Week 2 - Monday Night - Lions @ Packers (Pre Game and Game Thread)

tynimiller

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Dillon has carried the ball nine times for a total of 37 yards while adding two receptions for 15 yards. While those are decent numbers he doesn't do anything special when given the opportunity either.

While not doing anything special, it is quite clear he continually makes 4 yards when Jones would get 1. He in no way is a home run hitter, and I'm not gonna go as far as some others about the amount of snaps he needs - but we really do need to incorporate a rushing attack more with him as it is a sledgehammer between the tackles approach that Jones just isn't as built for.

It is still early in the year, and I suspect there will come a game or two quite soon where we see Dillon utilized more.
 

Krabs

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Aaron, once again continues to focus on Davante too often. I was glad to see him use Tonyan and Cobb a liitle bit, but he rarely looked for MVS or Lizard. Aaron did admit in his press conference to missing MVS several times. I hope that improves. My studs are both the Aarons. Rodgers threw one pass for completion (can't remember the player) that I still don't know how he got it through that window. Jones was available as a safety net and it was great to see him score so many TDs.
Rodgers spread the ball around appropriately. 6 players had receptions and MVS was targeted.
Rodgers targeted Adams on nine of his 27 throws which in my opinion isn't too much considering Davante is most likely the best receiver in the league. In addition those throws resulted in eight receptions for 121 yards. Don't see any reason to complain about it.
@captainWIMM says it right here. 9 targets and 8 receptions indicates that Adams was open. He needs to get the ball for us to be successful.

I'm not sure why people are disappointed about Rodgers performance. He had at least two throws in that game that most QBs in the NFL cannot make. One to Adams for 52 yards and the other to Tonyan for the TD.
 

tynimiller

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VERY small sample size with two games and I expect of course progression here but I love the nextgen stat which attempts to capture how many yards a running back gets more than the expected amount on a play.

Aaron Jones is presently the last or worst on the list of qualifying RBs getting nearly a yard and a half less than expected per rush. This of course isn't too shocking seeing as how he is not a bruiser who pushes piles, but I was shocked he has struggled that much. Saints game of course and his abysmal performance there is main reason for this.

By week 6 I'm sure he will be somewhere back to expected range of -.5 to .25 I'd bet.

 

gopkrs

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Dillon has carried the ball nine times for a total of 37 yards while adding two receptions for 15 yards. While those are decent numbers he doesn't do anything special when given the opportunity either.

Rodgers targeted Adams on nine of his 27 throws which in my opinion isn't too much considering Davante is most likely the best receiver in the league. In addition those throws resulted in eight receptions for 121 yards. Don't see any reason to complain about it.
Seems to me that Dillon needs a bigger hole than Jones. No matter how strong he is, he is not going to run through D linemen. He may break a tackle now and then but he needs some space. And Jones will break a tackle now and then also.
 

tynimiller

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Don't see that or agree with it at all. Jones outside tackles is crazy more dangerous than Dillon - you give Dillon and Jones the same hole or lack of a hole between the tackles nine times out of ten Dillon picks up more yards - the caveat is that one time Jones does get more it could be to the house.
 

Don Barclay

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Don't see that or agree with it at all. Jones outside tackles is crazy more dangerous than Dillon - you give Dillon and Jones the same hole or lack of a hole between the tackles nine times out of ten Dillon picks up more yards - the caveat is that one time Jones does get more it could be to the house.
Unless I'm misreading PFR's advanced rushing stats, Jones was second in the NFL in 2020 in yards after contact. 2.9, just 0.1 off first place. I am excited to see what Dillon can do with more opportunities this year for sure, but I do think you're selling Jones short here.
 

tynimiller

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Unless I'm misreading PFR's advanced rushing stats, Jones was second in the NFL in 2020 in yards after contact. 2.9, just 0.1 off first place. I am excited to see what Dillon can do with more opportunities this year for sure, but I do think you're selling Jones short here.

I'm not selling anything really, Jones homerun ability will one hundred percent begin to illustrate more and more as the season progresses. They are two very different styles of RBs - Jones makes up most of his YAC and/or yards achieved vs expected yards (that next gen stat I really like, but not in this small size of a sample). I'm merely stressing that what they do and offer are vastly different - and I fully expect Jones to round up his figures I've discussed, and I think we will see more and more utilization at times of Dillon because he can do what only a handful or so guys in the league can do - move a pile after contact.
 

tynimiller

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The biggest difference between Dillon and Jones to me is Jones excels at making guys attempting to make tackles miss vastly more than Dillon. However, Dillon excels at making yards against a guy that is making the tackle vs Jones. IMO they truly are the perfect pairing together.
 
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Dillon has carried the ball nine times for a total of 37 yards while adding two receptions for 15 yards. While those are decent numbers he doesn't do anything special when given the opportunity either.
This is not a slight on Aaron Jones, he’s one of the best in the league.
Just an observation that Aaron Jones first 9 runs yielded 33 yards (3.7 per)
Should we pull him based on his first 9 attempts? Obviously that would be ludicrous.

Point being you’ve got to feed a RB more than 4.5 attempts per game. Dillon is a RB that excels as the game wears on and his college success was with a heavy workload. It takes 10 carries per game just to get primed for his style.

We spent a 2nd round selection on him and it’s time to see what we got, it wouldn’t hurt to feature him for half a game to get him going. We could either use him early to soften the Defense and then convert to Jones later each half, especially on longer drives where the opponent D is tiring.

We could also do just the opposite, wait until late 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarter and bring in the hammer, when Defenses are not fresh (assuming we’re not 3 scores behind :whistling:).

PS. I’d also like to get him involved in the screen/short passing game pulling a OL etc..). He’s thunder once he gets momentum
 
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milani

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Rodgers spread the ball around appropriately. 6 players had receptions and MVS was targeted.

