The Point of the Draft Picks

[Deleted member 6794]

I get that a lot of us get upset because we feel a draft pick is a bad value if he is taken too early but after the draft is over and the games begin does it really matter where a guy is taken as long as we find the player and he produces?

True, but I highly doubt Love, Dillon and Deguara will be productive for the Packers this season.

 

[OldSchool101]

The point of these draft picks is to plan for a future that we shouldn't be planning for (yet).

And honestly, I have been an advocate of drafting a complimentary 'bruizing' piece to Jones for ages. The Falcons and Saints have been recent evidence that having a strong one two punch can do miracles for your QB and overall offense. But drafting one in the second is a luxury we can't afford, especially after we used our first and fourth rounder to draft a backup QB.

Then you of anyone should be excited for a late round 2 selection. Big difference between #35 and #62 IMO. #62 is teetering on round 3.

You say backup QB and rightfully so. That’s only for the short term, I hope. I think they see him as a starter in 2 years.

 

[Fat Dogs]

I'm going to suggest a thought at to what Gutekunst is doing in this draft, and people can decide for themselves if they think I'm right. But right up front, this isn't a defense, it's a stab at an explanation. You could agree with what I think here and still think that this was a bad approach.

Gute is collecting the pieces that LaFleur wants/needs to run his offense

Greg Cosell was on with Ross Tucker today talking about the first round. He said that he believes Jordan Love to be an ideal fit (stylistically-- obviously we don't know yet if he will be good) for LaFleur's offense. He suggested that perhaps LaFleur was asking for an heir apparent who would do a more faithful job to run the offense as it was called, rather than ad lib or go off-script. I think that's a good guess at the motivation, as well as just the realities that Rodgers turns 37 this year and they must really like Love.

Before coming to Green Bay, LaFleur's offense really started to click in Tennessee when they got Derrick Henry rolling in the running game. The presence of a hulking, one cut runner with breakaway speed provided the foundation for the heavy play action offense that he wants to run. In terms of style, size, and athleticism, A.J. Dillon is as close to Henry as you will find anywhere. I am not saying he's as good-- I don't know that. But he is a shockingly close facsimile, who we can guess he wants to use in the same way.

One of LaFleur's "cousins" in his coaching family tree is Kyle Shanahan. Shanahan uses a fullback far more than normal in today's NFL. One of the ways he's so effective with it is by employing a guy, Kyle Juszczyk, who is a legitimate threat as a receiver, but who can also block the run. This allows him to run or pass effectively out of the same personnel, without subbing out and telegraphing run/pass to the defense. LaFleur tried to turn Vitale into that guy last year and it didn't work. He wasn't that good of a blocker and he didn't excel in his opportunities to win in the passing game. Josiah Deguara profiles to that role.

So again, I'm not telling anyone this is a great draft, a terrible draft, one they should be excited for, or one they should quit the Packers over. But it went off script early and has stayed that way and I think I know why they've made the decisions that they've made.

I said this when he was hired. Said his offense was about to transition into a run heavy one to set up play action. My responses were “not with a QB like A-Rod.” I also have been saying that we were to soft. 49ers made us look like a HS team. We need to get big on both sides of the ball and impose our will. I don’t agree with this draft. In fact, I hate the Love pick but I was all for drafting a RB early to have that one/two punch. This is the start to that transition. I really wish we would have drafted a nasty OT in the first but I’m more than ok with investing in the run game. Now invest in stopping the run the rest of the draft please!!

 

[Spanky]

I'm going to suggest a thought at to what Gutekunst is doing in this draft, and people can decide for themselves if they think I'm right. But right up front, this isn't a defense, it's a stab at an explanation. You could agree with what I think here and still think that this was a bad approach.

Gute is collecting the pieces that LaFleur wants/needs to run his offense

Greg Cosell was on with Ross Tucker today talking about the first round. He said that he believes Jordan Love to be an ideal fit (stylistically-- obviously we don't know yet if he will be good) for LaFleur's offense. He suggested that perhaps LaFleur was asking for an heir apparent who would do a more faithful job to run the offense as it was called, rather than ad lib or go off-script. I think that's a good guess at the motivation, as well as just the realities that Rodgers turns 37 this year and they must really like Love.

