The Jordan Love Era Begins

[Sunshinepacker]

I am getting the Love one 3rd hand. Not sure if true.

The quote on Stokes was unsolicited. MLF brought it up on his own. You are correct if MLF was asked about Stokes. I think he was asked about the new Safeties and their affect on the defense.

Excited to hear the info about Love! I'm not shocked about the coaches being impressed with Stokes, it's the first time he's been healthy in two seasons and he looked REALLY good his rookie season (not so much his sophomore season but the human brain is really good at forgetting the bad and remembering the good). If Stokes can recapture or improve on his rookie season form the Packers' cornerback room is gonna be looking real nice this year.

 

[thequick12]

“It’s night and day,” said Love. “Last year, you have a lot of guys, young receivers, that are learning the playbook. The timing and chemistry is just not really there yet. We go out there today, and it’s just night and day. Guys know exactly where they’re going to be at. We have so much chemistry from last year and built up reps…it’s definitely a big difference.”

Sounds like this offense is gonna be a lot of fun to watch this season

 

[gopkrs]

Just saw an article heading that says Jordan Love expected to be breakout player this year. I sure thought he did that last year. So many articles are written about The Packers by people who really don't know the team much.

 

[Krabs]

Just saw an article heading that says Jordan Love expected to be breakout player this year. I sure thought he did that last year. So many articles are written about The Packers by people who really don't know the team much.

This is why I listen to the local guys. Mainly the local radio guys. They have their thumb on the pulse of the team much more than the national talking heads. I don't even bother with ESPN, Fox or any of that anymore.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

“It’s night and day,” said Love. “Last year, you have a lot of guys, young receivers, that are learning the playbook. The timing and chemistry is just not really there yet. We go out there today, and it’s just night and day. Guys know exactly where they’re going to be at. We have so much chemistry from last year and built up reps…it’s definitely a big difference.”

Sounds like this offense is gonna be a lot of fun to watch this season

I agree.

I would love to see the Packers offensive stats for the last half of 2023, compared to the other 31 teams. While I doubt it was top 5, it's somewhere in the top 10. Love and the young Packer offense seemed to finally hit their stride and were so much better in the last half of the season. I expect that to continue and be even better in 2024. I will miss Jones, but once Jacobs is comfortable in the Packer offense, barring any major injuries, this could be a top 5 offense in 2024.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Just saw an article heading that says Jordan Love expected to be breakout player this year. I sure thought he did that last year. So many articles are written about The Packers by people who really don't know the team much.

I remember a month ago, at the end of the draft, where a national "NFL expert" informed everyone that in his opinion, the Packers' heavy sampling of offensive linemen meant we would probably not be bringing Bakhtiari back this year.

For most of those clowns, Green Bay is just some place halfway between the East Coast and the West Coast, with lots of cows. Oh, yeah, and a football team that gets on a plane every week or two to fly somewhere important and play a game with an important team.

 

[AmishMafia]

Just saw an article heading that says Jordan Love expected to be breakout player this year. I sure thought he did that last year. So many articles are written about The Packers by people who really don't know the team much.

Or maybe robots.

Saw video saying Packer may loose bahk to the Jets. Speaker started by saying hello to all his fellow Packer fans. But he pronounced the name as "back-tee-ah-rye" in a slightly chopped manner. First, of course, he isn't on the team. But that could be a symmantics thing, we lost him and now he may become a jet. But to mispronounce an elite player who has been discussed numerous times in the last few years?

Not a Packer fan. And probably not an NFL fan. But maybe a robot that is scanning news and generating video and voice with an AI engine.

 

[Thirteen Below]

Or maybe robots.

Saw video saying Packer may loose bahk to the Jets. Speaker started by saying hello to all his fellow Packer fans. But he pronounced the name as "back-tee-ah-rye" in a slightly chopped manner. First, of course, he isn't on the team. But that could be a symmantics thing, we lost him and now he may become a jet. But to mispronounce an elite player who has been discussed numerous times in the last few years?

Not a Packer fan. And probably not an NFL fan. But maybe a robot that is scanning news and generating video and voice with an AI engine.

I wonder if you're right. AI fetching up articles from Google, scanning the top-returning articles, and then generating content from it without noticing that all those articles are 4 months old, from when everyone was speculating about what Green Bay was going to do - and they missed the 2 or 3 articles about how he's already gone.

