Team Changes for Next Season

[OldSchool101]

We need to land 3 starter level players in this draft. Plus another in FA.

DT, OC, LB, CB

Not necessarily in that order. Someone who can immediately challenge Valentine and can come in and actually tackle. Yes you heard me correctly. Someone who can play CB but has the wherewithal to forego an INT for personal gain on a pass on 4th Down! backed up to our own goal line no less! Someone who doesn’t celebrate a -27 yard INT and you can see makes “heads up” TFL regularly. Someone who just knocks a long pass incomplete in 4th down scenarios because he understands football.

 

[tynimiller]

It’s ok to draft Lukas types in some seasons. However we all know the Packers rarely allow Rookies to play significant starter snaps. The only ones I can think of are ? Evan Williams? Edgerrin Cooper?

To be fair this last year draft was arguably the first one in Gute's recent memory that he didn't draft a guy that was a solid contributor IMO...Golden saw a solid amount of snaps and I could argue some would say was a contributor but he'd be it.

Past drafts:

2024 - Coop/Bull/Williams all so significant playing time immediately along with Hopper out the gate being one of our main ST guys
2023 - Reed/Musgrave/Kraft/Brooks/Valentine/Wicks all saw significant snaps on offense or defense - talking 50% or so range and higher or for a DL significant in case of Brooks...Wooden and Wicks and LVN all saw what I call significant but some would say touch under. This 2023 class honestly might have a rookie snap record for us...such a great class as far as NFL roster worthy guys throughout with a few special ones, headlined by Kraft and Reed and it seems LVN shaping out finally too...and that leaves other NFL roster worthy dudes to various degrees
2022 - Quay/Wyatt/Watson/Doubs/Tom/Enagbare all signficant time and/or starters.

 

[OldSchool101]

To be fair this last year draft was arguably the first one in Gute's recent memory that he didn't draft a guy that was a solid contributor IMO...Golden saw a solid amount of snaps and I could argue some would say was a contributor but he'd be it.

Past drafts:

2024 - Coop/Bull/Williams all so significant playing time immediately along with Hopper out the gate being one of our main ST guys
2023 - Reed/Musgrave/Kraft/Brooks/Valentine/Wicks all saw significant snaps on offense or defense - talking 50% or so range and higher or for a DL significant in case of Brooks...Wooden and Wicks and LVN all saw what I call significant but some would say touch under. This 2023 class honestly might have a rookie snap record for us...such a great class as far as NFL roster worthy guys throughout with a few special ones, headlined by Kraft and Reed and it seems LVN shaping out finally too...and that leaves other NFL roster worthy dudes to various degrees
2022 - Quay/Wyatt/Watson/Doubs/Tom/Enagbare all signficant time and/or starters.

What’s up @tynimiller hope all is well. overall I agree. Maybe several there I’d disagree were where I’m referring at “Starter types” or within arms reach. I like the Wicks example he played more than I realized.

Part of this is imo Brian just missed a little on his Day1-2 selections more recently. Between injury and slow to get players ramped we’ve had semi poor production where you need it. Day1-2 in a Win Now needs to be a higher hit rate. Not all his fault because Brian doesn’t prevent ACL injuries etc. Brian does however possess the ability to grab a player that not Lukas or Musgrave that’s “ceiling” over “”high floor”. Brian also missed in FA, which couldn’t have been worse timing.



Listen. I think we’re in better shape than most think. I think Policy recognizes that. I don’t want to solely blame injuries. Yet let’s face it if just Kraft were standing last year ? We would’ve beat Denver and they were a 10-0 Win Streak 1 Seed. We just went into a free fall once Wyatt went down. No true depth at DL except a situational pass rusher Karl and good Run stuffer Wooden. Operating without Kenny and Wyatt though? Our pair of Georgia guys were waaaay in over their collective big heads. lol.

We are NOT far away. I’m in agreement with Tauscher and Bulaga though. Go watch several short episodes on Wilde. They speak to the current state of OL and it’s shaky at best. Yet we have likely a Top 5 QB when he’s kept clean. Keep him clean!! Go watch how Jordan just tore up Chicago. by Halftime Soldier Field was like a Morgue at Midnight. That should’ve 95% been a Packer Win. WITHOUT Kenny or Micah or Kraft or Tom or Parsons.

