Ted Thompson Era Should Be Over

[Deleted member 6794]

Having said that, yeah TT should have his feet held to the fire if we don't see some depth added to the roster, or if something isn't done to add to S&C coaching to minimize injuries. But I feel like if for once we can go without loading down our IR spaces, we got a good chance to make a run all the way through.

The Packers haven't suffered more injuries than most teams over the last three seasons, therefore repeatedly using them as an excuse for the team not winning a Super Bowl is lame. I don't expect any change within the strength and conditioning staff as it seems the players absolutely love those guys.

You really cannot rail and overtly critize a GM who has been able to put together a team that makes it to the NFCCG 3 times with 1 super Bowl win, in 11 years, without sounding just a little bit naive ...

Thompson has hugely benefitted from having two Hall of Fame starting quarterbacks for his entire tenure, therefore having won a single Super Bowl and making it to three NFCCG in 12 seasons isn't that impressive. Of course he deserves huge credit for drafting Rodgers but I'm quite sure several other general managers using all methods to improve the roster would have been more successful with a generational talent like #12.

 

[rmontro]

You really cannot rail and overtly critize a GM who has been able to put together a team that makes it to the NFCCG 3 times with 1 super Bowl win, in 11 years, without sounding just a little bit naive ...

I agree that it is wrong to say Thompson is a terrible GM, I think it's pretty clear he's a good one. But he has a few fatal flaws that hold the team back from reaching its potential. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, he has to loosen up with his approach a bit. And I'm not sure I have confidence in his picks on the defensive side of the ball anyway. Not that he can't make good picks, but enough to turn this around? I'm not sure.

Even though we made it to the NFCCG this year, I don't know if it's exactly right to say we got close, because it's difficult to picture winning it all with the defense that we had. In fact, we were very fortunate that we got out of Dallas with a win, because that game was headed towards a Seattle sized collapse, and was only saved by Rodgers, Crosby's foot, and possibly Dak Prescott spiking the ball when he shouldn't have.

 

[Mondio]

why do people think he can't draft defensive players? because some didn't pan out? I don't know what Datone's deal is, he's flashed ability, but is consistently in consistent. Perry has shown what he can do healthy, but Ted doesn't pass out the healthy pills to only certain players. It doesn't work that way. Some guys are too young and were injured to know either way, but when you look at Daniels, bringing in Tramon, drafting one of the best safeties to play the game in today's NFL from a school nobody watches in Nick Collins, UDFA sam Shields, Burnett, Ha Ha, Clay Matthews, Raji certainly showed what he was capable of for a while in this league. Those are certainly players that a defense can be built around.

But as it turns out, Shields' career was cut short. Those are mighty big shoes to fill. Nick Collins, another all pro, career ended in the prime. Matthews shouldn't be in decline right now, but it appears he is. Raji quit. Those guys should STILL be the corner stone of this defense, with everyone else around them as role players and if we got some playmakers great. But football happened and it didn't work out that way.

I certainly can't argue that the defense has been strong, but there have been enough playmakers drafted and added UDFA to this defense and certainly enough role players to fill in around drafted that this defense "should" be better. Not every defensive pick is going to be an all pro, but he's picked his share.

I realize guys like Harrell and Worthy were wastes, but hey, how can I rag on him whenI thought Worthy was worthy of that pick too? I remember being out to eat when my draft tracker app told me we got him and my wife asked me why I had such a big smile and I took that as an invitation to tell her all about he draft going on. I don't think she was impressed, turns out I shouldn't have been either.

 

[rmontro]

why do people think he can't draft defensive players?

Just to be clear (and you may not even be responding to me), I never said he couldn't draft defensive players. To be specific, I said "I'm not sure I have confidence in his picks on the defensive side of the ball anyway. Not that he can't make good picks, but enough to turn this around? I'm not sure."

Yes, he's made some good picks. But he's been drafting heavily on the defensive side for years now, and the defense is as bad as ever. That's why I say I'm not filled with confidence that he will draft well enough now to turn this around. Maybe he will, I hope he will (since it appears he will be sticking around until his contract is up), but I'm not going to hold my breath. Or maybe it's not Ted, maybe the problem is Capers. One of them is surely part of the problem.

