The Point of the Draft Picks

Taryn Miller

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LOL

you called them apples and oranges and called it weak, what was it supposed to mean if not dismissive?

Then you proceeded to tell us how teams may have had reasons to pass on Rodgers ranging from they didn't like him to, they didn't need him. Which was my point. Teams like some players, not others and in hindsight they get all sorts of decisions right or wrong. You said it's different today, I present Lamar Jackson, 32nd pick in the 2018 NFL draft and 2019 NFL MVP. I can think of at least 10 teams that still need a QB that should have picked him. Win some, lose some.

The story on Love isn't written yet, they can't even have OTA's.


I clearly wrote from the maybe point of view, and not the definite.
 

Mondio

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I clearly wrote from the maybe point of view, and not the definite.
let's recap

YOU asked this,




... but I cannot help but ask if Love is such a talent that will emerge in 2 years, why did the Raiders and Jac not select him with their second 1st round picks or why wouldn't Pitts make a trade-up to secure their after Big Ben's couple of years left, and if IND was going to draft Love ahead of GB, then only having Rivers for one year certainly should have had them be much more inclined to get him than GB, where Rodgers is for the next 4 years...

and I answered it with a question, why did all those teams pass on Rodgers and Brady. and you responded with this

However, how QB's today are seen is much different than with Rodgers and Brady's time of drafting.
Apples and oranges comparisons are always used to support weak argument.

What's "maybe" about that?
 

Scott Spurgeon

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Love has a good arm and skill set. Would he be ready to go if Aaron goes down this fall? No. Will he be ready to take over in 2 years? Maybe. It's a Boom or Bust pick just like Rashad Gary last year, AJ Dillon and Josiah Deguara. Booms or Busts. Things are looking more like 2011-2012 in San Francisco when Jim Harbaugh took over HC. We may see the same results. Both on the Field and Financially as a result of Harbaugh's tenure.
 

Taryn Miller

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let's recap

YOU asked this,






and I answered it with a question, why did all those teams pass on Rodgers and Brady. and you responded with this



What's "maybe" about that?


Look at Brady college stats...he played 29 games, 30 TD's. 17 Int's, 90 rush Att's with a -150 and an -1.7 per, 4400 pass yds, and not a physical specimen. Where would you have drafted him. He is the outlier of success at selection 199.

Rodgers dropped for whatever reason, but there's a reason and there's reason's why Love didn't go higher, and passed over twice by two teams with two 1st rd picks and both could use an assumed next decade QB, right. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why. Just tossing some thoughts.
Thanks for the chat.
 

captainWIMM

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If you say it was stupid no matter what, then when you say "if it works out it was a good move" you're contradicting yourself.

If your first statement is true, stupid no matter what, then the following statement must also be true, "if it works, it was still a stupid move."

I considering the move stupid has no effect on how it will work out. If Love develops i to the next franchise quarterback I was obviously wrong about it.

It's not that difficult to understand.

After attempting to figure out what you're trying to say in #2, I've decided to just take your advice on #1.

Do you know there's a difference between being intellectual honest and dishonest???

anyway, outside of Burrows, i'm not sure I would have picked any QB before Love in that draft, and I'm talking any team. Physically this kid has everything you need to be a really good QB. I would have taken him over Tua likely and definitely over Herbert.

Tagovailoa is a much better prospect than Love.

Look at Brady college stats...he played 29 games, 30 TD's. 17 Int's, 90 rush Att's with a -150 and an -1.7 per, 4400 pass yds, and not a physical specimen.

Just for the record, sacks and lost yardage because of it are included in the rushing stats for quarterbacks in college.
 

Mondio

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Tagovailoa is a much better prospect than Love.



Just for the record, sacks and lost yardage because of it are included in the rushing stats for quarterbacks in college.
I don't think tagoviola can take a licking and keep on ticking. Seems to get taken out by regular football plays with regularity. They don't get lighter and slower at the next level.

all my point was, people pass on players and pick other players for all sorts of reasons. Sure there are reasons Love dropped to where we could pick him, just as there were reasons Rodgers did or any other player that wasn't picked first. But it doesn't mean there aren't any reasons for them getting picked where they did.
 

captainWIMM

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I don't think tagoviola can take a licking and keep on ticking. Seems to get taken out by regular football plays with regularity. They don't get lighter and slower at the next level.

all my point was, people pass on players and pick other players for all sorts of reasons. Sure there are reasons Love dropped to where we could pick him, just as there were reasons Rodgers did or any other player that wasn't picked first. But it doesn't mean there aren't any reasons for them getting picked where they did.

