The Point of the Draft Picks

[CanadaCheese]

Put the crack pipe down.

I hope the Packers are paying you well. I'd hate to see someone working so hard for nothing.

Dante’s working at Wendy’s ....we confirmed that about an hour ago

 

[Dantés]

Put the crack pipe down.

I hope the Packers are paying you well. I'd hate to see someone working so hard for no pay.

Great point! I see what you mean now.

 

[RRyder]

Oh I understand it dipstick and it involves a specific set of skills across the board that GB doesn’t have
To suggest it’s successful across the league is laughable since the successful franchises are high flying athletic groups with dynamic QB’s and super active defenses that can create havoc. You are obviously a big fan of MLF and if so they should go all in with it ASAP and quickly purge the old guard. Paying a generational passing QB with a huge ego is just stupid
BTW...I probably know more about this than you’d ever hope to..

There's plenty of things that get tossed around on message boards but there's one immutable truth...... When someone says this its time to disregard everything they say

 

[lambeaulambo]

If anyone is wondering what type of offense MLF is trying to set up watch the Tennessee Titans offense, it is similar.

 

[tynimiller]

They must feel Sternberger is their pass catching TE and want a better blocking TE in Deguara. Now we can run 2 TE sets with younger guys than Lewis.

Everyone is sleeping on the receiving hands Josiah comes with. Yes he is a tenacious blocker and loves the whistle blowing late for another hit, but the dude can catch and delivers.

 

[CanadaCheese]

If anyone is wondering what type of offense MLF is trying to set up watch the Tennessee Titans offense, it is similar.

If true a few questions should be posed:
Why do this with a 37 YO HOF slinger making $35m/ year?
Why draft a suspect throwing QB when said above is locked in for 3+ years?
Why embark on this concept when virtually the entire league is moving as quick as possible to athletic passing attacks?
Reasonable?

 

[Scotland Yard]

Even if any of that is true Gutekunst committed a cardinal sin for a general manager no matter what.

Either it was a colossal mistake to extend Rodgers (what's the point if there's no desire to tailor the offense to his strengths) or it was a terrible decision to hire MLF as head coach.

In addition it seems like he forgot that the Packers were within one game of making it to the Super Bowl by not selecting any prospect to improve their chances for next year.

On top of that, both Dillon and Deguara most likely would have been available today.

I agree with you about the obvious contradiction you point out which I bolded above.

My theory on this whole mess is:

1 - Mark Murphy did the Rodgers extension. He suffered through the disastrous Favre divorce. Murphy had no stomach to go through that again with Rodgers. So, he's hoping Rodgers retires a Packer in 2-3 years.

2 - Meanwhile, Murphy has decided to let his new GM manage and let his new coach run it how he sees fit. So, Gute & LaFleur are doing what they want, Murphy is keeping hands off.

3 - Because of the Rodgers extension, Gute & Lafleur are not under the usual win now at all costs or get fired in two years. They will win enough games to feel secure (especially after 2019's 14-4 season). So, they are rebuilding the team into what LaFleur wants. As such, the Packers are not catering to Rodgers' last couple of seasons in a win at all costs mode like most of us expected.

My opinion is this: They should NOT have resigned Rodgers if my speculations above are correct. It seems foolish to resign Rodgers to that blockbuster deal and then allow a new GM & HC to build a running team.

Murphy allowed Thompson to keep his job way past the expiration date. Now this. Murphy is a putz.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Here is Green Bay’s draft analysis
Green Bay Packers
The Packers had a strange draft. As Aaron Rodgers enters his 16th season, it was clear the Packers needed to get him weapons in the passing offense. That didn’t happen. Not only did the Packers draft Rodgers’ replacement in Jordan Love of Utah State, but they traded up to get him. Rodgers has four years left on his contract. What if Love doesn’t play before then? But maybe Love sees the field early, like Patrick Mahomes did in Kansas City, and I look like a fool.

Late in the second round, the Packers took running back AJ Dillon. Aaron Jones is going into a contract year, so taking a running back makes sense in that regard. Dillon doesn’t have a lot of wiggle, but he was productive in college. Tight end Josiah Deguara, selected in the third round, is a decent pass catcher.

The Packers continued to ignore the passing offense on Saturday of the draft by taking three players on defense and three offensive linemen. My favorite Day 3 choice for the Packers was offensive lineman Jon Runyan.

Grade: D

Here is another and another D

Green Bay Packers: D

One day after trading up four spots to pick Jordan Love, Green Bay made a puzzling second-round decision.

The Packers selected Boston College running back AJ Dillon, who will sit behind Aaron Jones on the depth chart.

