Team Changes for Next Season

[mradtke66]

The last several years Mathews could not beat 1 on 1 from the edge.

That's a bit debatable, but even if true, we got our picks worth out of him. He played his rookie deal 2009-2013, signed a 5 year extension 2013-2018 which ultimately expired.

The man got old, but played out his contract, he wasn't cut. No shame in losing a step as he got older. We in turn did the right thing by not re-signing him.

 

[gopkrs]

What do we do if Jordan doesn't do well at L tackle? If Tom is good to go he could move there with Belton moving to R Tackle. I'm going to just hope he is fine. And I hope we retain the other back up tackle that we sometimes used as a 6th lineman. Good to have him on the bench imho.

 

[OldSchool101]

He (Sean) is not going to play for typical “backup” $$$. He’s an average starting Guard with favorable C experience on a playoff caliber Offense. Unless I’m confusing your version of Backup $$? Your top 16 Guards are making over $12Mil+ annual

For me Rhyan is the type of player we want as a backup. Is there back up OL type money? Kind of like back up QB money. Because we should imho be thinking about that instead of just drafting linemen late to fill that very important role

 

[tynimiller]

For me Rhyan is the type of player we want as a backup. Is there back up OL type money? Kind of like back up QB money. Because we should imho be thinking about that instead of just drafting linemen late to fill that very important role.

Of course there is and Green Bay has done it on the rare occasion when we don't have a clear #1 or a clear #2 back up at multiple spots. However, teams are poorly managed that fill up their depth along the OL with a bunch of non-rookie type contracts. The fiscal allocation of funds that would eat up would be immense. Rhyan however is a great example of you're signing him to likely enter the TC and season as your center should we choose to resign him BUT know he might be battling a guy drafted AND his other bonus is he is a capable guard in reserve as well. Guys like him that might be a starter or might be solid depth piece can be had for that $4M-$7M range

 

[gopkrs]

That's a bit debatable, but even if true, we got our picks worth out of him. He played his rookie deal 2009-2013, signed a 5 year extension 2013-2018 which ultimately expired.

The man got old, but played out his contract, he wasn't cut. No shame in losing a step as he got older. We in turn did the right thing by not re-signing him.

Not at all debateable. He could not get past a L tackle for a long time. And it weakened the defense considerably. It was why I was happy to see him move to playing over center. He could still cause some disruption there. Obviously he was a great player for us. I was not at all referring to whether or not he was a good draft pick. He was an awesome pick. So much better than Hawk that it can't even be compared imho.

 

[gopkrs]

I feel like for a long time this board gives our O line much more credit than it deserves. And individual linemen also.

 

[tynimiller]

What do we do if Jordan doesn't do well at L tackle? If Tom is good to go he could move there with Belton moving to R Tackle. I'm going to just hope he is fine. And I hope we retain the other back up tackle that we sometimes used as a 6th lineman. Good to have him on the bench imho.

We essentailly have Jordan, also Belton was a LT in college, Tom has proven capable if you have a guy that is best at RT...Kinnard has tackle starting experience as well if we tender him which I assume we do as he is a RFA

We also have John Williams a 2025 draftee who had to have surgery last year back, he saw over 1800 snaps at LT for the Bearcats
Donovan Jennings despite being a UDFA has shown immense promise and held a spot and is kinda a swing type guy who has focused on guard.

This isn't a defense of or grade thoughts just fleshing out the answer of what do we have if Jordan doesn't do well.

There is also likely minimum one tackle prospect drafted this year as we typically do that - Rasheed was a 7th, Tom a 4th, Van Lanen 6th, Runyan a 6th...just guys that were Day3 guys that played significant snaps for us or are also now elsewhere too. So a chance this year's draft very well may have the answer or that depth piece that becomes one (think Yosh Nijman)

 

[mradtke66]

Not at all debateable. He could not get past a L tackle for a long time. And it weakened the defense considerably. It was why I was happy to see him move to playing over center. He could still cause some disruption there.

I think you're cross conflating. He signed his extension in 2013. In 2012, he had 13 sacks in 12 games. In 2013, he had 7.5 in 11 games. In 2014, he had 11 sacks in 16, but spent the season at ILB after the bye week. In 2015, he was "exclusively" an ILB, though they moved him around in dime situations.

His last year with us, 2018, was a legitimate down year. 16 games, only 3.5 sacks, and we let the contract expire.

