Team Changes for Next Season

[tynimiller]

I don't think he whiffs much, more that he's a hot-head that can get out of control. To me, that's easier to coach out.

Of course, most defenses could use at least of little of that un-hinged mindset. He's just gotta be smarter when he does it.

Nah I ain't even talking about after the whistle stuff...which he is a middle schooler for sure.

 

[Magooch]

I would agree that Valentine is more consistent but IMO he's a much more low ceiling player too. Nixon on the other hand is more boom or bust.
Nixon's "floor" is lower than Valentine, when he gets cooked it's BAD, but when he is locked in and playing well he is FAR better than Valentine too IMO

On the whole over the course of the season, again I'd agree that Valentine is a more consistent/steady player but taking into account the highs and lows I think Nixon ends up having a better "net contribution" I guess.

 

[DoURant]

A new addition to the front office personnel

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[OldSchool101]

How someone can think Valentine in any way is measurably worse than Nixon is mindboggling to me. Do not take that wrong, you led with you didn't watch all the games, and to be fair most people don't isolate watch while watching or go back and watch All22.

Valentine is more consistent, Nixon is thinking make a big play way too often...both need to be better to be a guy I want to have been our #1...perfect world one of them is #3 and other #4 but I'll settle for battling for #2

Good stuff.
I see our guys as that solid CB2 to a very good CB3 ranked perimeter options. That’s nothing hateful, but it’s not wise expecting them to be true difference makers (not suggesting you said that just making a remark)

IMO you’d like to ideally have 1 boundary CB in solid footing, Top 20 contention. It would be preferred to have a Top 10 CB (calling JA prime) but they don’t grow on trees either. I also think GB is set in the Slot.

This 2026 draft is what I’d call above average at the CB position. It’s got plenty of Day 1 types too and that infers it’s not going to be short supply mixed high demand starting from our first pick. The Packers really need a pair of CB’s imo. I say that because BOTH our starters are in contract years + we already need better depth.

My plan would be to draft 1 CB from RD2-5. I have the need in RD3-4 area but that could change in FA. If we go the FA route then I’d drop the need at CB to RD5-7

 

[OldSchool101]

I wonder if Babich could help to lure Daquon Jones to Green Bay. He’s a little older (31.5yrs) but he’s still been a steady and constant presence. 6’4” X 320lb. He’s had a Sack in at least 8 of his last 9 seasons. He’s had multiple Sacks in his last 4 seasons, including an INT last year. PFF 10th ranked DL at his position in 2025. Not sure what it would take exactly $$ but likely realistically $6Mil- $8mil annual on a 2yr deal. 2X $13mil—14Mil type offer.

https://atozsports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills-news/daquan-jones-trashes-organization-deleting-social-media-putting-into-question-whether-hell-be-back/

I’d be open to someone like him coming in so we don’t feel pressured drafting a DT too soon. We could pair that with an earlier Day3 RD4-5 type player. Then keeping the better of Stack or Brinson etc.

 

[gopkrs]

Whatever we do, I hope we don't draft on upside. We need players that can play. I hope we draft football players throughout. Not players with upside so that by the time they are playing well, if they ever do, it will be time to pay them or let them go.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I really don't think the Packers have used a late round draft picks on a guy who excels at returning kicks but is questionable at the WR position. It looks very much like they just farm it out to who's ever available. That philosophy isn't working and is a big reason the special teams suck every year.

Another hidden but huge impact of a really good punt returner is that you will likely have some coaches taking more chances on 4th down, rather than risking a big punt return.

Make a stop on a 4th down and instead of a 10 yard punt return, you have a 40 yard change in field position. That's like recovering a fumble.

Makes me wonder how many teams use a roster spot and/or a draft pick just for returns, kickoffs or punts.

I think Desmond Howard was listed as a WR but was primarily used on kickoff returns, where he excelled. Not sure if he also returned punts.

IMO, it's unlikely a GM would use a draft pick solely for a returner. That said, I don't have any stats to prove or disprove.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Forgot about old Micah. Just looked Yeah he had 2 very good years in 2012-13. He was the predecessor to Cobby

He also would have been a great safety if the Packers used him properly. He certainly did well in Buffalo at S.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Whatever we do, I hope we don't draft on upside. We need players that can play. I hope we draft football players throughout. Not players with upside so that by the time they are playing well, if they ever do, it will be time to pay them or let them go.

"I hope we draft football players throughout." "I hope we don't draft on upside."

Addressing your first quote above, Gary was drafted, I think, based on his upside for pressures (sacks, hits, etc.). He was a solid DE at Michigan, but not a sack machine by any means. That didn't work out very well. Gary was a solid DE, but only recorded DD sacks twice, and they were like 10 or 12, maybe 13. And he appears to be fading after only his first contract.

As for the second quote, sometimes the BPA doesn't address an immediate need, but is overall a solid football player. That includes intangibles like leadership and being considered a good teammate. That's one reason drafting is at least as much art as it is science.

 

[gopkrs]

"I hope we draft football players throughout." "I hope we don't draft on upside."