Some people want to say all the defensive woes are because of injuries. But all teams deal with injuries. If we're waiting for that one magic year when no one gets hurt, we're in trouble. The Patriots just won the Super Bowl with Gronkowski out. I think cornerback was an accident waiting to happen this year because of all the UFDAs. Too little experience there, with Shields as the only real veteran, and he had a history of concussions. His loss should not have been entirely unforeseeable.

 

[Mondio]

They had Gronk out and Bennett in, not a huge drop off in the TE position in terms of talent on the field and the mismatches they can create. Other than that, they were about as healthy as any team has ever been that late in the season.

and yes, all teams deal with injuries, but not all situations are the same. We had a lot of injuries that weren't severe enough for IR, which then created problems when it came to roster spots because the backups then had injuries of their own. So do you just start cutting your young talent you're developing for a has been that nobody else wants and won't be with your beyond a partial season anyway? or trust your staff to get them healthy enough to play.

and I'm not waiting for a magical year with no injuries, but it is no coincidence that the 2 teams at the end were largely intact teams from the halfway point on. I don't care what the final numbers some stat mill rolls out, when you're that deep into a secondary with players moving in and out of the lineup every half for weeks on end, it's not the same as losing one player for 8 weeks and having his replacement fill in. It's just not. We had safeties playing DB positions at times a long with our 2 best pass rushers with a broken hand and a shoulder need surgery, oh, and we lost 2 starting ILB's for a good portion of the time, and they also went out later again with injury after coming back.

yes teams deal with injuries, not many deal with what GB had to do last year in terms of the constant revolving door and how deep they had to go at certain positions on a regular basis, and none were as successful if they did have to deal with it.

anyway, i'm not writing off the young defensive players yet. Just like I wasn't ready to write off Adams after showing what he was capable of and then being constantly injured and looked completely different physically in his 2nd year.

considering we need pass rushers and secondary and probably another DL for rotation to develop and then the offensive side to start developing and step in at the skill positions, i doubt he just fixes it all in the draft either, but I do think he's more than capable of finding defensive players to make us better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

why do people think he can't draft defensive players?

Because the defense has struggled for most of the past six seasons while Thompson has used most early round draft picks on that side of the ball during that period. As long as both TT and Capers stay around it's impossible to know who is mostly to blame for the unit's shortcomings but the 2015 season indicated that the defensive coordinator is capable of fielding an above average defense when given enough talent to not have a glaring weakness.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They had Gronk out and Bennett in, not a huge drop off in the TE position in terms of talent on the field and the mismatches they can create.

If that's true you have to wonder why Thompson wasn't smart enough to trade a fourth round pick to the Bears to acquire Bennett.

I don't care what the final numbers some stat mill rolls out, when you're that deep into a secondary with players moving in and out of the lineup every half for weeks on end, it's not the same as losing one player for 8 weeks and having his replacement fill in. It's just not.

Of course, why bother to rely on facts when you can make up your own supporting a lame excuse.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While I am not going to blame injuries for losing, I am going to point out that injuries can expose a pitfall in the way that TT runs things. When you use the draft and develop method and field such a young team, injuries are probably more likely to expose that inexperience. We saw that at the CB position this past season, at WR last season, ILB for many seasons. While its great to have a roster of 53 young potentially talented guys, you are setting yourself up for a potential large drop in experience and talent in doing so.

All that said, I would prefer a team with a few more veterans and experience and the only way that is going to happen is to pick those guys up along the way through the FA market or trades.

 

[Dantés]

If that's true you have to wonder why Thompson wasn't smart enough to trade a fourth round pick to the Bears to acquire Bennett.



Of course, why bother to rely on facts when you can make up your own supporting a lame excuse.

What facts? I haven't seen anything from FO yet on games lost. That's what I generally find the most reliable.

 

[PikeBadger]

While I am not going to blame injuries for losing, I am going to point out that injuries can expose a pitfall in the way that TT runs things. When you use the draft and develop method and field such a young team, injuries are probably more likely to expose that inexperience. We saw that at the CB position this past season, at WR last season, ILB for many seasons. While its great to have a roster of 53 young potentially talented guys, you are setting yourself up for a potential large drop in experience and talent in doing so.

All that said, I would prefer a team with a few more veterans and experience and the only way that is going to happen is to pick those guys up along the way through the FA market or trades.