I know I sound like an old man shouting at clouds, but that AI is scary. My wife did a contract gig a few months back evaluating AI applications for a large tech firm that I can't name (because she signed an NDA and I'm not even supposed to have figured out who they are), and it frankly scared the hell out of both of us. Not only what it is capable of doing, but what it looks like the tech companies are planning to use it for (based on what she was tasked with evaluating).It caused us to re-evaluate everything we had been planning for the future.

The world is going to change enormously, probably pretty soon. And it's not going to be "for the betterment of society", or any of that other crap they keep telling us. It's just going to be about making more money by intruding on all of our lives and eliminating human jobs.

 

[OldSchool101]

And with rising housing costs, that property tax keeps going up.

and then if you give up and just kill yourself? Your family pays a death tax!

 

[OldSchool101]

“It’s night and day,” said Love. “Last year, you have a lot of guys, young receivers, that are learning the playbook. The timing and chemistry is just not really there yet. We go out there today, and it’s just night and day. Guys know exactly where they’re going to be at. We have so much chemistry from last year and built up reps…it’s definitely a big difference.”

Sounds like this offense is gonna be a lot of fun to watch this season

This goes with logical thinking. I spoke in here last year to how young the 2023 Offense was in particular. The team as a whole was ranked #1 in age. Yet it was the Offense last year that was a historical anomaly in age. I based my research on games played, because Jordan had only played a handful of games at one point.

Now we have all these 2nd and 3rd year starters. Thats an area in general in any team or any squad that you expect to see production leaps from players. I’ve always said years 2-4 is where you typically see players rise in production. I suspect that could be from Tyler Davis (5th) who effectively missed his 4th season.
Luke Musgrave (2nd) Tucker Kraft (2nd) Doubs (3rd) Watson (3rd)
Toure (3rd) Reed (2nd) Heath (2nd)
Melton (3rd) DuBose(2nd)
Wicks (2nd) and most importantly Love (5th, but just 2nd as starter). It’s very likely we get a production jump as a grouping from these 2nd and 3rd year guys. There’s 10 either 2nd/3rd year players and 7-8 that should see significant playing time. So it’s just hard to imagine a world where none rise up.

My guess (if he’s healthy) is Musgrave will be one of them. He’s going to be relied upon early and often now that Kraft misses time in Camp and possibly Preseason. I already had him pegged in 2024-2025 to be a riser before last year even got going. He’s an intriguing player because of his athletic profile. I think he’s got elements of young Jimmy Graham there with Drew Brees. I’m not suggesting he’ll put up a similar 1,300+ yards in his Sophomore campaign like Graham did, but if you told me he had 800+ and 7TD’s.. it wouldn’t surprise me one bit.

 

[OldSchool101]

Another separate point I’d make about the tandem of Jordan Love/MLF that is notably different from The Rodgers era. Thus far we spread the ball around much more. The last time I’ve seen that happen is under Brett Favre. I don’t want to make this about Rodgers, but let’s just say he had his couple of favorite Receivers and the imbalance across the WR room was apparent.

So far, Love doesn’t seem to pick favorites. He goes more closely with the play design. Whoever is open gets the ball and it doesn’t matter if he dropped a pass or not earlier that day. He doesn’t care if you’re a Rook or an Established veteran, you’ll get your opportunity.

One facet that propelled last year is opposing Defenses had no idea who was getting the ball. Not only did they have minimal film on our players (if any!) they had different players from game to game that led the charge for the Packers. You can’t just double one Davante anymore. If you do Melton will punish you. If you double Watson, Doubs or Wicks will eat you alive. If you double them Musgrave or Kraft will be wandering around by themselves.

This concept of “scattering of the Ball” is almost a non defendable nightmare. That coupled with the motion and confusion created extra mismatches and sometimes totally botched Coverage. We saw guys running near wide open in multiple games. Having an array of talent is one more niche in MLF’s pocket to create confusion and mismatches. We’ve now got the personnel to do it.

I think our OL will be same or better. I think our RB room is better. I think our WR/TE grouping is better. Better than what we saw down the stretch last year. I’m not sure if Love will look better immediately, but if he just holds his own we’re going to be better on Offense as a whole imo. Better than Dallas. Better than Detroit. Better than SF and I don’t say that lightly they are our primary competition now.