Addressing your first quote above, Gary was drafted, I think, based on his upside for pressures (sacks, hits, etc.). He was a solid DE at Michigan, but not a sack machine by any means. That didn't work out very well. Gary was a solid DE, but only recorded DD sacks twice, and they were like 10 or 12, maybe 13. And he appears to be fading after only his first contract.

As for the second quote, sometimes the BPA doesn't address an immediate need, but is overall a solid football player. That includes intangibles like leadership and being considered a good teammate. That's one reason drafting is at least as much art as it is science.

I'll stick with football players. Just not any bad eggs. Don't want to draft a rah rah guy when there's a better football player for the taking

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'll stick with football players. Just not any bad eggs. Don't want to draft a rah rah guy when there's a better football player for the taking

Yeah I agree that playing football well is the first and most important attribute. Leadership and being a good teammate can be used to keep "bad eggs" off the roster.

 

[milani]

Makes me wonder how many teams use a roster spot and/or a draft pick just for returns, kickoffs or punts.

I think Desmond Howard was listed as a WR but was primarily used on kickoff returns, where he excelled. Not sure if he also returned punts.

IMO, it's unlikely a GM would use a draft pick solely for a returner. That said, I don't have any stats to prove or disprove.

That year the Packers used Desmond for punts. He had the 2 great returns against Frisco and another against the Bears. Originally, the Pack used Don Beebe for kickoffs that season and he returned one all the way at a soldier Field. But since we needed Beebe more in the passing game due to injuries to Robert Brooks and even Freeman, Holmgren decided to go with Desmond.
Howard did lineup at receiver a few times in 96. I recall the one time he cut his route too late and Favre's pass was picked.

 

[OldSchool101]

He also would have been a great safety if the Packers used him properly. He certainly did well in Buffalo at S.

Yes we had both him and Casey Hayward leave. If I recall they both went elsewhere and were immediate stars on their respective teams. I wanna say it was Chargers and Bills. Just shows the mismanagement of the Coordinator and Position Coached imo.

 

[OldSchool101]

Also if GB and Quay start sniffing anything close to $10Mil annual+ I’d go sign Devin Bush (market floating around $12Mil annual ) and let Quay walk.

 

[mradtke66]

I'll stick with football players. Just not any bad eggs. Don't want to draft a rah rah guy when there's a better football player for the taking

The problem with that is 1. Everyone is a projection. 2. Better football players is how you end end up with AJ Hawk. Good, never great player.

The later you pick, you’re stuck with more and more flawed players. I’d rather take a shot at a potential 10 sack DE than a backup, 2 down like backer who is a “better football player.” It’s seldom that black and white, of course.

 

[gopkrs]

The problem with that is 1. Everyone is a projection. 2. Better football players is how you end end up with AJ Hawk. Good, never great player.

The later you pick, you’re stuck with more and more flawed players. I’d rather take a shot at a potential 10 sack DE than a backup, 2 down like backer who is a “better football player.” It’s seldom that black and white, of course.

I don't agree with you. A back up 2 down linebacker? What are you talking about? I guess that's a projection? I'm sick of drafting development players? I guess I'd like to see that taken out of the formula. There are players throughout the draft that contribute. Take a chance on some of those. Not sure where you were going with Hawk. #5 in the whole damn draft. Anyway, that was a long time ago though we have a couple of comparables. And they were reaches that did not contribute to their teams as much as they should have for being that high of a pick. Pretty obvious the 2 I'm talking about. I'll watch and hope but I doubt we are through with reaching.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That year the Packers used Desmond for punts. He had the 2 great returns against Frisco and another against the Bears. Originally, the Pack used Don Beebe for kickoffs that season and he returned one all the way at a soldier Field. But since we needed Beebe more in the passing game due to injuries to Robert Brooks and even Freeman, Holmgren decided to go with Desmond.
Howard did lineup at receiver a few times in 96. I recall the one time he cut his route too late and Favre's pass was picked.

Thanks for the history lesson milani - it all comes back to me now. Howard was probably taken as a WR, didn't do much there, but was deadly on returns. I think he was the MVP when the Packers beat the Pats in the 96 SB.

At any rate, STs needs a solid returner.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes we had both him and Casey Hayward leave. If I recall they both went elsewhere and were immediate stars on their respective teams. I wanna say it was Chargers and Bills. Just shows the mismanagement of the Coordinator and Position Coached imo.

Good memory OS! Yes Hayward went to the Chargers and did very well.

It's ironic that the Packers seem to have chronic trouble finding good secondary payers, and they let two of their best walk away. Still have nightmares over the likes of Kevin King, Damarius Randall, Josh Jones (sp%, from Iowa), and Quentin Rollins. Those were some lousy picks, looking back from the luxury of hindsight.......

 

[milani]

Thanks for the history lesson milani - it all comes back to me now. Howard was probably taken as a WR, didn't do much there, but was deadly on returns. I think he was the MVP when the Packers beat the Pats in the 96 SB.

At any rate, STs needs a solid returner.