So yes, I heartily dispute your "get past a L tackle for a long time" statement. Particularly since 2016 and 2017, Peppers was here. I think, but I'm not sure, Peppers played against more LTs...but Pro Football Reference has them both listed as LEFT OLB, so I cannot confirm that at this time.

 

[OldSchool101]

We essentailly have Jordan, also Belton was a LT in college, Tom has proven capable if you have a guy that is best at RT...Kinnard has tackle starting experience as well if we tender him which I assume we do as he is a RFA

We also have John Williams a 2025 draftee who had to have surgery last year back, he saw over 1800 snaps at LT for the Bearcats
Donovan Jennings despite being a UDFA has shown immense promise and held a spot and is kinda a swing type guy who has focused on guard.

This isn't a defense of or grade thoughts just fleshing out the answer of what do we have if Jordan doesn't do well.

There is also likely minimum one tackle prospect drafted this year as we typically do that - Rasheed was a 7th, Tom a 4th, Van Lanen 6th, Runyan a 6th...just guys that were Day3 guys that played significant snaps for us or are also now elsewhere too. So a chance this year's draft very well may have the answer or that depth piece that becomes one (think Yosh Nijman)

Yes.

Travis Glover is another option. In college he had 35 Starts at LT,
18 Starts at RT.
Freshman All-American at LT
Finished out at LT as a 1st Team Sun-Belt Conference during his 5th Year Senior season.

2024, 6th Rounder

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

CB that can actually cover and tackle, OL (all) that can block both runs and passes and DL/LB that can rush the passer, fill holes and stop the opponents run game and put pressure on passer

 

[mradtke66]

CB that can actually cover and tackle, OL (all) that can block both runs and passes and DL/LB that can rush the passer, fill holes and stop the opponents run game and put pressure on passer

And how about a pony? A pony in a gold plated trailer with a lamborghini?

If we're asking for literally everything, might as well ask for everything.

 

[milani]

The last several years Mathews could not beat 1 on 1 from the edge.

Capers sent Matthews in with too many 3 man rushes. Totally stupid unless you have a 2 or 3 score lead in the last minute and the other team has to go 80 yards. Do that with Parsons and they triple team him.

 

[milani]

That's a bit debatable, but even if true, we got our picks worth out of him. He played his rookie deal 2009-2013, signed a 5 year extension 2013-2018 which ultimately expired.

The man got old, but played out his contract, he wasn't cut. No shame in losing a step as he got older. We in turn did the right thing by not re-signing him.

Agreed. And Capers could have used him much better than he did.

 

[gopkrs]

Capers sent Matthews in with too many 3 man rushes. Totally stupid unless you have a 2 or 3 score lead in the last minute and the other team has to go 80 yards. Do that with Parsons and they triple team him.

He loved the 3 man rush which was why I didn't love him. But still it only took one man to stop Mathews in iater years which made the 3 man rush even more pathetic.

 

[mradtke66]

He (Sean) is not going to play for typical “backup” $$$. He’s an average starting Guard with favorable C experience on a playoff caliber Offense. Unless I’m confusing your version of Backup $$? Your top 16 Guards are making over $12Mil+ annual

Pay him center money, problem solved. They’re cheaper.

EDIT: to be clear, only the top 7 centers in the league make over 10m per year.

Compared to the top 11 left guards are over 10m and 12 right guards.

No idea exactly what he’s worth, but spit balling, offer him 7m per year to be the starting center. If he ends up a backup guard, you probably got him for a deal.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He finished out 2014, post-bye week, at ILB next to Hawk. And then more or less a whole season in 2015, but he slide back outside in Dime. He wasn't good, but everyone else was so bad ( I think he replaced Brad Jones, with a bad leg?) that him flying around with his hair on fire was an improvement.

He (Matthews) then had back to back weeks with 0 tackles in 2015. That should be impossible at ILB.

Zero tackles for two games at ILB? Those guys make well over 100 tackles, maybe 150, each season ILBs usually take home the most tackles prize each season. This stat is unreal and I never would have guessed it possible.

Overall, by the time they moved CMIII to ILB his best days were behind him. Regardless, he played a vital role in the SB win and will always be a fan favorite.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Arguably out of all of our free agents (assuming Jenkins is released) Rhyan is subtly one of the biggest ones...he is NOT a great center, but is capable and knows the system and has experience with Love...also capable guard. The security of him being retained honestly might make the most sense out of all of our UFAs.