 

[tynimiller]

Another separate point I’d make about the tandem of Jordan Love/MLF that is notably different from The Rodgers era. Thus far we spread the ball around much more. The last time I’ve seen that happen is under Brett Favre. I don’t want to make this about Rodgers, but let’s just say he had his couple of favorite Receivers and the imbalance across the WR room was apparent.

So far, Love doesn’t seem to pick favorites. He goes more closely with the play design. Whoever is open gets the ball and it doesn’t matter if he dropped a pass or not earlier that day. He doesn’t care if you’re a Rook or an Established veteran, you’ll get your opportunity.

One facet that propelled last year is opposing Defenses had no idea who was getting the ball. Not only did they have minimal film on our players (if any!) they had different players from game to game that led the charge for the Packers. You can’t just double one Davante anymore. If you do Melton will punish you. If you double Watson, Doubs or Wicks will eat you alive. If you double them Musgrave or Kraft will be wandering around by themselves.

This concept of “scattering of the Ball” is almost a non defendable nightmare. That coupled with the motion and confusion created extra mismatches and sometimes totally botched Coverage. We saw guys running near wide open in multiple games. Having an array of talent is one more niche in MLF’s pocket to create confusion and mismatches. We’ve now got the personnel to do it.

I think our OL will be same or better. I think our RB room is better. I think our WR/TE grouping is better. Better than what we saw down the stretch last year. I’m not sure if Love will look better immediately, but if he just holds his own we’re going to be better on Offense as a whole imo. Better than Dallas. Better than Detroit. Better than SF and I don’t say that lightly they are our primary competition now.

This is recency bias....

Let's look at a few of Rodgers best years:

Undisclosed Year - Rodgers threw for more yards than ANY season before or since and he had receivers with 68, 67, 55, 38 and 37 receptions for the top five receivers....with target breakdown being in the same order 96, 101, 92, 55 and 56.

Undisclosed Year - One of his highest rated and completion % years Rodgers had the top five receivers with 115, 52, 47, 33, 33...target breakdown of 149, 59, 63, 63 and 46....a year with the one target dominance. Yet was one of his (Rodgers') best.

Undisclosed Year - Rodgers' third highest TD year he threw to top five receivers with 97, 75, 60, 44, 30 (a 6th guy tied with 30) and target breakdown was 152, 121, 81, 56, 51 (6th was 47)

Undisclosed Year - Many say this was the season Rodgers made it clear he was legit....top five receivers with 70, 68, 55, 37 and 32 and target breakdown was 113, 119, 72, 54 and 62


Love's first year he had a top five with 64, 59, 39, 34 and 31 (6th with 30)....targets were 94, 96, 58, 46 and 40 (43) *One big caveat about Love's year was his arguably top TE was out with injuries a lot or this could be skewed more....also Watson out a LOT skews it as well possibly.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Thus far we spread the ball around much more. The last time I’ve seen that happen is under Brett Favre. I don’t want to make this about Rodgers, but let’s just say he had his couple of favorite Receivers and the imbalance across the WR room was apparent.

That "situation" was most definitely a result of as you put it, "the imbalance across the WR room". Rodgers spread the ball around when he had a talent in the receiving room. Those who say that Rodgers only threw to his "favorite guys and didn't trust anyone else", are not being totally honest about the situation.

Unfortunately, TT, Gute and the Packers decided that building a better defense was more important than keeping talent in that receivers room. That is probably my biggest criticism of TT's final years and Gute's first 5, they over-relied on a FHOF QB.

Lessons learned and back to Love. I hope Gute remembers what happened with Rodgers and continues to give Love a talented stable of receivers.

 

[Krabs]

That "situation" was most definitely a result of as you put it, "the imbalance across the WR room". Rodgers spread the ball around when he had a talent in the receiving room. Those who say that Rodgers only threw to his "favorite guys and didn't trust anyone else", are not being totally honest about the situation.

Unfortunately, TT, Gute and the Packers decided that building a better defense was more important than keeping talent in that receivers room. That is probably my biggest criticism of TT's final years and Gute's first 5, they over-relied on a FHOF QB.