IF we simply had 1-2 upgrades on OL that’s a Pack Win. We couldn’t Run the ball when we needed to run the ball. That’s where a Legit playoff team makes their opponent bleed a slow death.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The positions that can get more immediate results imo are Stack LB..off ball types. I’m not talking pure rushers at OLB, I’m talking read and react and the “blow up a play” types. We’ve had good success in GB there.

Also RB. As much as I like Lloyd let’s face it his injury status is baffling level. Just rare a guy stacks injury after injury. It’s time to count him as nothing more than a bonus RB. Heck you need that potential RB3-4 to supply when a RB injures. Here though let’s go draft a true RB that can offer some excitement and immediate production.

My idea would be RD5 J’Mari Taylor. He didn’t pass 1,000 until his 2024 season in the FCS level, but he broke it and transferred to The Virginia Cavaliers (Wicks territory) and posted 1000+ at the ACC level. He transitioned seamlessly and his final 2 seasons he posted over 2,200+ yards and 29 rushing TD’s. He’s about as close to an Aaron Jones type as you get. A slight 5’10” X 205lb RB with surprising power and somehow breaks tackles routinely. He’s a poor mans Jones with 4.4 speed though, as displayed in his recent 80 yard TD scamper. He’s got hands too, he’s a dual threat in the mold of Lloyd. Maybe not quite Tyrone Tracy Jr, but I was high on him in 2024 and he was an absolute steal in RD5. Tyrone similarly went under radar and had the ??? after converting positions. Yet an athlete is an athlete. Just look at the production from drafted RD4-5 on RB’s it’s a huge value area with immediate upside.

Taylor sounds interesting. IMO 205 lbs is just way too light to avoid injuries in the NFL. Jones Jr had more than his share of injuries. The trend is toward faster and bigger backs - guys like Gibbs and Walker III. And I would default to size over speed.

His height isn't a concern and maybe he could bulk up to 225 lbs. That makes him a developmental pick, and the gaps to close this offseason are CB, DT, and OL, roughly in that order. RB is a luxury pick the Packers can't afford this year. Their SB window is now, and so personnel decisions need to be consistent with that. The lack of a first round pick this year and next doesn't help the situation.

Now if an interesting RB is available as an UDFA or on the waiver wire it would be worth a shot. RB will certainly be a big need esp as Jacobs gets older.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To be fair this last year draft was arguably the first one in Gute's recent memory that he didn't draft a guy that was a solid contributor IMO...Golden saw a solid amount of snaps and I could argue some would say was a contributor but he'd be it.

Past drafts:

2024 - Coop/Bull/Williams all so significant playing time immediately along with Hopper out the gate being one of our main ST guys
2023 - Reed/Musgrave/Kraft/Brooks/Valentine/Wicks all saw significant snaps on offense or defense - talking 50% or so range and higher or for a DL significant in case of Brooks...Wooden and Wicks and LVN all saw what I call significant but some would say touch under. This 2023 class honestly might have a rookie snap record for us...such a great class as far as NFL roster worthy guys throughout with a few special ones, headlined by Kraft and Reed and it seems LVN shaping out finally too...and that leaves other NFL roster worthy dudes to various degrees
2022 - Quay/Wyatt/Watson/Doubs/Tom/Enagbare all signficant time and/or starters.

Thanks for the summary. 2022 through 2024 were very good drafts for GB.

 

[Heyjoe4]

What’s up @tynimiller hope all is well. overall I agree. Maybe several there I’d disagree were where I’m referring at “Starter types” or within arms reach. I like the Wicks example he played more than I realized.

Part of this is imo Brian just missed a little on his Day1-2 selections more recently. Between injury and slow yo get players ramped we’ve has semi poor production where you need it. Day1-2 in a Win Now needs to be a higher hit rate. Not all his fault because Brian doesn’t prevent ACL injuries etc.