Cincinnati tight end Josiah Deguara does not fill an offensive void either with Marcedes Lewis, Jace Sternberger and Robert Tonyan on the roster.

Green Bay missed out on the strong crop of wide receivers on three occasions and likely annoyed Aaron Rodgers in the process

3 for 3
D
Green Bay Packers: Given the unprecedented stability they've enjoyed for nearly 30 years at quarterback, maybe we shouldn't argue with their methodology – which included a Round 1 trade for Love, Aaron Rodgers' potential heir apparent. But to take Love and then come back with one-dimensional RB A.J. Dillon at the end of Round 2, it just doesn't seem enough was done to help Rodgers – he surely would've liked just one of this year's bountiful crop of receivers – win now

4 for 4 except this one is a D+

Notice a pattern

complete disaster

Green Bay Packers: D+

Breakdown: It’s hard to understand the thought process of this draft. The Packers were one win from the Super Bowl, yet traded up to get the potential heir at quarterback to Aaron Rodgers instead of getting him offensive help. Deguara is the closest thing they got to immediate help as a pass catcher for Rodgers, and Dillon seems like an odd pick although I like his talent. Loading up on offensive line is never a bad thing, but they had a rough weekend, especially because they passed entirely on a historic class at wide receiver.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Horrible draft by a horrible organization. I hope Rodgers holds out after this clown show

 

[Mondio]

Yeah, we should set our offense so Rodgers throws 45 times a game. That's the path to success with a QB that's going to be 37 during the season. And some mounting injuries There’s plenty of good reasons to make this offense with this QB a legitimate play action team. Besides trying to push Rodgers out. They might even be doing it to help him as he hits the latter part of his career?

 

[CanadaCheese]

Yeah, we should set our offense so Rodgers throws 45 times a game. That's the path to success with a QB that's going to be 37 during the season. And some mounting injuries There’s plenty of good reasons to make this offense with this QB a legitimate play action team. Besides trying to push Rodgers out. They might even be doing it to help him as he hits the latter part of his career?

Could be.... you never know

 

[Dantés]

Everyone is sleeping on the receiving hands Josiah comes with. Yes he is a tenacious blocker and loves the whistle blowing late for another hit, but the dude can catch and delivers.

LaFleur's offense is predicated on using personnel that forces defenses to pick a poison.

It's run most effectively in San Francisco by Kyle Shanahan, who I think is the best offensive mind in the league currently using this style.

If you look at the offensive personnel in SF, there aren't many superstars. Before today, their WR2 was Kendrick Bourne. They have a number of running backs who can be effective within the offense, but no one that would be considered a top 10 (or even 15? 20?) NFL back. Even their QB is hardly going to be featured on anyone's top 10 list. Yet last year they were 7th in offensive DVOA, 4th in total yardage, and 2nd in scoring offense.

The keys to their offense are George Kittle and, to a lesser extent, Kyle Juszczyk. Kittle can line up in line and Juszczyk in the backfield and they can be in 21 or 22 personnel and force defenses into a base look. But they can audible and put Kittle in the slot or have Juszczk run a route and shred that base look with a passing attack. But if the defense goes light to match up with the passing threat, say nickel or dime, those same players can bury people as run blockers. So the defense has to pick their poison, and the offensive personnel can make them wrong either way.

I believe that's what LaFleur wants to build in Green Bay. He wants personnel that can alternate between 11, 12, and 21 personnel formations without subbing (and thus without giving the defense a chance to sub). Deguara is a part of that, fitting in the Juszcyk mold. Sternberger could be a part of that as he comes along.

And then of course for it all to work, the running game needs to be effective. Last year, the 49ers were 2nd in rushing attempts, 2nd in yards/game and 8th in yds/attempt. The Packers were 13th, 15th, and 14th, respectively. Adding Dillon to the backfield should help address that, as Aaron Jones isn't a 25 carry back, and Jamaal Williams just isn't very effective.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Yeah, we should set our offense so Rodgers throws 45 times a game. That's the path to success with a QB that's going to be 37 during the season. And some mounting injuries There’s plenty of good reasons to make this offense with this QB a legitimate play action team. Besides trying to push Rodgers out. They might even be doing it to help him as he hits the latter part of his career?

Surrounding our HOF QB with talent is total blasphemy. Nice take, smart guy

 

[CanadaCheese]

LaFleur's offense is predicated on using personnel that forces defenses to pick a poison.

It's run most effectively in San Francisco by Kyle Shanahan, who I think is the best offensive mind in the league currently using this style.