Lessons learned and back to Love. I hope Gute remembers what happened with Rodgers and continues to give Love a talented stable of receivers.

In 2018 they drafted Moore, Scantling and St. Brown. They did ignore the position in the draft for a couple of years. Could be they had Adams. Then in 2021 they took Amari Rodgers. Pretty big bust for where he was taken. 2022 they took Watson, Doubs and Toure. 2023 They took Reed, Wicks and Dubose. The big bust year for Rodgers was that 2018 season. I think the thought there was that they drafted three WRs that they thought would work out. They already had Adams, Cobb and Lazard. They thought they were adding to it. Those guys didn't work out like they planned. Point is, I don't think it was for lack of trying. I think it was from guys not progressing like they wanted.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In 2018 they drafted Moore, Scantling and St. Brown. They did ignore the position in the draft for a couple of years. Could be they had Adams. Then in 2021 they took Amari Rodgers. Pretty big bust for where he was taken. 2022 they took Watson, Doubs and Toure. 2023 They took Reed, Wicks and Dubose. The big bust year for Rodgers was that 2018 season. I think the thought there was that they drafted three WRs that they thought would work out. They already had Adams, Cobb and Lazard. They thought they were adding to it. Those guys didn't work out like they planned. Point is, I don't think it was for lack of trying. I think it was from guys not progressing like they wanted.

I really don't view the investments (draft picks, trades, FA signings) made in the receiving room (WR's and TE's) by TT and Gute during the time period I am speaking about as "enough". Sure, they threw some 3rd round and later picks at the WR position, but given what happened, I still say both GM's did not do enough, when necessary, to improve the room.

What should a GM do if season after season your QB seems limited in weapons? Draft and develop? Yes, but higher investments. Trades, FA signings? Yes.

Look what Gute did in Free agent signings to improve the Defense. Both Smiths, Amos, now McKinney. Gute's biggest attempt to help the receiving room in Free Agency....Jimmy Graham.

 

[tynimiller]

I've broken down how I disagree that they didn't do anything and believe quite the contrary. The two single biggest reasons I strongly feel we ended up with a year or two issue has nothing to do with them not investing enough it is due to MVS literally was as good his rookie year as he was third year in everything but blocking (which he got exponentially better) AND the fact Lazard growth also became stagnant. BOTH of those guys had Rodgers love early and Lazard never lost that support....fact is neither progressed like I said. If even one of them progressed like all signs indicated and connections in house seemed to hold the whole WR complaining doesn't hold much water AT ALL.

I also think GB played the WR room oddly different than they typically do...we had one of the three PREMIERE players at the position which means typically you just don't invest a ton into it...allocation of resources would say poor choice....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've broken down how I disagree that they didn't do anything and believe quite the contrary.

I guess I have never said that the Packers "didn't do anything" in regards to the receiving room. If I used words that made you think that or somehow implied that I felt that way, I apologize.

What I did say and have been saying and firmly believe, is they didn't do enough. That isn't just using hindsight either.

 

[Krabs]

I really don't view the investments (draft picks, trades, FA signings) made in the receiving room (WR's and TE's) by TT and Gute during the time period I am speaking about as "enough". Sure, they threw some 3rd round and later picks at the WR position, but given what happened, I still say both GM's did not do enough, when necessary, to improve the room.

What should a GM do if season after season your QB seems limited in weapons? Draft and develop? Yes, but higher investments. Trades, FA signings? Yes.

Look what Gute did in Free agent signings to improve the Defense. Both Smiths, Amos, now McKinney. Gute's biggest attempt to help the receiving room in Free Agency....Jimmy Graham.

I don't disagree that they could have done more. No doubt about it. I'm just saying that they did try.

 

[tynimiller]

I guess I have never said that the Packers "didn't do anything" in regards to the receiving room. If I used words that made you think that or somehow implied that I felt that way, I apologize.

What I did say and have been saying and firmly believe, is they didn't do enough. That isn't just using hindsight either.