Listen. I think we’re in better shape than most think. I think Policy recognizes that. I don’t want to solely blame injuries. Yet let’s face it if just Kraft were standing last year ? We would’ve beat Denver and they were a 10-0 Win Streak 1 Seed. We just went into a free fall once Wyatt went down. No true depth at DL except a situational pass rusher Karl and good Run stuffer Wooden. Operating without Kenny and Wyatt though? Our pair of Georgia guys were waaaay in over their collective big heads. lol.

We are NOT far away. I’m in agreement with Tauscher and Bulaga though. Go watch several short episodes on Wilde. They speak to the current state of OL and it’s shaky at best. Yet we have likely a Top 5 QB when he’s kept clean. Keep him clean!! Go watch how Jordan just tore up Chicago. by Halftime Soldier Field was like a Morgue at Midnight. That should’ve 95% been a Packer Win. WITHOUT Kenny or Micah or Kraft or Tom or Parsons.

IF we simply had 1-2 upgrades on OL that’s a Pack Win. We couldn’t Run the ball when we needed to run the ball. That’s where a Legit playoff team makes their opponent bleed a slow death.

I agree OS that the talent currently on the roster is solid - with the caveat "when healthy" - and I'm just stating the obvious.

One reason the SB was the hags v Pats is that both teams are talented, and avoided huge injuries.

It sounds like Kraft will be back early and the same with Parsons. Along with Gluten's offseason moves, there's plenty of optimism heading into next season. Also agree that a healthy Kraft would have taken the team further.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree OS that the talent currently on the roster is solid - with the caveat "when healthy" - and I'm just stating the obvious.

One reason the SB was the hags v Pats is that both teams are talented, and avoided huge injuries.

It sounds like Kraft will be back early and the same with Parsons. Along with Gluten's offseason moves, there's plenty of optimism heading into next season. Also agree that a healthy Kraft would have taken the team further.

I can see a world where Kraft, Parsons, Wyatt are all 3 together again and ramped up middle of October. I think 1 or 2 will be back in September, but I recognize we should play it safe and ramp them gradual.

In the meantime. We have a potential issue. Tom now recently underwent surgery (at least that’s the rumor or approximate reporting). That means he’ll likely miss most of Training Camp. Tom has now had several somewhat concerning injuries more recently. He fight a Core injury trying to avoid Falling on #10. Now he just had a relatively serious knee surgery. Not good. Especially not good when our LT is likely gone in FA and our Center is a FA himself counting $26mil on our cap. It’s inconceivable how we could restructure that it’s 95% Elgton is no more a Packer. LT, OC, RG, RT are all legitimate concerns. Then we have Banks holding the fort down. No offense to Banks, but Not exactly my idea of a Championship Football trench formation!

Now I’m NOT implying we’re completely lost. I do think Morgan will develop into a starting LT, but notice I said “develop”. The guy has played essentially everywhere EXCEPT Blindside. He’s a great athlete but he’s also very untested at LT in the Pro circuit. We do have Belton to try to Win at RG, imo he’ll be an average starter with excel in Run Block. He’s lateral challenged but that’s masked at Guard. The easiest fix is to resign Sean for Safety Concerns. He can likely play either Guard or Center if he’s reasonable.

Tom is the definition of a versatile athlete. I think he could literally convert to any position on that OL, it’s more about health concerns. Connie Lee looks like Tom 2.0. Many similarities. I wouldn’t at all be shocked to see GB spend 1 draft selection on OL in Day2, even considering potential overlap and putting to pasture Monk or Kinnard etc. I just think I’d error on 1 draft upgrade on OL. IF Connor Lew or Jake Slaughter crosses our draft crosshairs I wouldn’t hesitate. Keeping Love clean needs to be priority numero uno.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I can see a world where Kraft, Parsons, Wyatt are all 3 together again and ramped up middle of October. I think 1 or 2 will be back in September, but I recognize we should play it safe and ramp them gradual.

In the meantime. We have a potential issue. Tom now recently underwent surgery (at least that’s the rumor or approximate reporting). That means he’ll likely miss most of Training Camp. Tom has now had several somewhat concerning injuries more recently. He fight a Core injury trying to avoid Falling on #10. Now he just had a relatively serious knee surgery. Not good. Especially not good when our LT is likely gone in FA and our Center is a FA himself counting $26mil on our cap. It’s inconceivable how we could restructure that it’s 95% Elgton is no more a Packer. LT, OC, RG, RT are all legitimate concerns. Then we have Banks holding the fort down. No offense to Banks, but Not exactly my idea of a Championship Football trench formation!