He is also a perfect example of what I've always said Gute does prior to the draft...he likes to not have himself backed into a corner HAVING to pick a position over the prospect. Even if it is low tier FA signings in a spot that otherwise might be one depleted either in number or skill level too much to ignore...he's done it consistently over the years.

Yeah one way or another I think Gluten will find a long-term C this offseason. It might be Rhyan, but that just doesn't feel right to me. Fortunately, he has a number of ways to address C. Bottom line for me - it's time Love had a dependable, long-term C. The QB/C relationship is too big to just put anyone in the position.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Pay him center money, problem solved. They’re cheaper.

EDIT: to be clear, only the top 7 centers in the league make over 10m per year.

Compared to the top 11 left guards are over 10m and 12 right guards.

No idea exactly what he’s worth, but spit balling, offer him 7m per year to be the starting center. If he ends up a backup guard, you probably got him for a deal.

Interesting stats on C compensation. I knew it was the lowest on the OL, but only 7 Cs in the NFL over $10 mil/AAV is still surprising.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I said OTHER than Rodgers and Davante LOL - easy there with the claim I said same Saying he would be considered one of also doesn't mean is literaly the 3rd if I were to make a list.

Well re-read your post.

"If he was say a late round first or early second round pick there are folks that would claim he might be one of the best draft picks of our history that aren't named Rodgers or Davante...over the last three decades."

The wording is confusing and that makes it subject to different interpretations. But thanks for clarifying. Bottom line for me is that Hawk was a v good ILB who for some reason got a bad rap from fans.

 

[tynimiller]

Well re-read your post.

"If he was say a late round first or early second round pick there are folks that would claim he might be one of the best draft picks of our history that aren't named Rodgers or Davante...over the last three decades."

The wording is confusing and that makes it subject to different interpretations. But thanks for clarifying. Bottom line for me is that Hawk was a v good ILB who for some reason got a bad rap from fans.

"One of" doesn't isolate him down as the third greatest, at least I've never taken that as meaning that - noted though, and will try to not use that verbage as I do follow the mindset if one misunderstood you and said something, there is always others that also misunderstood and didnt' say a word.

 

[gopkrs]

Zero tackles for two games at ILB? Those guys make well over 100 tackles, maybe 150, each season ILBs usually take home the most tackles prize each season. This stat is unreal and I never would have guessed it possible.

Overall, by the time they moved CMIII to ILB his best days were behind him. Regardless, he played a vital role in the SB win and will always be a fan favorite.

I guess you are talking CM3 with 0 tackles. But he did not play middle linebacker. They put him on the D line in the middle and iet him move around the center. Looking to rush.

 

[mradtke66]

Overall, by the time they moved CMIII to ILB his best days were behind him.

I still disagree with that statement. He had 11 sacks the year we moved him halfway (ish) through the season. He got moved there because Hawk was our best ILB (and getting old and slow himself) and everyone else was terrible. 6.5 sacks the next year as a primary ILB, 3rd down edge rusher.

Was he past his peak, sure. 2016, he moved back to OLB full time, but missed time due to injury, only starting 9/playing 12 games. Still logged 5 sacks in limited time.

 

[tynimiller]

Sacks are not the soul God-stat of defensive edge players. CMIII's best days were absolutely behind him at that stage - that doesn't mean he was bad.

 

[mradtke66]

I guess you are talking CM3 with 0 tackles. But he did not play middle linebacker. They put him on the D line in the middle and iet him move around the center. Looking to rush.

*Sigh.*. No.

In 2014, during the bye week, they moved CM3 to ILB full time because Hawk was starting to slip and every other ILB we had was terrible. Awful. I think Brad Jones was taking a majority of the snaps next to Hawk, but obviously, its been 12 years now. CM3 wasn't great there, but he got by with speed, intensity, and above average football smarts.

In 2015, he began the season as a full time ILB. He wrapped up the season with those 2 back to back weeks w/ 0 tackles while playing ILB, finally proving how out position he really was. He was moved back to OLB for the 2016 season.

 

[gopkrs]

I still disagree with that statement. He had 11 sacks the year we moved him halfway (ish) through the season. He got moved there because Hawk was our best ILB (and getting old and slow himself) and everyone else was terrible. 6.5 sacks the next year as a primary ILB, 3rd down edge rusher.

Was he past his peak, sure. 2016, he moved back to OLB full time, but missed time due to injury, only starting 9/playing 12 games. Still logged 5 sacks in limited time.

He got sacks against bad L tackles but could not beat a decent one