Before coming to Green Bay, LaFleur's offense really started to click in Tennessee when they got Derrick Henry rolling in the running game. The presence of a hulking, one cut runner with breakaway speed provided the foundation for the heavy play action offense that he wants to run. In terms of style, size, and athleticism, A.J. Dillon is as close to Henry as you will find anywhere. I am not saying he's as good-- I don't know that. But he is a shockingly close facsimile, who we can guess he wants to use in the same way.

One of LaFleur's "cousins" in his coaching family tree is Kyle Shanahan. Shanahan uses a fullback far more than normal in today's NFL. One of the ways he's so effective with it is by employing a guy, Kyle Juszczyk, who is a legitimate threat as a receiver, but who can also block the run. This allows him to run or pass effectively out of the same personnel, without subbing out and telegraphing run/pass to the defense. LaFleur tried to turn Vitale into that guy last year and it didn't work. He wasn't that good of a blocker and he didn't excel in his opportunities to win in the passing game. Josiah Deguara profiles to that role.

So again, I'm not telling anyone this is a great draft, a terrible draft, one they should be excited for, or one they should quit the Packers over. But it went off script early and has stayed that way and I think I know why they've made the decisions that they've made.

Can someone explain to me why MLF was hired in the first place? If he needs Jordan Love to run his offense why was he hired one season after the Packers gave AR a massive contract which tied them to AR for years?

This is professional negligence at its highest level. Mark Murphy and Gutekunst should be fired. And they can take MLF with them for a clean sweep.

 

[elcid]

Then you of anyone should be excited for a late round 2 selection. Big difference between #35 and #62 IMO. #62 is teetering on round 3.

You say backup QB and rightfully so. That’s only for the short term, I hope. I think they see him as a starter in 2 years.

I'll give you that it our 2nd rounder is practically a 3rd rounder. And if we wouldn't have drafted Love I would probably like the pick. But again, it's a luxury we can't afford given that we still do not have a complimentary piece to Adams, are very weak at RT, and we have a soft run D.

If it is true that the FO sees Love as a starter in 2 year (which I doubt), Aaron's contract is gonna be a huge burden, and a contract that never should have agreed upon in the first place.

 

[speakhands]

Seriously? None of these guys are remotely “unathletic”. Josiah himself was .06 sec off the 2nd fastest time by a TE at this combine. He also put up 25 reps which was #1 and scored was ranked between #1 to #6 or better on 5/6 events he tested in

As far as QBs. Love was absolutely NOT a consensus 3rd round grade. Several sports analysts had him going to GB at #30 overall. Several more thought he might go second half of the 1st day and another even had him as high as #6 overall (which was a reach). Without getting into Anomalies he would be gone inside the top #50 on many boards. In the QB class of possible pre-day 3 choices.. he’s the 2nd most athletic, behind only Herbert.

AJ Dillon ran a fast 4.53-40 yard at the combine and incredible 41” vertical. Dillon is 247 pounds and jumped within 1” of Henry Ruggs III! He rushed for 3 consecutive 1000+ seasons against stacked boxes. When they knew he was running the opposition still couldn’t stop him. He was 1” shy of Isaiah Simmons 11 foot in the long jump!!! He wouldn't be a backup if we didn’t have a RB who scored 19TDs last season. GB now has one of the best 1-2 punches in the league at RB. I can’t wait to see the first 200 pound CB or 235lb LB get absolutely steamrolled in short yardage and knowing he’s coming but not realizing AJ makes Eddie Lacey look slow and light. He’s a punisher and
finisher.

You can argue all you want they weren’t sure needs as position picks, but trying to make them seem lesser athletes?. The combine doesn’t grade you on “small school status”, it’s a measurement against your peers from each conference and you could say in favor of the best programs.

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I only said Josiah was "relatively unathletic," which he is. I'm not sure why you felt the need to examine the athleticism of the other two, since it wasn't questioned.