Howard fulfilled his role. Wolf did the amazing in piecing together many players from other teams who may only have had a few seasons left but they did what was needed.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't agree with you. A back up 2 down linebacker? What are you talking about? I guess that's a projection? I'm sick of drafting development players? I guess I'd like to see that taken out of the formula. There are players throughout the draft that contribute. Take a chance on some of those. Not sure where you were going with Hawk. #5 in the whole damn draft. Anyway, that was a long time ago though we have a couple of comparables. And they were reaches that did not contribute to their teams as much as they should have for being that high of a pick. Pretty obvious the 2 I'm talking about. I'll watch and hope but I doubt we are through with reaching.

I’m with you on this one. However my version comes with the fact that GB is still (might be for a long time with #10) in “Win Now” mode. Not to detract from your point, but we need upgrades NOW.

It’s ok to draft Lukas types in some seasons. However we all know the Packers rarely allow Rookies to play significant starter snaps. The only ones I can think of are ? Evan Williams? Edgerrin Cooper?

I think that’s what you are saying though right? Go draft a couple Evan Williams types. Medium high Floor but maybe sacrifice high Ceiling for more “medium high” ceiling that can contribute today?

 

[Heyjoe4]

Howard fulfilled his role. Wolf did the amazing in piecing together many players from other teams who may only have had a few seasons left but they did what was needed.

Good point milani about Ron Wolf's talent at finding relatively small, but missing pieces on a SB team. Makes me realize what a truly great GM he was.

 

[tynimiller]

Personally I don't hold hard qualms with our plan or approach to the draft, it is one of the ingredients which has steadily kept GB as one of the teams constantly in the hunt...have high level QB play, stay relatively healthy and this roster has continually been a worthy post-season team for a LONG time and I predict will continue to be.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't agree with you. A back up 2 down linebacker? What are you talking about? I guess that's a projection? I'm sick of drafting development players? I guess I'd like to see that taken out of the formula. There are players throughout the draft that contribute. Take a chance on some of those. Not sure where you were going with Hawk. #5 in the whole damn draft. Anyway, that was a long time ago though we have a couple of comparables. And they were reaches that did not contribute to their teams as much as they should have for being that high of a pick. Pretty obvious the 2 I'm talking about. I'll watch and hope but I doubt we are through with reaching.

Yeah the draft process, and succeeding at the draft, are elusive things. A good GM is one who gets more choices right than wrong.

And that's not limited to the draft. It includes FA, selecting UDFA, knowing the needs of all the other teams in the league and where a trade makes sense, looking for hidden talent on the current roster, and on and on.

GM is a big job and not for the faint of heart. While I think Wolf was the best GM the Packers ever had, Gluten has done a good job as well. He's gonna be truly challenged this offseason, with big needs at CB, DT, Edge, and OL/C.

Fortunately Gluten starts with a very talented team (OK, when healthy). I feel confident he can close some of these gaps and field a SB-contending team by September.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Personally I don't hold hard qualms with our plan or approach to the draft, it is one of the ingredients which has steadily kept GB as one of the teams constantly in the hunt...have high level QB play, stay relatively healthy and this roster has continually been a worthy post-season team for a LONG time and I predict will continue to be.

Yeah I'm not sure Gluten gets the credit he deserves for fielding very talented teams (putting injuries aside for the moment). We have had it good with the Packers for 30 plus years now.

The draft is a mix of science, art, and luck. The best GMs know how to cut through the wealth of data available on players - in the draft, UDFAs, FAs, trades and all the ways a player can be acquired, or let go - to build a SB-worthy team.

 

[OldSchool101]

The positions that can get more immediate results imo are Stack LB..off ball types. I’m not talking pure rushers at OLB, I’m talking read and react and the “blow up a play” types. We’ve had good success in GB there.

Also RB. As much as I like Lloyd let’s face it his injury status is baffling level. Just rare a guy stacks injury after injury. It’s time to count him as nothing more than a bonus RB. Heck you need that potential RB3-4 to supply when a RB injures. Here though let’s go draft a true RB that can offer some excitement and immediate production.

My idea would be RD5 J’Mari Taylor. He didn’t pass 1,000 until his 2024 season in the FCS level, but he broke it and transferred to The Virginia Cavaliers (Wicks territory) and posted 1000+ at the ACC level. He transitioned seamlessly and his final 2 seasons he posted over 2,200+ yards and 29 rushing TD’s. He’s about as close to an Aaron Jones type as you get. A slight 5’10” X 205lb RB with surprising power and somehow breaks tackles routinely. He’s a poor mans Jones with 4.4 speed though, as displayed in his recent 80 yard TD scamper. He’s got hands too, he’s a dual threat in the mold of Lloyd. Maybe not quite Tyrone Tracy Jr, but I was high on him in 2024 and he was an absolute steal in RD5. Tyrone similarly went under radar and had the ??? after converting positions. Yet an athlete is an athlete. Just look at the production from drafted RD4-5 on RB’s it’s a huge value area with immediate upside.