The Jordan Love Era Begins

[PikeBadger]

We will see. I haven't seen Love intimidated by another team's pass rush yet, either.

Our offensive line has not been completely wrecked by anyone's pass rush this year. They have been excellent overall in pass blocking.

 

[milani]

Our offensive line has not been completely wrecked by anyone's pass rush this year. They have been excellent overall in pass blocking.

Just keep playing. Forget about the numbers and the records.

 

[rmontro]

Our offensive line has not been completely wrecked by anyone's pass rush this year. They have been excellent overall in pass blocking.

And Love has been quick at getting passes off.

 

[rmontro]

I remember an article a few years ago, I can't remember the writer's name, about the debate between who was better Rogers or Brady. He said if you kept everything exactly the same except have Rogers as the Pats quarterback and Brady as the Packers quarterback, it would be Rogers with six rings and Brady with one. Having a great quarterback is a great leg up to winning super bowls, but this is the ultimate team sport.

Maybe, but you never know. Butterfly effect.
And although I think Rodgers is the better quarterback, I do think Brady was more clutch. That might have changed a few things.

 

[gopkrs]

Our offensive line has not been completely wrecked by anyone's pass rush this year. They have been excellent overall in pass blocking.

I still think we should be drafting for some better players on the O line. You have to have those reserves to come in and do a good job. Need to keep stocked so we don't have to overpay when contract time comes up.

 

[Schultz]

Maybe, but you never know. Butterfly effect.
And although I think Rodgers is the better quarterback, I do think Brady was more clutch. That might have changed a few things.

IMO a Rodgers/Belichek relationship may not have been the best. We will never know.

 

[milani]

I still think we should be drafting for some better players on the O line. You have to have those reserves to come in and do a good job. Need to keep stocked so we don't have to overpay when contract time comes up.

Not sure if losing Tom last night hurt our protection.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

That argument would work if it was say 3 to 2 or even 4-2 but when the guy has 6 you gotta give him credit too

I've posted it elsewhere but I think Brady's defenses in the playoffs gave up 30+ points a total of 7 times over his entire career? Rodgers' defenses have averaged giving up over 30 over his career. So no, I don't have to give a QB credit for consistently having an elite defense. I give that credit to the coach and defensive players.

 

[rmontro]

I still think we should be drafting for some better players on the O line. You have to have those reserves to come in and do a good job. Need to keep stocked so we don't have to overpay when contract time comes up.

Yeah, I feel like the 49ers are beating us in the trenches, that's where the difference is, and probably coaching.

IMO a Rodgers/Belichek relationship may not have been the best. We will never know.

Yes, there is such a thing as chemistry. Belichick had it with Brady, would he have had it with Rodgers? Not so sure.

 

[rmontro]

I'm hearing people saying now Jordan Love will be one of the highest paid quarterbacks in the league. No doubt he deserves it, but we just got out from under Rodgers contract. I know these are first world problems to have, but still.

 

[tynimiller]

I've posted it elsewhere but I think Brady's defenses in the playoffs gave up 30+ points a total of 7 times over his entire career? Rodgers' defenses have averaged giving up over 30 over his career. So no, I don't have to give a QB credit for consistently having an elite defense. I give that credit to the coach and defensive players.

Okay, I personally say make claims post info at least so for anyone reading here is some figures from Brady and Rodgers games in playoffs:

Tom Brady playoffs *marked SBs
2001 season 16-13 / 24-17 / 20-17*
2003 season 17-14 / 24-14 / 32-29*
2004 season 20-3 / 41-27 / 24-21*
2005 season 28-3 / 13-27
2006 season 37-16 / 24-21 / 34-38*
2007 season 31-20 / 21-12 / 14-17*
2009 season 14-33
2010 season 21-28
2011 season 45-10 / 23-20 / 17-21*
2012 season 41-28 / 13-28
2013 season 43-22 / 16-26
2014 season 35-31 / 45-7 / 28-24* (first time he won when defense gave up 30 or more in playoffs)
2015 season 27-20 / 18-20
2016 season 34-16 / 36-17 / 34-28*
2017 season 35-14 / 24-20 / 33-41*
2018 season 41-28 / 37-31 / 13-3* (second and last time he won when defense gave up 30 or more)
2019 season 13-20
2020 season 31-23 / 30-20 / 31-26 / 31-9*
2021 season 31-15 / 27-30
2022 season 14-31

His teams ALL time in playoffs averaged giving up: 20.8 pts a game

vs

Aaron Rodgers:
2007 season 42-20 / 20-23
2009 season 45-51
2010 season 21-16 / 48-21 / 21-14 / 31-25*
2011 season 20-37
2012 season 24-10 / 31-45
2013 season 20-23
2014 season 26-21 / 22-28
2015 season 35-18 / 20-26
2016 season 38-13 / 34-31 / 24-44 (first time he won when defense gave up 30 or more)
2019 season 28-23 / 20-37
2020 season 32-18 / 26-31
2021 season 10-13

GB defenses in those years averaged giving up: 25.6 pts per game

 

[GleefulGary]

But one that nearly everyone recognizes and uses.

Just because a bunch of idiots use QB wins doesn’t mean it isn’t a useless stat.