Deguara had an above average 4.72 40 yard dash. He's also two inches shorter and 10 pounds lighter than the average tight end, making him a positional tweener. If you watch him play, it's pretty obvious that he's a pedestrian athlete, a far cry from someone like Aaron Hernandez who had similar size but outstanding explosiveness.

 

[Dantés]

Can someone explain to me why MLF was hired in the first place? If he needs Jordan Love to run his offense why was he hired one season after the Packers gave AR a massive contract which tied them to AR for years?

This is professional negligence at its highest level. Mark Murphy and Gutekunst should be fired. And they can take MLF with them for a clean sweep.

Why can't he have been hired to run his offense with Rodgers, while the FO also looks to the future because a guy they really love fell down the board to them?

 

[Pugger]

True, but I highly doubt Love, Dillon and Deguara will be productive for the Packers this season.

Love will not - unless Rodgers gets hurt - but I think Dillon and Deguara will play. RBs in particular are productive as rookies.

 

[Spanky]

Why can't he have been hired to run his offense with Rodgers, while the FO also looks to the future because a guy they really love fell down the board to them?

Because that's a massive waste of your team's resources. AR is the most expensive person on the team and the most important. Find a coach who can maximize his strengths rather than getting by with them.

This is a s*** draft and MLF was a s*** hire.

 

[Dantés]

Because that's a massive waste of your team's resources. AR is the most expensive person on the team and the most important. Find a coach who can maximize his strengths rather than getting by with them.

This doesn't make any sense to me.

LaFleur's offense is a great system that's proving very effective all over the league. There's no reason Rodgers can't run it. There's literally nothing about it that doesn't suit his skill set.

 

[CanadaCheese]

This doesn't make any sense to me.

LaFleur's offense is a great system that's proving very effective all over the league. There's no reason Rodgers can't run it. There's literally nothing about it that doesn't suit his skill set.

What system is that?

 

[Dantés]

What system is that?

I'm not sure you'd understand if I explained it to you.

Why don't you go find a nice quiet corner of the forum and have a good pout?

 

[CanadaCheese]

I'm not sure you'd understand if I explained it to you.

Why don't you go find a nice quiet corner of the forum and have a good pout?

Oh I understand it dipstick and it involves a specific set of skills across the board that GB doesn’t have
To suggest it’s successful across the league is laughable since the successful franchises are high flying athletic groups with dynamic QB’s and super active defenses that can create havoc. You are obviously a big fan of MLF and if so they should go all in with it ASAP and quickly purge the old guard. Paying a generational passing QB with a huge ego is just stupid
BTW...I probably know more about this than you’d ever hope to..

 

[Dantés]

Oh I understand it dipstick and it involves a specific set of skills across the board that GB doesn’t have
To suggest it’s successful across the league is laughable since the successful franchises are high flying athletic groups with dynamic QB’s and super active defenses that can create havoc. You are obviously a big fan of MLF and if so they should go all in with it ASAP and quickly purge the old guard. Paying a generational passing QB with a huge ego is just stupid
BTW...I probably know more about this than you’d ever hope to..

Sir, this is a Wendy's drive through.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Sir, this is a Wendy's drive through.

I knew you had a job!!

 

[tynimiller]

It's gotten to the point that, unless you delude yourself into believing that Gutekunst is a secret genius who not only bucks conventional football wisdom but knows more than basically everyone in evaluating prospect talent, this is a monumentally bad first three picks.

We have:

Round 1: A project quarterback who went to a small school and, despite running plays with single reads most of the time, still telegraphed his throws, was late on deliveries, and was constantly intercepted. Okay, fine. Maybe he can be groomed into a GOAT. I've personally never seen that sort of turnaround for a QB prospect with flaws that are that glaring, but...oh, well. He was projected as an upside third rounder generally. Available at this pick were the likes Patrick Queen, Tee Higgins, and Denzel Mims.

Round 2: A backup running back with great size/speed but very little in the way of vision, elusiveness, or pass catching ability. He was projected as a Day 3 pick. Available at this point was Josh Jones, Logan Wilson, and Zack Baum.

