he was infallible leader, no one is. He admitted that it is counterproductive on his part. He was wrong and knew it. He didn't need anyone to defend him. Owned up to it being a mistake, and said he needs to get better. THAT'S A LEADER.

This actually proves my point... What Aaron is doing is wrong, ex receiver and even Brady himself says that is not right, and not the best thing to do.

So to answer this one. Is Brady perfect no... But I am waiting to see the growth from Rodgers to realize this too. He will, it takes time. Leaders aren't born overnight.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yep they are posted right above your comment and explain each one... Please read them and get back to me.

yup did, keep interrupting factual information anyway you want to so that it in your eyes it fits your arguments. Interpret what you seem to know about AR, that nobody else either knows or sees the way you want to so that your arguments makes some sense to you. I look at the clips of Brady and see a passionate pissed off leader... you see AR roll his eyes and think he is Benedict Arnold. So I guess until you actually tell me something new and important that AR has done, that the gold standard of great leaders, Tom Brady hasn't, I'm not convinced or even slightly swayed by anything you have said.

 

[longtimefan]

Sure you can if that is acceptable at your work... Go for it. There are better ways to get what you want though. And as I said the true point of it... I can guarantee you that no one you work with as an equal will give two *****. Doesn't affect them. Different scenario completely I don't get how people can't see that.

I did the same thing with Abbrederis... Check my recent post. You will find it. Get back to me about it, and post it here if i did or did not do the same damn thing.

Funny you ignored how I refuted each one of those clips... And the one closest to Aaron is Brady yelling at himself not the receiver. But ya let forget that and think Im an Aaron hater lol

I hate it, especially when mods have to make something personal. Even if I did hate Aaron, like he stole my wife. If my points are valid. Why does it matter? It doesn't change anything?

Sorry you dont like my mod style...I dont hold back, I am honest and speak what I see..It isnt personal..big difference...I am trying to provide evidence to disprove or confirm what you are posting. Just because I dont agree with your views, and I am a mod--- doesnt mean I HAVE to be quiet..

When MY boss here has issues on what I do, he will tell me..

I didnt refute the clips for one real reason...You will find fault with it. So I wont bang my head..(actually the one of brady yelling at his coach I mentioned. I don't think a leader should do that in public, as I think other players will wonder why should I listen to coach if Brady doesnt.

But I did explain I made a mistake on the moss clip..Go look and get back to me about it..

Seriously tho...This will get no where..You maybe right, or others maybe right.

 

[longtimefan]

This one i like! This is great stuff!

When was it? More than 2 years ago would be my guess... Since I have already made this point 9 times about it only being the last couple of years. But when I bring up the link it goes to the first page of news feed so i can't see a date.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rodgers-leadership-qualities-affirmed-2q6tjn1-170281606.html

 

[Un4GivN]

Sorry you dont like my mod style...I dont hold back, I am honest and speak what I see..It isnt personal..big difference...I am trying to provide evidence to disprove or confirm what you are posting. Just because I dont agree with your views, and I am a mod--- doesnt mean I HAVE to be quiet..

When MY boss here has issues on what I do, he will tell me..

I didnt refute the clips for one real reason...You will find fault with it. So I wont bang my head..(actually the one of brady yelling at his coach I mentioned. I don't think a leader should do that in public, as I think other players will wonder why should I listen to coach if Brady doesnt.

But I did explain I made a mistake on the moss clip..Go look and get back to me about it..

Seriously tho...This will get no where..You maybe right, or others maybe right.

It's fun though, and you learn that is the point of forums... To view other peoples point of views. I have nothing against anyone I talk to on a personal level. There has been nothing said that is out of line and I bet others view this quite often for updates.... Win/Win Be pretty boring if everyone agreed all the time. Not sure I would come here.

And just to throw this out there... I can rip Brady a new one as well when comparing him to Rodgers. His arm strength is lacking in comparison. His mobility is to the point of sadness for an NFL quarterback. He makes to many throw that result in interceptions that have cost his teams games.... The list goes on. BUT this conversation isn't about any of those things and if we get into one about that you will see the same thing but in reverse to side with Rodgers.

I really do like the link you posted of Brady and Irvin though... Not because it proves my point as much as it shows there is other sides to things. There were probably Brady fans at the time that said "I don't understand why people are making a big deal of this" When in reality it is an error. It's the wrong way to get people on your side, the wrong way to lead and he knew it.

And I beg of you to look at my thread where I posted about Abbrederis, and give me your honest opinion if I was the same way about that... The only difference is. People don't remember that because it's not Rodgers... Just saying.

 

[longtimefan]

I really do like the link you posted of Brady and Irvin though... Not because it proves my point as much as it shows there is other sides to things. There were probably Brady fans at the time that said "I don't understand why people are making a big deal of this" When in reality it is an error. It's the wrong way to get people on your side, the wrong way to lead and he knew it.

And I beg of you to look at my thread where I posted about Abbrederis, and give me your honest opinion if I was the same way about that... The only difference is. People don't remember that because it's not Rodgers... Just saying.

1st, you claimed Brady doesnt do that stuff and makes him a great leader..Then Shown he has done it and it proves your point?

either I so tired and thats why it doesnt make sense, or it truly makes no sense

Your quote

These are all grown men, and yelling at them isn't going to make them run faster, or catch better. Instead of letting their mind be free and make plays they are now worried, if I don't catch this he is going to be PISSED.

Give me link to your abby stuff, Ill read later

 

[Un4GivN]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rodgers-leadership-qualities-affirmed-2q6tjn1-170281606.html

As I have said two things jump out right away.

1. These are players currently getting the ball thrown by him... As I said about Aaron's leadership. How ****** would it be if JJ says. "Yeah, the guy is a grade A jerk. Lead? HAHA that's funny. Next question" Of course he defends his quarterback. That's what he should do. Anything else would be both stupid and once again unproductive just like I have state about Rodgers comments.

2. Just because you lead doesn't make you good at it. Nor does it mean you can't do it a better way. He is the leader, there is no one else. They look to him. Does that mean he is doing it right?

 

[Dr.Jackanapes]

I can't be the only person who recalls numerous instances of Brady losing it like a ticked off parent at his receivers, linemen, etc, when things have gone wrong. Brady has repeatedly berated his teammates on national TV. That gets chalked up to great leadership. I still remember Rodgers catching a whole bunch of flack for lighting up James Jones on the field a couple of years ago. He was selfish, and showed up his teammate, according to media members. Rodgers isn't perfect, I'm sure, but this whole demeanor thing is BS. And not taking blame? Every week he says he needs to play better.