Now I’m NOT implying we’re completely lost. I do think Morgan will develop into a starting LT, but notice I said “develop”. The guy has played essentially everywhere EXCEPT Blindside. He’s a great athlete but he’s also very untested at LT in the Pro circuit. We do have Belton to try to Win at RG, imo he’ll be an average starter with excel in Run Block. He’s lateral challenged but that’s masked at Guard. The easiest fix is to resign Sean for Safety Concerns. He can likely play either Guard or Center if he’s reasonable.

Tom is the definition of a versatile athlete. I think he could literally convert to any position on that OL, it’s more about health concerns. I wouldn’t at all be shocked to see GB spend a draft selection on OL in Day2. Worst thing that happens he’s a legit OL6 swing type and we send Monk onto PS at some risk of losing him. I just think I’d error on 1 draft upgrade on OL. IF Connor Lew or Jake Slaughter crosses our draft crosshairs I wouldn’t hesitate. Keeping Love clean needs to be priority numero uno.

I haven't seen anything suggesting that Tom's surgery to repair a partially torn patellar tendon will require him to miss TC. I suppose that's possible, just haven't seen that mentioned. The usual timeline is 6 to 9 months. I don't know when he had the surgery.

The OL is far from a disaster. Starters are likely to be Morgan at LT, Belton at RG, Tom at RT. That leaves LG and C. Banks my be the guy at LG but he has to improve or be cut to save some cap. C will either be Rhyan, or preferabley someone from the draft, an UDFA, waiver wire or a trade.

Whatever is decided at C, it's important to establish someone for that position. I'm ok if that's Rhyan, if he can do the job every week.

GB usually doesn't have these problems on the OL. As for Morgan, I expect him to be solid at LT from day one. With Walker gone, he'll finally get to play his best position. He's shown he's ready for the NFL, all while playing at positions where he isn't particularly strong.

 

[tynimiller]

Doubt the $4M to cut Banks and eat $20M will be the decision. Restructure maybe...post June 1 possibly...but I just think that is a contract and a guy you give two years before cutting.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Doubt the $4M to cut Banks and eat $20M will be the decision. Restructure maybe...post June 1 possibly...but I just think that is a contract and a guy you give two years before cutting.

Yep, straight out cutting him would be stupid at this point. Now they're just gonna have to suck it up and pay the piper for 2026. Heck, even the cap hit cutting him in 2027 isn't very good. This was a terrible contract.

 

[CarryTheG14]

https://x.com/mattschneidman/status/2023822742022484442?s=20

Here's a guy I want to have more snaps. I was real impressed with Sorrell.

 

[tynimiller]

Yep, straight out cutting him would be stupid at this point. Now they're just gonna have to suck it up and pay the piper for 2026. Heck, even the cap hit cutting him in 2027 isn't very good. This was a terrible contract.

Disagree. When I saw the structure I clearly saw it was a solid 2 year structured contract with the third only happening if he was proving to be one of the best along our OL and if not clear sizable savings parting ways.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

Disagree. When I saw the structure I clearly saw it was a solid 2 year structured contract with the third only happening if he was proving to be one of the best along our OL and if not clear sizable savings parting ways.

No, I think we're actually agreeing. They're stuck with him for 2026.

 

[tynimiller]

No, I think we're actually agreeing. They're stuck with him for 2026.

You stated it was a horrible contract - that's what I disagreed with.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

You stated it was a horrible contract - that's what I disagreed with.

Ah, then yes, I guess we disagree with that. It is a horrible contract.

 

[tynimiller]

Ah, then yes, I guess we disagree with that. It is a horrible contract.

In what capacity? In this day and age signing bigger contracts, to have it a very easy and cost effective two year contract really is not common place. I was drastically against the figure when news broke, but once I saw the structure and saw it really essentially is a two year I was pleased.

 

[El Guapo]

I bet that Banks and his agent tried negotiating for a longer deal with more guarantees.