@captainWIMM says it right here. 9 targets and 8 receptions indicates that Adams was open. He needs to get the ball for us to be successful.

I'm not sure why people are disappointed about Rodgers performance. He had at least two throws in that game that most QBs in the NFL cannot make. One to Adams for 52 yards and the other to Tonyan for the TD.
So how many times in two games has he targeted MVS? And how many catches so far?
 

captainWIMM

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While not doing anything special, it is quite clear he continually makes 4 yards when Jones would get 1. He in no way is a home run hitter, and I'm not gonna go as far as some others about the amount of snaps he needs - but we really do need to incorporate a rushing attack more with him as it is a sledgehammer between the tackles approach that Jones just isn't as built for.

I'm aware that Dillon offers a different style than Jones and would prefer the Packers to use him in short yardage situations more often. Other than that I prefer to having Jones on the field as long as he doesn't need a breather.

Point being you’ve got to feed a RB more than 4.5 attempts per game. Dillon is a RB that excels as the game wears on and his college success was with a heavy workload. It takes 10 carries per game just to get primed for his style.

We spent a 2nd round selection on him and it’s time to see what we got, it wouldn’t hurt to feature him for half a game to get him going. We could either use him early to soften the Defense and then convert to Jones later each half, especially on longer drives where the opponent D is tiring.

I don't think the backup running back needs to get more than five carries a game. As mentioned above it would make sense to use Dillon more often in short yardage situations and once Jones needs a breather but overall I definitely prefer having Jones on the field for the majority of snaps.

I definitely wasn't a fan of Gutekunst spending a second rounder on a backup running back last year.
 

gopkrs

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I'm not at all convinced that Dillon is better at short yardage than Jones. Just look at the production Jones has had on the goal line the past couple years. He is stronger than he looks and can make little changes with where he is going in an instant. If Dillon runs into the line and there is no room; he is not going anywhere. I like having the one two punch. Just not necessarily on goal line short yardage.
 

Krabs

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So how many times in two games has he targeted MVS? And how many catches so far?
I'm not sure I understand the relevancy of the question. MVS has been targeted and Rodgers has admitted that he missed some throws to him. The QB throws to who is open and what the play is schemed for. Adams will have more plays designed around him than MVS will.
I guess Poppa knows the stats.

I'm just saying that I don't understand the beef with Rodgers vs the Lions. He played well and much better than against the Saints. I'm much more worried about the defense.
 

Mondio

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They're both different. I think Jones is hard to tackle because he doesn't give them a good shot, it's mostly glancing, but if he's in someone's clutches or it's bottled up without a place to wiggle thru or to, he goes down.

Dillon doesn't have the wiggle, but just because you get a good hold of him, doesn't mean he's done. He's far stronger and is more likely to carry you and a friend or 2 if he has any momentum going forward by the time contact is made.

Of course there are ways to stop both of them if you play it right.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I definitely wasn't a fan of Gutekunst spending a second rounder on a backup running back last year.
Agreed. I have to wonder though if that was done in case they couldn't resign Jones. I like Dillon, but in hindsight, with other positions being a higher need, I would have preferred seeing the 2nd rounder used on one of those. It is kind of turning out like the Gary and Love picks in a sense. High draft capital used on guys that aren't starters on the depth chart. I understand the concept of drafting the best player available, but sometimes I think that can really short change positions of need from being addressed.
 

milani

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I'm not sure I understand the relevancy of the question. MVS has been targeted and Rodgers has admitted that he missed some throws to him. The QB throws to who is open and what the play is schemed for. Adams will have more plays designed around him than MVS will.

I guess Poppa knows the stats.

I'm just saying that I don't understand the beef with Rodgers vs the Lions. He played well and much better than against the Saints. I'm much more worried about the defense.
Just trying to see how often he went to MVS and evaluate the success rate no matter who gets it done. 3 of 14 is not good. So something is wrong one way or another. Could you picture Rodgers going 3 of 14 to Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Driver, or Finley? That would mean a lot of bad throws, easy drops, or poor separation.
 

captainWIMM

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I'm not at all convinced that Dillon is better at short yardage than Jones. Just look at the production Jones has had on the goal line the past couple years. He is stronger than he looks and can make little changes with where he is going in an instant. If Dillon runs into the line and there is no room; he is not going anywhere. I like having the one two punch. Just not necessarily on goal line short yardage.

Jones is an slightly above average short yardage rusher (63.5% first downs on attempts with three or less yards to go) compared to the league average (61.8%).

Dillon (87.5%) is way better in that regard, although I have to admit it's a small sample size (eight attempts).

It is kind of turning out like the Gary and Love picks in a sense. High draft capital used on guys that aren't starters on the depth chart.

The Love pick is even worse as both Gary and Dillon at least receive meaningful snaps as backups.

Just trying to see how often he went to MVS and evaluate the success rate no matter who gets it done. 3 of 14 is not good. So something is wrong one way or another. Could you picture Rodgers going 3 of 14 to Nelson, Jennings, Jones, Driver, or Finley? That would mean a lot of bad throws, easy drops, or poor separation.

You need to realize that MVS currently is the receiver in the NFL with the highest average depth of target when taking a look at those numbers. In addition he has some issues separating compared to last season.

Of course the Packers want his catch percentage to improve but it won't be anywhere close to other receivers being targeted closer to the LOS.
 

gopkrs

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Jones is an slightly above average short yardage rusher (63.5% first downs on attempts with three or less yards to go) compared to the league average (61.8%).

Dillon (87.5%) is way better in that regard, although I have to admit it's a small sample size (eight attempts).
very small sample. And I was talking TDs and you are talking 1st downs.
 
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