I think this may be a year to get 2 or 3 FA's before the draft since I'm beginning to think we are not going to re-sign more than 2-3 of our own guys whose contracts have expired.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think this may be a year to get 2 or 3 FA's before the draft since I'm beginning to think we are not going to re-sign more than 2-3 of our own guys whose contracts have expired.

I feel the same (CB and OLB). But I have my doubts TT will see it that way. Given the current state of both positions, heading into the 2017 season and only addressing those positions through the draft, could be very risky.

 

[PikeBadger]

I feel the same (CB and OLB). But I have my doubts TT will see it that way. Given the current state of both positions, heading into the 2017 season and only addressing those positions through the draft, could be very risky.

I could see him re-signing 3 of our own, grabbiing one in FA before April and then the draft. Maybe picking up 1 or 2 more FA's cheaper after the draft to fill in.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As I alluded to in a post above, I am hoping TT gives some serious thought to sprinkling a few more veterans into the 53 man roster in 2017. Something the Packers roster has been lacking lately is experienced backups and it shows when injuries start adding up.

The Packers were the 3rd youngest team at the beginning of 2016, with only the Rams and Browns having younger teams. I also have a feeling that with injuries during the season and the replacements that the Packers made from their PS, they finished the season even younger than they started (subtracting out the "5 months of aging during the season").

http://www.phillyvoice.com/ranking-nfl-teams-age-after-53-man-cutdowns-2016-edition/

After I posted that I found this article, its a long read, but a good one. The NFL is getting younger and the inexperience of that is showing in the quality of play.

https://theringer.com/the-nfl-has-an-age-problem-7068825845e4#.tijrlqwip

While I like the draft and develop mentality, I think over relying on it with too many young, inexperienced players, coupled with the typical volume of injuries during the course of an NFL season, is creating a situation where the Packers inexperience can be exposed at one or more positions. If your starting QB goes down and all you have are rookies or inexperienced guys as backups, chances are if you don't go out and sign a veteran, you could be in trouble. That philosophy should be used similarly with many of the other positions IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What facts? I haven't seen anything from FO yet on games lost. That's what I generally find the most reliable.

I agree that Football Outsiders' adjusted man games lost is the most reliable source to evaluate injuries. It hasn't been released for last season so far but the Packers had the ninth fewest injuries in 2015 and the third fewest in '14 according to them.

A website tracking injuries during the season as well had the team not as one of the most injured in the league. Unfortunately their data is only accessible for free during the season for some reason.

 

[Dantés]

I agree that Football Outsiders' adjusted man games lost is the most reliable source to evaluate injuries. It hasn't been released for last season so far but the Packers had the ninth fewest injuries in 2015 and the third fewest in '14 according to them.

A website tracking injuries during the season as well had the team not as one of the most injured in the league. Unfortunately their data is only accessible for free during the season for some reason.

We will wait and see.

 

[adambr2]

I am not convinced that we will do anything outside the norm to improve this roster, and therefore we will likely need a lot of luck and an MVP type season from Rodgers to have a shot at the ultimate goal.

41M sounds like we're flush with cap room, but we're really not. If we have intentions of re-signing Lang, Hyde, Cook, Lacy, and Perry, that'll likely chew up 25M of it. By the time we tag an RFA or two and sign our draft picks, we're already getting close to the 5-10M limit that Thompson usually likes to carry over. There might be room to squeeze in a 2nd or 3rd week mid tier free agent or two, but nothing significant.

There's creative ways that Thompson could free up some space, such as approaching guys that are highly overpaid and ripe for cuts or restructures, like Matthews or Cobb. He could convert some of Rodgers' 2017 salary to bonus money to free up some space, a common tactic. But he rarely goes these routes and I doubt he will now.

I certainly hope I'm wrong. This team is desperate for some playmaking defensive upgrades. But this has been the same GM for 12 years now and there's no good reason to think this will be the year he changes his stripes.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

The Packers haven't suffered more injuries than most teams over the last three seasons, therefore repeatedly using them as an excuse for the team not winning a Super Bowl is lame. I don't expect any change within the strength and conditioning staff as it seems the players absolutely love those guys.

