The overturned 4th and 1 spot

adambr2

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I am still of the thinking the overturning of the 4th down for Dallas was completely wrong. Zeke did extend the ball, tough to tell if it was to the mark or not but close, but then he pulled it back himself. No logical reason the call on the field was overturned. You cannot just reach forward for a mark and pull it back and get that mark unless it's the goal line.

I'd like to hear some explanation within the rules of why it was correct to reverse it. We are fortunate it did not cost us the game but it very well could have.
 

gbgary

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i don't think they should be able to use that overhead shot as the angle of the camera may not be exactly overhead and would/could affect the decision. if it were slightly behind the ball it would make it look over the line, and if it were slightly ahead of the ball it would make it look short of the line. MM needs to protest that call on that basis so it can't be used again. it's not a fixed camera location so it should be void for this purpose...using it for other things would be ok though, but not forward progress.
 

Carl 2

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I am still of the thinking the overturning of the 4th down for Dallas was completely wrong. Zeke did extend the ball, tough to tell if it was to the mark or not but close, but then he pulled it back himself. No logical reason the call on the field was overturned. You cannot just reach forward for a mark and pull it back and get that mark unless it's the goal line.

I'd like to hear some explanation within the rules of why it was correct to reverse it. We are fortunate it did not cost us the game but it very well could have.

Thought the same thing. He was not called down at the time of reaching the ball out either. He was clearly on top of other players and not down yet.
 

kevans74

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I think the thinking is...

HIs forward progress was stopped as the line clearly stuffed the play


BUT... as he was "on top" of other players and thus not technically "(touched)down" he was allowed to extend and reach for the first down

I think that's an iffy call b/c it's like a catch 22...

His forward progress is CLEARLY STOPPED and so the ball should be marked where it was when he was stuffed/stopped at the line

at the SAME TIME, he was still not "touched down" or "down" or on the ground so he could still "reach out" and extend for the first down

It's an iffy call and obviously a smart play by Zeke but they should revisit that rule...
 

GreenBaySlacker

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I think the thinking is...

HIs forward progress was stopped as the line clearly stuffed the play


BUT... as he was "on top" of other players and thus not technically "(touched)down" he was allowed to extend and reach for the first down

I think that's an iffy call b/c it's like a catch 22...

His forward progress is CLEARLY STOPPED and so the ball should be marked where it was when he was stuffed/stopped at the line

at the SAME TIME, he was still not "touched down" or "down" or on the ground so he could still "reach out" and extend for the first down

It's an iffy call and obviously a smart play by Zeke but they should revisit that rule...
He wasn't down and the whistle wasn't blown... he reached out and got forward progress....

But that camera angle along with fish eye wide-angle lenses , can make a pretty decent angle look right in front of you. There could be a skimmy scammy Jerry Jones trickaroo going on there...:cautious:
 

Mondio

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I'm not clear on it either. If it was the goal one it would have been a TD, but that is different. If I'm running for a first down and I get it, but decide to peel back and run back across the grain but then get tackled short of the yard to gain, its marked short because I went back on my own. Kind of the same situation here. At least I'd think so.
 

Zartan

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That rule is very confusing . When he pulled back he was still not down yet.
 

pacmaniac

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Yeah the overhead cam was slightly off, not quite directly over the play. Taking that into consideration, it seemed to me Zeke was just short of the 19 yd line - he did not cross the 19 yd line as the refs said. Also, the fact that he pulled the ball back, it should have been just like that Beasly catch where he caught it at the first down marker, but then pulled it back and then got tackled short of the first down marker.
 

rmontro

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i don't think they should be able to use that overhead shot as the angle of the camera may not be exactly overhead and would/could affect the decision. if it were slightly behind the ball it would make it look over the line, and if it were slightly ahead of the ball it would make it look short of the line.
You could say that about any camera shot though (even if the overhead isn't fixed). It's a judgement call by the refs as to how the camera angle affects the video they are looking at.

The call was odd. I'm not sure of the rule, but I took it that since they were going for a first down, all he had to do was put the ball over the line like a touchdown, and they gave him forward progress. Strange call though. No one seemed to dispute it, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
 

Cali's#1Fan

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What was funny about that call is that the same logic was applied on the Cole beasly catch the play before. He caught it, pulled the ball back and was contacted a yard short of the first down.
 

Guacamole

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looked the right call to me, but the nose of the ball never crosses the 19yd line hash mark and they spot the middle of the ball, splitting the hash mark....

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I am still of the thinking the overturning of the 4th down for Dallas was completely wrong. Zeke did extend the ball, tough to tell if it was to the mark or not but close, but then he pulled it back himself. No logical reason the call on the field was overturned. You cannot just reach forward for a mark and pull it back and get that mark unless it's the goal line.

I'd like to hear some explanation within the rules of why it was correct to reverse it. We are fortunate it did not cost us the game but it very well could have.

That overturned 4th down spot for Dallas should never have happened and GB got screwed by it. Someone needs to teach the replay officials about parallax. Are you familiar with Parallax? Parallax has to do with the angle that you're looking at something. Look at the video and notice during the play when the skycam comes into view it never gets directly over the 19 or even the 20 yard line. It maybe gets to the 22. You can also tell that when they show the replay with the overhead cam you can tell it's not directly over the football so its looking at it from an angle. That angle the cam is looking from makes the football appear to reach the 19 when it really did not. That's parallax and that's a bad call. Anywho, if I knew how to get someone in the NFL to listen to me I'd make a complaint.
 

Mondio

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What was funny about that call is that the same logic was applied on the Cole beasly catch the play before. He caught it, pulled the ball back and was contacted a yard short of the first down.
I think because he had not yet established possession in the field of play yet had something to do with that call. Not sure though.
 
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Also, the fact that he pulled the ball back, it should have been just like that Beasly catch where he caught it at the first down marker, but then pulled it back and then got tackled short of the first down marker.

What was funny about that call is that the same logic was applied on the Cole beasly catch the play before. He caught it, pulled the ball back and was contacted a yard short of the first down.

The defense didn't make contact with Beasley when he caught the ball resulting in forward progress not applying on that play.
 

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