If you look at the offensive personnel in SF, there aren't many superstars. Before today, their WR2 was Kendrick Bourne. They have a number of running backs who can be effective within the offense, but no one that would be considered a top 10 (or even 15? 20?) NFL back. Even their QB is hardly going to be featured on anyone's top 10 list. Yet last year they were 7th in offensive DVOA, 4th in total yardage, and 2nd in scoring offense.

The keys to their offense are George Kittle and, to a lesser extent, Kyle Juszczyk. Kittle can line up in line and Juszczyk in the backfield and they can be in 21 or 22 personnel and force defenses into a base look. But they can audible and put Kittle in the slot or have Juszczk run a route and shred that base look with a passing attack. But if the defense goes light to match up with the passing threat, say nickel or dime, those same players can bury people as run blockers. So the defense has to pick their poison, and the offensive personnel can make them wrong either way.

I believe that's what LaFleur wants to build in Green Bay. He wants personnel that can alternate between 11, 12, and 21 personnel formations without subbing (and thus without giving the defense a chance to sub). Deguara is a part of that, fitting in the Juszcyk mold. Sternberger could be a part of that as he comes along.

And then of course for it all to work, the running game needs to be effective. Last year, the 49ers were 2nd in rushing attempts, 2nd in yards/game and 8th in yds/attempt. The Packers were 13th, 15th, and 14th, respectively. Adding Dillon to the backfield should help address that, as Aaron Jones isn't a 25 carry back, and Jamaal Williams just isn't very effective.

Allot of ifs
And also a defense that is crazy aggressive and forces a ton of pressure on the opposing teams (which we really can’t consistently) Schemes need personal and GB doesn’t remotely match scheme outlines henceforth rebuild / teardown

 

[Dantés]

Allot of ifs
And also a defense that is crazy aggressive and forces a ton of pressure on the opposing teams (which we really can’t consistently) Schemes need personal and GB doesn’t remotely match scheme outlines henceforth rebuild / teardown

Nice word vomit. I would sift through whatever this is and try to figure out what you're trying to say, but I'm afraid that getting to your actual point would just make me dumber for all the effort.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Nice word vomit. I would sift through whatever this is and try to figure out what you're trying to say, but I'm afraid that getting to your actual point would just make me dumber for all the effort.

Here I’ll speak slowly so you can keep up....
current offense (mm version) is designed to be pass first supported by run pandering to 25 years of incredible QB talent
New scheme changes both personal and philosophy which doesn’t maximize the talent of the other set up...ie: our players don’t support the MLF scheme..got it
Additionally the SF defense is staffed and designed to be aggressive and forcers of turnover a tempo... they have the best front seven in football and dictate play ps e which allows a running ball control offense to be effective
GB defense (LB in particular) will not be able to dictate tempo.... will be susceptible to getting behind and handicap a ball control offense since they’ll be playing behind early and often
SF built a team over many years with high draft picks snd schrewd free agents to fit scheme and philosophy
If that’s the direction.... go for it but it will be long and painful

 

[Mondio]

Surrounding our HOF QB with talent is total blasphemy. Nice take, smart guy

You realize a football team is more than WRs?

because less face it, this is what has people like you in such a tizzy, you didn’t get your WR?

I have a feeling Gute still isn’t done. But whatever. Feel free to keep acting like a school girl who’s boy band poster was stolen from her locker.

 

[McKnowledge]

Even if any of that is true Gutekunst committed a cardinal sin for a general manager no matter what.

Either it was a colossal mistake to extend Rodgers (what's the point if there's no desire to tailor the offense to his strengths) or it was a terrible decision to hire MLF as head coach.


On top of that, both Dillon and Deguara most likely would have been available today.

Clearly, the decision to extend Rodgers was not a mistake, he is still a top 5 QB. He earned and deserved the contract. I think MLF is exerting his control over the team, and is clearly enabled by Gute and the rest of Green Bay's front office.

This is a special circumstance of a franchise QB having very little power or even influence within the organization. There is no owner i.e. Jerry Jones that would override the decisions of Gute/MLF.

I actually championed for the MLF hire, but I didn't realize the magnitude over the organization's backing of him.

The team is clearly taken shape in the image of MLF's vision and hopefully this isn't a phasing out of AR-12.

The draft picks are what they are.

Hopefully, the FA's and draft picks along with progression from players remaining from last year's team will keep the team in the hunt.

In addition it seems like he forgot that the Packers were within one game of making it to the Super Bowl by not selecting any prospect to improve their chances for next year.