I agree with your point but believe Tagovailoa is a better prospect. Of course just because he was selected before Love it's possible that ends up being wrong.
 

Taryn Miller

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I considering the move stupid has no effect on how it will work out. If Love develops i to the next franchise quarterback I was obviously wrong about it.

It's not that difficult to understand.



Do you know there's a difference between being intellectual honest and dishonest???



Tagovailoa is a much better prospect than Love.



Just for the record, sacks and lost yardage because of it are included in the rushing stats for quarterbacks in college.


OK, but that speaks to his athleticism, once he left the pocket, dead meat. Wouldn't and doesn't that speak to him being selected 199 at the time. What team would invest in a statue. IIRC, Rodgers was deemed short on athleticism early, until he proved them wrong.
 

Fredrik87

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LOL

you called them apples and oranges and called it weak, what was it supposed to mean if not dismissive?

Then you proceeded to tell us how teams may have had reasons to pass on Rodgers ranging from they didn't like him to, they didn't need him. Which was my point. Teams like some players, not others and in hindsight they get all sorts of decisions right or wrong. You said it's different today, I present Lamar Jackson, 32nd pick in the 2018 NFL draft and 2019 NFL MVP. I can think of at least 10 teams that still need a QB that should have picked him. Win some, lose some.

The story on Love isn't written yet, they can't even have OTA's.

Lamar Jackson is a horrible comp.

I'd say he was a boom or bust prospect just like Love when he came out who also showed some concerning plays on tape in which he made some questionable decisions which led to his slide in the draft but other than that the situations are entirely different.

Lamar has always had ridicules rushing ability and DID play against good competition in fact better teams than his own and with success
unlike Love who's athletic ability isn't anything special and played terrible against bad competition and worse against good.
Then you have to look at the fact we have Rodgers a HOF QB and his contract that makes him hard to move vs the Ravens having Joe Flacco and his contract at the time.
As well as the fact that the Ravens traded down multiple times minimizing their risk by adding more picks when they picked a high risk player(Lamar) vs us trading up and actually increasing our risk in taking a already high risk prospect(Love).
 

Fat Dogs

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Look at Brady college stats...he played 29 games, 30 TD's. 17 Int's, 90 rush Att's with a -150 and an -1.7 per, 4400 pass yds, and not a physical specimen. Where would you have drafted him. He is the outlier of success at selection 199.

Rodgers dropped for whatever reason, but there's a reason and there's reason's why Love didn't go higher, and passed over twice by two teams with two 1st rd picks and both could use an assumed next decade QB, right. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why. Just tossing some thoughts.
Thanks for the chat.


I remember reading an article about the 2005 draft but can’t seem to find it. One GM mentioned that there was zero chance that Rodgers would drop out of the top 5. The 49ers, Dolphins, Browns, Bears, and Bucs were all QB needy teams. This GM said that he couldn’t believe Rodgers was there when he was on the clock. He claimed that he knew Rodgers football resume but never brought him in for an interview. This could be the case for a lot of those teams.
 

Mondio

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Lamar Jackson is a horrible comp.

I'd say he was a boom or bust prospect just like Love when he came out who also showed some concerning plays on tape in which he made some questionable decisions which led to his slide in the draft but other than that the situations are entirely different.

Lamar has always had ridicules rushing ability and DID play against good competition in fact better teams than his own and with success
unlike Love who's athletic ability isn't anything special and played terrible against bad competition and worse against good.
Then you have to look at the fact we have Rodgers a HOF QB and his contract that makes him hard to move vs the Ravens having Joe Flacco and his contract at the time.
As well as the fact that the Ravens traded down multiple times minimizing their risk by adding more picks when they picked a high risk player(Lamar) vs us trading up and actually increasing our risk in taking a already high risk prospect(Love).
They're all terrible, because Brady and Rodgers don't happen very often at all.

The point is, teams pick and pass on players all the ****ing time! What's so hard to get? someone asks how someone can pass on Love, well I don't know, why did people pass on Rodgers? I don't know if Love is going to be any good, odds are overwhelmingly against him being great. in 15 years there is maybe 1 or 2 qb's picked that even have a chance at getting rodgers level for a career despite 2-5 new "greats" being drafted every year since and much higher than he was.