Round 3: A relatively unathletic and undersized TE/H-back hybrid. This one is the straw that breaks the camel's back. Not only was he a consensus Day 3 (AT BEST) prospect: he has very little upside. He's not big, he's not fast, and he hasn't shown the ability to catch in traffic. He's, at best, a rich man's Danny Vitale. This pick reminds me of Richard Rodgers, but at least two areas of need had been addressed when we took Richard Rodgers. Available here was Malik Harrison and Matt Peart.



Ultimately, I think having yet another shockingly stupid draft should put to rest the absurd deference to GM's by virtue of them being GM's. The best all-around draft class of my lifetime was the 2000 class (Franks, Clifton, Tauscher, KGB, Diggs) by the much-maligned Mike Sherman. He wasn't above criticism despite that class (and getting Javon Walker, Najeh Davenport, and Aaron Kampmann two years later), but he frankly didn't get much because he didn't make cutesy dumb picks.

Your description of Josiah literally is opposite of what he is. I would have gotten the player you described wrong if given that post and 5 guesses.

 

[Dantés]

I knew you had a job!!

Good! You're getting better at this. Now please get so incensed about the next picks that you opt to become a Vikings fan. You already act like one.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Good! You're getting better at this. Now please get so incensed about the next picks that you opt to become a Vikings fan. You already act like one.

No .....always been a Packers supporter
I don’t agree with this “vision” since running the ball first is boring and not likely to be successful in today’s NFL. I think this front office has done a terrible job in this draft as it is disjointed and uncoordinated whatever theme you might pick
The Vikings based on their selections and the fact Rodgers is done (even if he comes back) are much better to win the division than we are. We could have made three selections that served needs and stayed in the hunt but we didn’t.
That’s all....whatever we did we still lost ground to no less that 5 teams since last years SB
7-9 next year
Now you need to get back to the drive-in window and make sure that burger order gets filled...

 

[Dantés]

No .....always been a Packers supporter
I don’t agree with this “vision” since running the ball first is boring and not likely to be successful in today’s NFL. I think this front office has done a terrible job in this draft as it is disjointed and uncoordinated whatever theme you might pick
The Vikings based on their selections and the fact Rodgers is done (even if he comes back) are much better to win the division than we are. We could have made three selections that served needs and stayed in the hunt but we didn’t.
That’s all....whatever we did we still lost ground to no less that 5 teams since last years SB

Wait a minute. Can we back up. You don't like the draft class? You need to make your feelings a little clearer then, because it's been hard to get a good read.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Wait a minute. Can we back up. You don't like the draft class? You need to make your feelings a little clearer then, because it's been hard to get a good read.

Now you’re catching on!!!!
Make sure there is ketchup in that next bag you’re prepping

 

[Dantés]

Now you’re catching on!!!!
Make sure there is ketchup in that next bag you’re prepping

Maybe post the picture of your sobbing and flailing next time so we can get the mental image to match all the trash you've been posting. Will help the message get through.

 

[CanadaCheese]

Maybe post the picture of your sobbing and flailing next time so we can get the mental image to match all the trash you've been posting. Will help the message get through.

Not sobbing at all
I hate to see incompetence and love to stir up passion in the people who think they are clever.....mission accomplished.... this board is kinda fun and you are the best
Flip the burgers and don’t screw up that next order!!!

 

[Dantés]

Not sobbing at all
I hate to see incompetence and love to stir up passion in the people who think they are clever.....mission accomplished.... this board is kinda fun and you are the best

You've been all up in your feelings posting irrational rants since this thing started. You're a cliche.

 

[CanadaCheese]

You've been all up in your feelings posting irrational rants since this thing started. You're a cliche.

My posts have be spot on and strategically placed for maximum effect
Vannila shake...not chocolate!!!!

 

[Spanky]

This doesn't make any sense to me.

LaFleur's offense is a great system that's proving very effective all over the league. There's no reason Rodgers can't run it. There's literally nothing about it that doesn't suit his skill set.

Put the crack pipe down.

I hope the Packers are paying you well. I'd hate to see someone working so hard for no pay.