 

[GleefulGary]

I'm hearing people saying now Jordan Love will be one of the highest paid quarterbacks in the league. No doubt he deserves it, but we just got out from under Rodgers contract. I know these are first world problems to have, but still.

Would you rather have a QB who isn’t good enough to get paid at the top the league?

 

[Half Empty]

Just because a bunch of idiots use QB wins doesn’t mean it isn’t a useless stat.

Not important enough to fight over, but I always have trouble navigating double negatives. What you're saying is that QB wins IS a useless stat that us idiots shouldn't employ?

 

[BrokenArrow]

Not important enough to fight over, but I always have trouble navigating double negatives. What you're saying is that QB wins IS a useless stat that us idiots shouldn't employ?

I would re-interpret it as, "Even though a bunch of idiots use it, QB wins is still a useless stat." I wouldn't personally call it useless, but I'd say it's overblown by some.

 

[thequick12]

Just because a bunch of idiots use QB wins doesn’t mean it isn’t a useless stat.

While I whole heartedly agree with your logic there...it doesn't work in all cases. 99 billion served at McDonald's certainly doesn't mean its good food

But qb wins isn't a useless stat. Its similar to pitcher wins in baseball. Yes Aaron Rodgers went 6 and 10 in his first year as a starter. And qb wins didnt mean sht cuz you could see that the qb did enough to win but the rest of the team didnt. Over a larger sample size, what happened? Rodgers qb win/loss record improved dramatically which coincided with him becoming one of the greatest to ever play the game

 

[PackerDNA]

I would re-interpret it as, "Even though a bunch of idiots use it, QB wins is still a useless stat." I wouldn't personally call it useless, but I'd say it's overblown by some.

This. While it's not the be-all and end-all, it is a fair consideration.

 

[BrokenArrow]

While I whole heartedly agree with your logic there...it doesn't work in all cases. 99 billion served at McDonald's certainly doesn't mean its good food

But qb wins isn't a useless stat. Its similar to pitcher wins in baseball. Yes Aaron Rodgers went 6 and 10 in his first year as a starter. And qb wins didnt mean sht cuz you could see that the qb did enough to win but the rest of the team didnt. Over a larger sample size, what happened? Rodgers qb win/loss record improved dramatically which coincided with him becoming one of the greatest to ever play the game

So how do you differentiate between a "QB win" and a team win? The best QB in the world doesn't win without a good team around him, but the best teams often manage to win with mediocre QBs.

 

[Half Empty]

So how do you differentiate between a "QB win" and a team win? The best QB in the world doesn't win without a good team around him, but the best teams often manage to win with mediocre QBs.

Let's work in the other direction. How would you rate QBs?

 

[BrokenArrow]

Let's work in the other direction. How would you rate QBs?

On a play-by-play basis, taking into consideration the game situation, decision-making and execution on each play.

 

[AmishMafia]

On a play-by-play basis, taking into consideration the game situation, decision-making and execution on each play.

A spike to stop the clock and a pass out of bounds when nobody was open or about to take a sack shouldn't count against a QB. They were the right thing to do. I think PFF takes those kind of things into account.

 

[BrokenArrow]

A spike to stop the clock and a pass out of bounds when nobody was open or about to take a sack shouldn't count against a QB. They were the right thing to do. I think PFF takes those kind of things into account.

That's why I like ESPN's QB rating. QB starts each game with a rating of 60.0. Then each play is graded from -2.5 to 2.5 along with some other factors. So while passer rating is going to make a QB look really good if he throws a screen pass and the RB breaks several tackles and takes it 75 yards to the house, that same play is probably going to rate a 0.5 or 1.0 in the QBR system.

Meanwhile, if a QB throws for 5 yards and a gets a first down to seal the game, it isn't going to affect passer rating much at all. But let's say it's 3rd and 4 and the defense sends 3 extra guys. QB has two guys bearing down on him and forces him to scramble. At the last second, he sees his TE flash open and throws a dime into a small window across his body. The ball is perfectly thrown and wins the game. That's going to rate a 2.0 or 2.5 play. Now let's say the TE drops that perfectly thrown ball. The QB is still going to get the same rating as if it were caught.

Also, an INT will always negatively affect passer rating. But with QBR, even an INT can result in a positive grade for the QB if the fault for the INT is placed with the receiver, ie. the ball is well-thrown and hits the receiver in the hands, who promptly tips it into the air and it gets picked.

 

[thequick12]

So how do you differentiate between a "QB win" and a team win? The best QB in the world doesn't win without a good team around him, but the best teams often manage to win with mediocre QBs.

You don't, theyre all team wins but qbs, pitchers, and I believe nhl goalies all get credit individually for wins and losses.

Should coaches not have their win loss records recorded as a stat? Its not always their fault if their team loses nor are they always responsible for getting the win

That mediocre qb will not show up on the list of nfl qbs, nhl goalies, mlb pitchers with the most career wins.

 

[pacmaniac]

On a play-by-play basis, taking into consideration the game situation, decision-making and execution on each play.

This might be what the ESPN QBR does.

 

[rmontro]

On a play-by-play basis, taking into consideration the game situation, decision-making and execution on each play.

If a QB is good at that, he's liable to rack up a lot of QB wins. Definitely don't think it's a useless stat, it just doesn't exist in a vaccuum.