I think GB was lucky to get into the NFCCG. Clearly they weren't ready for SF...a second time around. Maybe more of a ground game, screen passes, and AR12 working the play action may take less pressure off the O-Line and create more separation for the WRs and TEs.

 

[CanadaCheese]

You realize a football team is more than WRs?

because less face it, this is what has people like you in such a tizzy, you didn’t get your WR?

I have a feeling Gute still isn’t done. But whatever. Feel free to keep acting like a school girl who’s boy band poster was stolen from her locker.

It’s not about just a WR
They needed to stay in the game:
A #2 WR
A solid athletic go chase em linebacker
A solid thumper linebacker
A solid dependable Right Tackle
A run stuffing NT
A dependable TE who can block and catch

We chose one that kinda fits the need if you use your imagination

Hence almost unanimous grades of D from football people across the league

 

[Pugger]

Here is Green Bay’s draft analysis
Green Bay Packers
The Packers had a strange draft. As Aaron Rodgers enters his 16th season, it was clear the Packers needed to get him weapons in the passing offense. That didn’t happen. Not only did the Packers draft Rodgers’ replacement in Jordan Love of Utah State, but they traded up to get him. Rodgers has four years left on his contract. What if Love doesn’t play before then? But maybe Love sees the field early, like Patrick Mahomes did in Kansas City, and I look like a fool.

Late in the second round, the Packers took running back AJ Dillon. Aaron Jones is going into a contract year, so taking a running back makes sense in that regard. Dillon doesn’t have a lot of wiggle, but he was productive in college. Tight end Josiah Deguara, selected in the third round, is a decent pass catcher.

The Packers continued to ignore the passing offense on Saturday of the draft by taking three players on defense and three offensive linemen. My favorite Day 3 choice for the Packers was offensive lineman Jon Runyan.

Grade: D

Here is another and another D

Green Bay Packers: D

One day after trading up four spots to pick Jordan Love, Green Bay made a puzzling second-round decision.

The Packers selected Boston College running back AJ Dillon, who will sit behind Aaron Jones on the depth chart.

Cincinnati tight end Josiah Deguara does not fill an offensive void either with Marcedes Lewis, Jace Sternberger and Robert Tonyan on the roster.

Green Bay missed out on the strong crop of wide receivers on three occasions and likely annoyed Aaron Rodgers in the process

3 for 3
D
Green Bay Packers: Given the unprecedented stability they've enjoyed for nearly 30 years at quarterback, maybe we shouldn't argue with their methodology – which included a Round 1 trade for Love, Aaron Rodgers' potential heir apparent. But to take Love and then come back with one-dimensional RB A.J. Dillon at the end of Round 2, it just doesn't seem enough was done to help Rodgers – he surely would've liked just one of this year's bountiful crop of receivers – win now

4 for 4 except this one is a D+

Notice a pattern

complete disaster

Green Bay Packers: D+

Breakdown: It’s hard to understand the thought process of this draft. The Packers were one win from the Super Bowl, yet traded up to get the potential heir at quarterback to Aaron Rodgers instead of getting him offensive help. Deguara is the closest thing they got to immediate help as a pass catcher for Rodgers, and Dillon seems like an odd pick although I like his talent. Loading up on offensive line is never a bad thing, but they had a rough weekend, especially because they passed entirely on a historic class at wide receiver.

This draft gets a D grade if all that was important was providing Rodgers with weapons.

 

[CanadaCheese]

This draft gets a D grade if all that was important was providing Rodgers with weapons.

Yup
I saw seven “grade boards” last night:
1 - B-
1 - D+
4 - D
1 - F

 

[CanadaCheese]

Yup
I saw seven “grade boards” last night:
1 - B-
1 - D+
4 - D
1 - F

And it’s not just about the weapons issue
Equally and possibly more important was the issues at LB and RT

 

[Pugger]

It’s not about just a WR
They needed to stay in the game:
A #2 WR Devin Funchess?
A solid athletic go chase em linebacker Christian Kirksey?
A solid thumper linebacker
A solid dependable Right Tackle Rick Wagner?
A run stuffing NT
A dependable TE who can block and catch Jace Sternberger and Josiah Deguara?

We chose one that kinda fits the need if you use your imagination

Hence almost unanimous grades of D from football people across the league

This wasn't a great DL draft class. Can Kirksey be that guy in the middle to compliment the Smiths? We don't know about Burks. Wagner isn't Bulaga but he isn't terrible. Can Funchess stay healthy? Is Gute done looking for WRs?