That's it, that's all there is to it. Just admit everyone's pre-draft assessments are usually pretty wrong. The point isn't to compare the Ravens and Packers or love and Lamar. the point is, good players get picked after lots of people passed them over, even teams needing QB's.
 

GleefulGary

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I'm not sure why this is so difficult, but comparing a situation like Mahomes, or Jackson, or anybody else, is not the same as comparing skills/playing level. This isn't that hard.
 

GleefulGary

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In regards to Love, I'm quite a bit higher on him now than I was before the draft. Before the draft, I saw the stats, didn't want to draft a QB, and thought at best he's another gunslinger type like Jameis Winston.

After watching, there's obviously still some concerns. That's why he needs to sit and learn for a while. But...he makes throws that very few QB's can. He shows excellent touch, timing, and power. He also shows poor timing, inaccuracy, and just dumb plays. Some of that is trying to make plays happen, some of it is just poor awareness.

I'll say this though. He's willing to take a chance. You can reign down that aggressiveness. A QB like Herbert, can you make him more aggressive down field? Doesn't happen often.

I didn't want the Packers to draft a QB, but I can understand why they drafted Love. He has the chance to be really, really, good. I mean, some crazy good throws out there. Some bad ones too. Here's to hoping it works out and we get another 10-15 years of great QB play.
 

Fat Dogs

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In regards to Love, I'm quite a bit higher on him now than I was before the draft. Before the draft, I saw the stats, didn't want to draft a QB, and thought at best he's another gunslinger type like Jameis Winston.

After watching, there's obviously still some concerns. That's why he needs to sit and learn for a while. But...he makes throws that very few QB's can. He shows excellent touch, timing, and power. He also shows poor timing, inaccuracy, and just dumb plays. Some of that is trying to make plays happen, some of it is just poor awareness.

I'll say this though. He's willing to take a chance. You can reign down that aggressiveness. A QB like Herbert, can you make him more aggressive down field? Doesn't happen often.

I didn't want the Packers to draft a QB, but I can understand why they drafted Love. He has the chance to be really, really, good. I mean, some crazy good throws out there. Some bad ones too. Here's to hoping it works out and we get another 10-15 years of great QB play.


This is fair and I hope you are right. We are very fortunate to have a QB that doesn’t turn the ball over. Nothing kills momentum more than a forced throw into coverage. I’m probably going to get grilled for saying this but Favre use to drive me crazy. He was very exciting to watch and made jaw dropping plays but we also forget the wth moments. Love isn’t afraid to throw the ball into double and triple coverage and that’s a good/horrible trait to have. I’ll cheers and cross my fingers to the next 10-14 years with you.
 

GleefulGary

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This is fair and I hope you are right. We are very fortunate to have a QB that doesn’t turn the ball over. Nothing kills momentum more than a forced throw into coverage. I’m probably going to get grilled for saying this but Favre use to drive me crazy. He was very exciting to watch and made jaw dropping plays but we also forget the wth moments. Love isn’t afraid to throw the ball into double and triple coverage and that’s a good/horrible trait to have. I’ll cheers and cross my fingers to the next 10-14 years with you.

Totally.

When it comes his willingness to throw downfield into windows that maybe he shouldn't, Love is more like Favre than Rodgers. (Note: I am not comparing Love's ability to Favre or Rodgers here.) Sometimes it works out for an amazing play, sometimes with a really bad play. He's going to have to figure out how to temper that. And really...who better to learn from than Rodgers? Getting to learn how Rodgers reads the field, how he sees film, etc, is the best possible scenario for a player like Love. And competition breeds success, so that'll be fun.
 

captainWIMM

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OK, but that speaks to his athleticism, once he left the pocket, dead meat. Wouldn't and doesn't that speak to him being selected 199 at the time. What team would invest in a statue. IIRC, Rodgers was deemed short on athleticism early, until he proved them wrong.

The point being that teams are wrong about evaluating college players for various reasons all the time. Therefore 25 teams passing on Love doesn't make him a terrible selection by any means.

I'm not above a typo here and there, but in this case I wrote exactly what I meant to.

If that's true the post I was referring to was one of the worst I've read in a long time.
 
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