The case against the shields deal

Ace

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And as true as it is that's absurd! I'd like to see how well Sherman would fair in a division with more than 1 or 2 good Wrs closer to 1. The NFC west isn't exactly loaded with receiving talent outside of Fitzgerald.

And yet the NFC North is and Shields got half that but Teddy doesn't know what he's doing
 

Oshkoshpackfan

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I live in Seattle area. Sherman is talking 5 year 70 mill. Somebody will pay it if the Seahawks cant re-sign him to an extension this year

I can ask for a corvette for christmas, does not mean I will get it...... Is sherman the best? maybe, it's debateable.... but I don't think he will get 5 yrs 70 mill..... that is tooooo much of a hit on anyones cap, unless they don't have a worthwhile QB to resign or anyone else worth a damn....and what team can do that?
 

rodell330

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And yet the NFC North is and Shields got half that but Teddy doesn't know what he's doing

Many people ( not me) consider Sherman elite and the best corner in the game and Shields just solid. That could also have alot to do with it;) so can't really give Teddy to much credit there. You're comparing apples to oranges.
 

brandon2348

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And as true as it is that's absurd! I'd like to see how well Sherman would fair in a division with more than 1 or 2 good Wrs closer to 1. The NFC west isn't exactly loaded with receiving talent outside of Fitzgerald. Still think Patterson is better than Sherman.


I agree a 1000 percent. Sherman had the best D-line in the league helping him and one of the best free safeties in Earl Thomas. Plus, the quarterbacks and receivers in that division are not all that great from top to bottom. I like Patterson better then Sherman too.
 

brandon2348

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I can ask for a corvette for christmas, does not mean I will get it...... Is sherman the best? maybe, it's debateable.... but I don't think he will get 5 yrs 70 mill..... that is tooooo much of a hit on anyones cap, unless they don't have a worthwhile QB to resign or anyone else worth a damn....and what team can do that?


Seattle Sea-chickens financial cliff bubble in 2015

Russell Wilson 18 mill

Richard Sherman 12-14 mill

Earl Thomas 8-10 mill

And I am not even throwing in Wagner, Wright, Irvin and others. There already capped out this year after signing Bennett for 10 mill against cap and have to cut more players. They can't even keep there big 40 million dollar D-line intact this year. I love it.
 

Oshkoshpackfan

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And as true as it is that's absurd! I'd like to see how well Sherman would fair in a division with more than 1 or 2 good Wrs closer to 1. The NFC west isn't exactly loaded with receiving talent outside of Fitzgerald. Still think Patterson is better than Sherman.

You said "good" WR's, right? There is more in the NFC west than just Larry Fitz. SF has Boldin and Crabtree, both good. The cardinals have Larry Fitz and Michael Floyd, one is great and the other is good. Not to mention, sherman did a good job in the play-offs and in the superbowl..... so how did he not face any good WR's? He did play in games outside his division too ya know. Other teams with good WR's he faced: Steve smith, cecil shorts, andre johnson, vincent jackson, julio jones, roddy white (inj), gregg jennings, lance moore, victor cruz ...... those guys are all "good" or better than good.
 
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Just|Me

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maybe I missed it but didn't Shields receive "only" $12.5Mio ($15Mio if you add the 2014 salary as a given) in guaranteed money over that 4 year span? sounds to me like a pretty solid deal.
 

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1. The entire defense is broken… One can also make the case that Sam Shields, who was the team’s Defensive Player of the Year in 2013, prevented that defensive unit from being that much worse. However, maintaining the status quo at cornerback isn’t what is going to solve the ailments that this defense suffers from, and I’d even go far as to venture that the Packers have enough talent on the roster at corner to be competitive if the more important areas were addressed.
As mentioned by adambr2, it doesn’t make sense to lose the team’s defensive player of the year in order to make the D better. (If Clay were healthy all season and had an average season for him, but IMO an easy argument can be made that Shields is the second best player on the D.) The author provides the evidence:
Zach Kruse tweeted last night that Shields was money against some of the receivers he matched up against last season. A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Brandon Marshall and Calvin Johnson in 2013 (5 games): Allowed 8 catches, 129 yards, 1 TD. Zach went on to add that these statistics were derived only from passes targeted at Shields, and that the only receivers who got the best of Sam last season were Anquan Boldin in the opener and Pierre Garcon in garbage time.
As for the Packers having enough talent on the roster at CB, the author writes:
Look, would I be thrilled with Tramon Williams starting alongside Casey Hayward or Davon House next year instead of Shields? Of course not. Both are oft-injured players who haven’t come close to showing what their real potential might actually be.
So the argument seems to be Shields was overpaid and his deal will probably mean saying goodbye to Tramon after the 2014 season. But according to the authors own logic why would overpaying an older Tramon next off season make more sense than overpaying a young Shields now? And doesn’t make more sense to have this season to find out if a starting CB is currently on the roster (or that one was acquired in the upcoming draft)?
If the Packers had all the other pieces in place and could afford this contract, this is actually a really good deal. He could be let go after 2015 with only a $6.25M signing bonus acceleration. But again, the feeling of saving money today and kicking the cost/decisions down the road mask the real issues.
Thompson can be accused of a lot of things (actually just a couple of things IMO), but “kicking the cost/decisions down the road” isn’t one of them.
In addition, we're hardly finalizing our 2014 roster right now.
 