 

[Heyjoe4]

90% of pundits and fans prove themselves to be idiots every year, year after year LOL. But they never have to live with their silly prognostications and probably have made a million and a half ofther silly decisions that actually have affected their lives by the time the next draft rolls around they have forgotten how wrong they were the year before.

Mock after Mock completely blown up and wrong every single year. According to fans, Rodgers was a bad pick, Nick Collins? man was Ted crucified for that one. Not picking Shazor as safety from MI one year? man people were pissed when he was still istting there in the 3rd and they just knew he was a 1st round talent. I think he went undrafted actually and never did anything in the NFL. People didn't like Kenny Clark actually, that wasn't that long ago, I remember it. People were pissed Gute traded back and then he traded back up for Jaire. Most fans had no clue. But they remember they wanted Watt and not King so they think they're genius.

I think it should be obvious they thought our offense was lacking certain players to really make it work. It wasn't the players YOU( general you) thought so we all think it was stupid.

I happen to think that RB can make an offense go and use Jones to his strengths as a big play home run hitter. But i'm sorry, nobody still lines up to stop him. We start pounding a rock for 4-5 yards a pop even when they line up to stop it, play action and everything else is going to be opened up tremendously.

We all wanted a WR, well a consistent bruising RB can shade safeties, make DB's move. Get linebackers moving a certain way hard, just by the action int eh backfield and we have the QB that see's all of that. This RB can influence this offense a lot more than people are giving him credit for.

Oh, and one more add on, I don't think it's a secret what Gute is trying to do. it doesn't line up with what people wanted him to do, but It's obvious they're going to try and create an identity on offense, that's different from what we were expecting.

I think this is the best explanation I’ve heard of the draft, so thanks Mondio.

Some are saying the draft didn’t address immediate needs. But I can see a world where the 2nd round pick (RB) and 3rd round pick (TE/HB) CAN make an immediate impact.

Like it or not, this is MLF’s team and a GM’s job is to get his head coach players to execute the plan. GB now has three very high-quality RBs, and I expect in year two we’re finally going to see something MM wouldn’t do - use the running game to set up the passing game. This may not result in many highlight reel throws way downfield - but guess what - those plays rarely are difference makers in a game.

Now, Rodgers may not like a role where he’s managing a game of run first to set up RPO/jet sweep. Those schemes rarely result in highlight reel stuff. But what this does allow is for the O to stay on the field longer, creating sustained and productive drives.

Maybe I’m looking at this through rose-colored glasses. I’m still willing to give Gluten and MLF the benefit of the doubt (this is only year 2 of the MLF era).

A lot of people have lauded the Cowboys draft, especially CeeDee Lamb at #17. And they have Zeke. But knowing MM, the Cowboys will be a pass-heavy team, and really, I like the Gluten/MLF approach better.

I may be putting lipstick on a pig here, and I’m only focusing on rounds 2 and 3. As for taking Love after trading up, I don’t know why that couldn’t have waited another year. But it’s probably safe to say that none of us have looked at as much film of Love as Gluten and the rest of the scouts/coaches. It’s a calculated risk. I don’t get it, but I don’t have to.

Very few would question we’re in “win now” mode while we have #12. On the surface, the draft doesn’t support that. But we may be looking at it from the wrong angle.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Clearly, the decision to extend Rodgers was not a mistake, he is still a top 5 QB. He earned and deserved the contract. I think MLF is exerting his control over the team, and is clearly enabled by Gute and the rest of Green Bay's front office.

This is a special circumstance of a franchise QB having very little power or even influence within the organization. There is no owner i.e. Jerry Jones that would override the decisions of Gute/MLF.

I actually championed for the MLF hire, but I didn't realize the magnitude over the organization's backing of him.

The team is clearly taken shape in the image of MLF's vision and hopefully this isn't a phasing out of AR-12.

The draft picks are what they are.

Hopefully, the FA's and draft picks along with progression from players remaining from last year's team will keep the team in the hunt.



I think GB was lucky to get into the NFCCG. Clearly they weren't ready for SF...a second time around. Maybe more of a ground game, screen passes, and AR12 working the play action may take less pressure off the O-Line and create more separation for the WRs and TEs.

Your last point is well made. GB overachieved last year, and that’s ok. As Rodgers’ athletic ability starts to fade, a run-heavy offense utilizing RPO and jet sweeps allows for long, sustained drives. I expect this will increase #12’s completion percentage, increase TDs, and continue to minimize INTs.

So if anything, Gluten was accommodating the reality facing his star QB. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

MM will run a pass-heavy offense next year with only one, albeit great, RB. If I had to bet today, I’d opt for the direction Gluten and MLF are taking.