That's where I differ, it is hindsight allowing that however.....but I've shared that with you quite lengthy and we've always settled on just disagreement which is fine. For those not blessed with Poker and I's past retorts on this (which neither side is without merit FTR)....but I still know what MVS showed his rookie year cannot be ignored. Cobb's untimely big injury after letting Nelson walk...the Jimmy Graham failed experiment shifting some to TE (remember we signed Bennett, Kendricks, Graham and Lewis all in like two years)...and ultimately neither MVS or Lazard every kicking the wall down rising from a WR3 type to a WR2 that had us depleted NOT simply ignoring the position (or whatever verbage we want to use).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't disagree that they could have done more. No doubt about it. I'm just saying that they did try.

I never said that they didn't try, they just didn't try hard enough IMO, i.e. spend enough resources on WR's or TE's.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That's where I differ, it is hindsight allowing that however.....but I've shared that with you quite lengthy and we've always settled on just disagreement which is fine.

For the record, it would be hindsight if one was to only use what has happened as their "sole evidence". However, in my own defense of this subject matter, it is something I have been steadfast on for a long time. A few posters, possibly you, I don't remember who they were, gave me a lot of grief about it back in the day. Saying I was always *****ing about the receiving room and the receiving room was just fine because we had Aaron Rodgers. No doubt Rodgers made up for some of what the receiving room lacked, but there is only so much wine one can make out of pure water.

 

[OldSchool101]

I still think it’s fine to have a WR1. But if that means after him we have a bunch of 3’s and 4’s no thank you.

One thing about Aaron is he has multiple seasons with a #1 WR doubling targets of the next guy. The numbers that @tynimiller pretty much proves my point that there was NOT a relatively even distribution in many seasons and his gracious time taken on the post above shows those seasons.
When you key 2:1 on a particular WR, the Defense gets smart to it and naturally begins to match that focus on said player. We saw this several times in the Postseason. Once you take away the go-to-guy? it becomes a more labored effort looking for other WR’s for that QB. We saw another example of this in particular that year Rodgers led the league in throwaways.

Part of what makes this 2023-2024 grouping successful is there is not a huge disparity in talent. So far none have broken away from the pack so to speak. The shotgun grain is spread around the target pretty good.

Btw this wasn’t an effort to dismantle #12 I was a huge supporter of his and the guys in here that know me already realize or remember that. I came to his Defense many times when it wasn’t popular to do so. I don’t think I owe him an apology at all he probably needs to send me a crowd support check

 

[gopkrs]

In 2018 they drafted Moore, Scantling and St. Brown. They did ignore the position in the draft for a couple of years. Could be they had Adams. Then in 2021 they took Amari Rodgers. Pretty big bust for where he was taken. 2022 they took Watson, Doubs and Toure. 2023 They took Reed, Wicks and Dubose. The big bust year for Rodgers was that 2018 season. I think the thought there was that they drafted three WRs that they thought would work out. They already had Adams, Cobb and Lazard. They thought they were adding to it. Those guys didn't work out like they planned. Point is, I don't think it was for lack of trying. I think it was from guys not progressing like they wanted.

I don't know what changed in 22/23 but they sure drafted w/o better.

 

[OldSchool101]

I also agree that it wasn’t all Rodgers fault. He did have substandard options imo through the second half of his career. I get wanting Defenders but help the guy out a little. Our idea of that became the Sammy Watkins idea.

I really like we’ve got probably 4 guys and any 1 or 2 of them could sail right on past 1,000 yards without raising eyebrows. I think this will be advantageous this year is kind of my point. Didn’t want it to come across as negative to Aaron, if it did sorry it wasn’t meant that way. I will also credit #12 as I can tell Jordan learned many of Aaron’s nuances and #12 seemed to bring him up under his wing.

 

[Schultz]

I really don't view the investments (draft picks, trades, FA signings) made in the receiving room (WR's and TE's) by TT and Gute during the time period I am speaking about as "enough". Sure, they threw some 3rd round and later picks at the WR position, but given what happened, I still say both GM's did not do enough, when necessary, to improve the room.

What should a GM do if season after season your QB seems limited in weapons? Draft and develop? Yes, but higher investments. Trades, FA signings? Yes.

Look what Gute did in Free agent signings to improve the Defense. Both Smiths, Amos, now McKinney. Gute's biggest attempt to help the receiving room in Free Agency....Jimmy Graham.

How dare you forget (like I did) the guy from Carolina who got hurt and never played a down for the Pack?