 

[mradtke66]

I don't agree with you. A back up 2 down linebacker? What are you talking about? I guess that's a projection? I'm sick of drafting development players?

Every player is a projection. Every player is a development player.

I guess I'd like to see that taken out of the formula. There are players throughout the draft that contribute. Take a chance on some of those. Not sure where you were going with Hawk. #5 in the whole damn draft.

Hawk was "a football player." He was massively over-drafted. Sure, he contributed, but he wasn't an impact player. Certainly not who you're hoping for with the 5th overall pick. This is the risk with taking a player that looks solid in college--they're done growing, they aren't going to get any better. Picking those players nets you the same spot as swinging for game changing potential and missing. The special players get you over the hump.

The premise I operate from is that you're making a false dichotomy and you can fail either way.

 

[gopkrs]

In what capacity? In this day and age signing bigger contracts, to have it a very easy and cost effective two year contract really is not common place. I was drastically against the figure when news broke, but once I saw the structure and saw it really essentially is a two year I was pleased.

I remember when we signed Banks someone made a comment that he watched a lot of SF and Banks just wasn't very good. Man. I hope Gute watches a lot more than just highlight reels. Because we cannot afford those giant errors. And I'm hoping to upgrade enough so that Banks comes off the bench. We may need to keep him. Doesn't mean we need to play him.

 

[OldSchool101]

I haven't seen anything suggesting that Tom's surgery to repair a partially torn patellar tendon will require him to miss TC

I’m just going off reports that an injection failed around Jan 16th. So obviously the surgery couldn’t have happened until after that timeframe. Now I don’t know the exact timetable but some of our retired Packer OL were talking this isn’t minor either. Training Camp typically starts late July.
So I think they are correct on him rehabbing during training camp. I think it would be overly optimistic to assume he’d be practicing right at 6 months.

 

[tynimiller]

Every player is a projection. Every player is a development player.



Hawk was "a football player." He was massively over-drafted. Sure, he contributed, but he wasn't an impact player. Certainly not who you're hoping for with the 5th overall pick. This is the risk with taking a player that looks solid in college--they're done growing, they aren't going to get any better. Picking those players nets you the same spot as swinging for game changing potential and missing. The special players get you over the hump.

The premise I operate from is that you're making a false dichotomy and you can fail either way.

Hang on....define "impact player" in your definition or opinion.

Fully concede he wasn't the player you'd hope with the pick he was but it BAFFLES my mind how dismissive folks are ofHawk.

Hawk started for a VERY good team 9 years and then started in a tenth year for another team. He was the third highest vote getter for defensive rookie of the year, averaged over 2 sacks a year, 6+ TFLs a year, 100+ tackles a year, nearly 4 PDs a year....

If he was say a late round first or early second round pick there are folks that would claim he might be one of the best draft picks of our history that aren't named Rodgers or Davante...over the last three decades.

 

[SudsMcBucky]

In what capacity? In this day and age signing bigger contracts, to have it a very easy and cost effective two year contract really is not common place. I was drastically against the figure when news broke, but once I saw the structure and saw it really essentially is a two year I was pleased.

I wasn't a fan of that signing on day 1. This locked us in for 2 years min and the 3rd year cut is still pricey on the cap hit.

 

[tynimiller]

I wasn't a fan of that signing on day 1. This locked us in for 2 years min and the 3rd year cut is still pricey on the cap hit.

The third year cut we will just disagree on, if you sign a guy that you predict is going to be your day 1 starter with you in year one on FA...to have such an awesome team out after two and a savings even at just one year is incredible construction of a contract.

 

[gopkrs]

I wasn't a fan of that signing on day 1. This locked us in for 2 years min and the 3rd year cut is still pricey on the cap hit.

It all depended on if he was a quality player

 

[tynimiller]

It all depended on if he was a quality player

You have to separate the two IMO at least:

1 - is it a team friendly or "good" contract for a guy that you are planning on starting - that aspect if just discussing the contract it was awesome.
2 - is the discussion of grading the signing and if you got what you hoped; which clearly at best I'd grade the signing a D+ to C- at best...low level but still consistent starter.