Bagadeez04

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I don't think anyone has a problem with the Sam Shields signing on its face...they have a problem with how TT is perfectly willing to overspend on his own guys, with mixed results, while he won't do the same to outside free agents. In the cases of Aaron Rodgers (first contract), AJ Hawk, Morgan Burnett and Sam Shields, he has paid nearly elite money to players who were clearly not at that level. He does so in the hopes they get there eventually (Rodgers worked out well), but as in the cases of Hawk and Burnett, it isn't always what winds up happening. So the question becomes, does the $3-4 million/year extra that was paid to Shields wind up paying dividends? Only time will tell.

But it makes it difficult for me to understand why Ted is so frugal on outsiders in UFA. Because obviously he can be as wrong about his own guys as he can about someone else's guys. So why not take a shot every few years or so on a guy you really like...even if you pay a little bit too much for him. He will do so for his guys...why not for others?
 

NOMOFO

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I don't think anyone has a problem with the Sam Shields signing on its face...they have a problem with how TT is perfectly willing to overspend on his own guys, with mixed results, while he won't do the same to outside free agents. In the cases of Aaron Rodgers (first contract), AJ Hawk, Morgan Burnett and Sam Shields, he has paid nearly elite money to players who were clearly not at that level. He does so in the hopes they get there eventually (Rodgers worked out well), but as in the cases of Hawk and Burnett, it isn't always what winds up happening. So the question becomes, does the $3-4 million/year extra that was paid to Shields wind up paying dividends? Only time will tell.

But it makes it difficult for me to understand why Ted is so frugal on outsiders in UFA. Because obviously he can be as wrong about his own guys as he can about someone else's guys. So why not take a shot every few years or so on a guy you really like...even if you pay a little bit too much for him. He will do so for his guys...why not for others?

"Shields is clearly not elite"? Granted, "elite" is an awfully strong word but... I just read this at SI right now:

In 2013 alone, he played in five games where he faced off against either A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Brandon Marshall or Calvin Johnson—the giants of the receiver position. But according to data at Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Shields allowed just eight catches for 129 yards and one touchdown when targeted against those receivers last season. The numbers include a shutout against Gordon, the NFL's leading receiver in 2013.

I don't think anyone can argue that that is a pretty impressive run right there.
 

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I'm REALLY cofused...how can people not admit that Sherman is an elite corner? Unless I missed something he helped shut down one of the most prolific offenses in history!

In their first game against New Orleans, he allowed one catch to Lance Moore for 7 yards. That was the only completion he gave up. In the second matchup he didn't give up a single catch. He didn't allow a single catch against the 49ers in their playoff game (in the first game he gave up 3 receptions for 26 yards).


So, from what I can tell, he faced off against Drew Brees twice, the Broncos once, and the 49ers twice (and before someone says they can't throw the ball, they did a pretty good job against us two times). I'd say that's a decent enough ppassing schedule.
 

Pack....man!!!

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Sherman is elite , he holds an
awful lot... But he does shuts down the other teams best receiver.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

brandon2348

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I'm REALLY cofused...how can people not admit that Sherman is an elite corner? Unless I missed something he helped shut down one of the most prolific offenses in history!

In their first game against New Orleans, he allowed one catch to Lance Moore for 7 yards. That was the only completion he gave up. In the second matchup he didn't give up a single catch. He didn't allow a single catch against the 49ers in their playoff game (in the first game he gave up 3 receptions for 26 yards).


So, from what I can tell, he faced off against Drew Brees twice, the Broncos once, and the 49ers twice (and before someone says they can't throw the ball, they did a pretty good job against us two times). I'd say that's a decent enough ppassing schedule.


I'm waiting to see what Sherman does this year. Then I will make that call as "elite corner". There schedule was cake last year overall as far as teams that can throw the ball and it's not gonna be this year. Also, They have already lost three of there D-lineman to free agency and are getting ready to cut a fourth. We will see what "big mouth" Sherman does this year without all the help up front and against a heavier dose of better offenses.
 

NelsonsLongCatch

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I agree with the statement that "you don't improve the defense by keeping the status quo", but you also don't improve the defense by getting rid of your best secondary player.
 

Sunshinepacker

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I'm waiting to see what Sherman does this year. Then I will make that call as "elite corner". There schedule was cake last year overall as far as teams that can throw the ball and it's not gonna be this year. Also, They have already lost three of there D-lineman to free agency and are getting ready to cut a fourth. We will see what "big mouth" Sherman does this year without all the help up front and against a heavier dose of better offenses.


How can you say their schedule was cake last year in light of the teams I just mentioned? Facing the 49ers twice, New Orleans twice and the Bronocos once isn't an easy passing schedule....they faced more Pro Bowl quarterbacks than we did.
 
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"Shields is clearly not elite"? Granted, "elite" is an awfully strong word but... I just read this at SI right now:

In 2013 alone, he played in five games where he faced off against either A.J. Green, Josh Gordon, Brandon Marshall or Calvin Johnson—the giants of the receiver position. But according to data at Pro Football Focus (subscription required), Shields allowed just eight catches for 129 yards and one touchdown when targeted against those receivers last season. The numbers include a shutout against Gordon, the NFL's leading receiver in 2013.

I don't think anyone can argue that that is a pretty impressive run right there.

No doubt those stats are pretty impressive, although it should be mentioned that he wasn´t covering Gordon and Marshall most of the time during those games.
 

Carl

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No doubt those stats are pretty impressive, although it should be mentioned that he wasn´t covering Gordon and Marshall most of the time during those games.

How much did he cover those wr then?

I have no idea about Gordon and Marshall, but we was matched up with AJ Green for most of the Bengals game and Green only had 4 receptions for 46 yards and a TD.
 

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