No I wasn't using it as an excuse at all but rather calling it out as a situation that our GM and coaches aren't doing anything to fix. Maybe I'm just too old fashioned and too upset over not l0ng enough offseason durability workouts or just upset over things like Lacy's situation constantly being brought up, which while I like a big RB you def can't go coming in here out of shape year in and year out and not expect it to result in some kind of injury or other. I feel like there are steps that can be taken to minimize injuries in a season and regardless of whether or not the players like the current S&C staff, I'm going to blame them if we don't start putting healthier players on the field.

 

[brandon2348]

This is what happens when you have a QB that goes on an epic tear is that some people start to forget just how bad the deficiencies are and then all the sudden they slap you hard in the face in Atlanta this last year. Rodgers covers and makes up for more deficiencies then any QB I have ever seen. I'm talking from talent defficiencies all the way to coaching. If Rodgers isnt the QB then TT and MM and Capers arent even in the picture right now. He has carried all these guys for some time now.

This defense is horrible. The only way they have of stopping anyone is getting a turnover or hoping the other team malfunctions and drops the ball in the redzone then holding them to a FG. No lead is ever safe with these guys and if you let them they will try to make every game intetesting. You can only imagine how much constant pressure this puts on Rodgers and the offense.

I dont care what TT assembled on defense 10 years ago as this is 2017 and it isn't happening anymore. Over the last five years or more his drafting on defense sucks. I dont have time to list all the bad picks but its just a joke. He has obviously lost something along the way. Throw in his stubborness and unwillingness to change along with his inability to innovate and we have what we have which is a mess to say the least.

 

[Bagadeez04]

Based on how this season is going, it would appear that Rodgers is the difference between this team being 5-11 versus 11-5 and in the playoffs. Without him, this roster appears to be severely deficient. If the Packers were to bring in, say, John Dorsey, what's the worst that could happen? They go 10-6 and make the playoffs?

To those who are defending keeping Thompson on as GM , can I ask for your argument as to why not try something new?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Based on how this season is going, it would appear that Rodgers is the difference between this team being 5-11 versus 11-5 and in the playoffs. Without him, this roster appears to be severely deficient. If the Packers were to bring in, say, John Dorsey, what's the worst that could happen? They go 10-6 and make the playoffs?

To those who are defending keeping Thompson on as GM , can I ask for your argument as to why not try something new?

It's mind-boggling to suggest Thompson has done a great job of assembling overall talent on the Packers roster considering the team is only 3-10-1 with #12 either not starting or finishing a game because of injury.

Especially as the Vikings prove it's possible to win with their third string quarterback while even allocating more cap space to the position than the Packers do.

 

[txj]

Too many people have become too comfortable for far too long. So we keep doing the same things, over and over again...

 

[JLW_51]

I wrote up a piece on Thompson and free agency. As I go over, it would be complete insanity to turn his back on Free Agency now after the Bennett experiment failed. http://lastwordonprofootball.com/20...t-shun-free-agency-failure-martellus-bennett/

 

[JLW_51]

Based on how this season is going, it would appear that Rodgers is the difference between this team being 5-11 versus 11-5 and in the playoffs. Without him, this roster appears to be severely deficient. If the Packers were to bring in, say, John Dorsey, what's the worst that could happen? They go 10-6 and make the playoffs?

To those who are defending keeping Thompson on as GM , can I ask for your argument as to why not try something new?

Unless they are just happy with making the playoffs and not winning Super Bowls, why not try something different. Year in and year out, this team doesn't adjust, keep the course, a course that means, playoffs and no SBs. Enough already.

 

[proudsoftballdad]

never mind not posting when you get personally attacked

 

[OldSchool101]

I actually never thought we would flirt with the idea of having just 2 QB's on the active roster after the last collarbone incident. If you would've told me at the end of our 8-7-1 season that we would revert to just 2 (or even flirt with one through waivers on the PS) I wouldn't have taken that bet. What keeps coming back through my mind is the philosophy of Ron Wolf, in that you want to draft a QB in more years than not, even when your primary QB is not near retirement. There is a reason for this and bolstering our QB depth is a primary component.
The QB position depth is vital to the overall success of a teams performance and this is a major mistake on the GM side of the equation. I guess that's just another chalk mark in the "against" column in the "For or Against" reasons to keep or let TT go.